initial impressions of Dali zensor 3

[gasolin]

Not sure which model.

But may have been the..... Actually they look pretty similar so I can't say.

The ones down in Bristol on the end of some expensive kit sounded as bad as I've heard - they were £169 or so it said on the door.

The Concept 20s are a big step up in performance from the 2020s....even though it's "only" the cabinet that's changed.

I think i would get the 3020 instead of the concept 20

 

[Thompsonuxb]

It's interesting what people are saying about materials both for drivers and cabinets. I've heard people on this forum say they  won't go near metal dome tweeters but the Celestion 3 have metal tweeters and their treble is the sweetest and most naturally unforced I've heard (between Wharfedale diamond 220, Rega rs1 and Dali Zensor 3).?

Don't mistake audiophile physics for real physics despite the first being most prevalent in this niche hobby.?

You and this word audiophile...... *fool*
Go on then Vlad give us the real physics.

The weekend is upon us - say what you mean.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here go's.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

My suggestion to you is don't assess the Dali's with music you know and love but to go get something new, something you've not heard before.

Listen exclusively to the Dali's then after a week maybe put the old boxes on.

You may think they sound muddy.... Try it.

The petite 1994 Celestions are nothing like the 1966 hollow plywood crates Altec Valencias. *acute*

?

It still applys the Celestion have paper cones the Dali's have man made materials - if you can find a cross section diagram on the net you'll see what I mean.

The Dali's probably have denser plywood panels too.......

Epic.

the Dali 3 cabinets are made of MDF and the bass drivers cones are made out of wood fibres 

I'm being 'general' ......

I have not googled their composition but plywood, mdf.....prrrrft!

The cones have a resin..... I dunno, actually its not important it's man made and more rigid than paper.....right?

 

[Electro]

It's interesting what people are saying about materials both for drivers and cabinets. I've heard people on this forum say they won't go near metal dome tweeters but the Celestion 3 have metal tweeters and their treble is the sweetest and most naturally unforced I've heard (between Wharfedale diamond 220, Rega rs1 and Dali Zensor 3). The mid/ bass cone is probably 5.5 inches, the cabinets are small but the low end is agile and punchy, not particularly deep of course, but neither do they try and "fake" deep. The Regas, which I'm selling tomorrow, are small and light and sound small and light (albeit quite pleasant and refined sounding). It just seems to me they hit a real sweetly balanced speaker with the 3mkii and they go so well with the Marantz m-cr 603. By the way, some of these went for £28 the other day on Ebay! I feel like telling people to hunt some down and give them a listen just to confirm I'm not imagining things and that I'm madly sentimental about them.

You are not imagining anything the Celestion 3 mk2's sound very good indeed . *smile*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here go's.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

My suggestion to you is don't assess the Dali's with music you know and love but to go get something new, something you've not heard before.

Listen exclusively to the Dali's then after a week maybe put the old boxes on.

You may think they sound muddy.... Try it.

The petite 1994 Celestions are nothing like the 1966 hollow plywood crates Altec Valencias. *acute*

It still applys the Celestion have paper cones the Dali's have man made materials - if you can find a cross section diagram on the net you'll see what I mean.

The Dali's probably have denser plywood panels too.......

Epic.

the Dali 3 cabinets are made of MDF and the bass drivers cones are made out of wood fibres

I'm being 'general' ......

I have not googled their composition but plywood, mdf.....prrrrft!

The cones have a resin..... I dunno, actually its not important it's man made and more rigid than paper.....right?

going by what dali say that the cones are made up of paper plup + wood fibres

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here go's.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

My suggestion to you is don't assess the Dali's with music you know and love but to go get something new, something you've not heard before.

Listen exclusively to the Dali's then after a week maybe put the old boxes on.

You may think they sound muddy.... Try it.

The petite 1994 Celestions are nothing like the 1966 hollow plywood crates Altec Valencias. *acute*

?

It still applys the Celestion have paper cones the Dali's have man made materials - if you can find a cross section diagram on the net you'll see what I mean.

The Dali's probably have denser plywood panels too.......

Epic.

the Dali 3 cabinets are made of MDF and the bass drivers cones are made out of wood fibres?

I'm being 'general' ......

I have not googled their composition but plywood, mdf.....prrrrft!

The cones have a resin..... I dunno, actually its not important it's man made and more rigid than paper.....right?

going by what dali say that the  cones are made up of paper plup + wood fibres

?????..... *SCRATCH*

 

[Vladimir]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here go's.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

My suggestion to you is don't assess the Dali's with music you know and love but to go get something new, something you've not heard before.

Listen exclusively to the Dali's then after a week maybe put the old boxes on.

You may think they sound muddy.... Try it.

The petite 1994 Celestions are nothing like the 1966 hollow plywood crates Altec Valencias. *acute*

It still applys the Celestion have paper cones the Dali's have man made materials - if you can find a cross section diagram on the net you'll see what I mean.

The Dali's probably have denser plywood panels too.......

Epic.

the Dali 3 cabinets are made of MDF and the bass drivers cones are made out of wood fibres

I'm being 'general' ......

I have not googled their composition but plywood, mdf.....prrrrft!

The cones have a resin..... I dunno, actually its not important it's man made and more rigid than paper.....right?

going by what dali say that the cones are made up of paper plup + wood fibres

?????..... *SCRATCH*

Paper cones in stamped metal baskets, with ceramic magnets, inside MDF cabinets. Your idea of 'modernity'?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here go's.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

My suggestion to you is don't assess the Dali's with music you know and love but to go get something new, something you've not heard before.

Listen exclusively to the Dali's then after a week maybe put the old boxes on.

You may think they sound muddy.... Try it.

The petite 1994 Celestions are nothing like the 1966 hollow plywood crates Altec Valencias. *acute*

It still applys the Celestion have paper cones the Dali's have man made materials - if you can find a cross section diagram on the net you'll see what I mean.

The Dali's probably have denser plywood panels too.......

Epic.

the Dali 3 cabinets are made of MDF and the bass drivers cones are made out of wood fibres

I'm being 'general' ......

I have not googled their composition but plywood, mdf.....prrrrft!

The cones have a resin..... I dunno, actually its not important it's man made and more rigid than paper.....right?

going by what dali say that the cones are made up of paper plup + wood fibres

?????..... *SCRATCH*

Paper cones in stamped metal baskets, with ceramic magnets, inside MDF cabinets. Your idea of 'modernity'?

just replying to post 44 do not worry not gone mad *wacko*

 

[unhalfbricking]

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here goes.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

This more or less perfectly describes the difference between my old B&W DM110s (from 1985) and my current KEF Q-300s. The B&Ws had a big, easy, room-filling sound with a mid-rangey bass and soft treble. As you describe, the lower-mid range had a warmth to it and connected seamlessly to the bass. The cabinets were large and the sound almost seemed to radiate sideways out of the boxes.

By contrast the KEF Q-300s are a far more 'technical' beast with bags more detail in the upper-mids and treble and a deep, grunty bass, but the two ends of the spectrum don't seem to tie up as seamlessly as the old B&Ws. The KEFS are also far more directional than the B&Ws with a definite 'sweet spot' where the bass really kicks in.

Both speakers have their strengths, but overall I take the expressiveness and massively superior detail and soundstage of the newer KEFs over the older, gentler, more natural B&Ws. It's the difference between a new pair of running spikes and an old pair of slippers!

 

[drummerman]

... It's the difference between a new pair of running spikes and an old pair of slippers!

But which one would most folks probably want to spend more time in?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here go's.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

My suggestion to you is don't assess the Dali's with music you know and love but to go get something new, something you've not heard before.

Listen exclusively to the Dali's then after a week maybe put the old boxes on.

You may think they sound muddy.... Try it.

The petite 1994 Celestions are nothing like the 1966 hollow plywood crates Altec Valencias. *acute*

?

It still applys the Celestion have paper cones the Dali's have man made materials - if you can find a cross section diagram on the net you'll see what I mean.

The Dali's probably have denser plywood panels too.......

Epic.

the Dali 3 cabinets are made of MDF and the bass drivers cones are made out of wood fibres?

?

I'm being 'general' ......

I have not googled their composition but plywood, mdf.....prrrrft!

The cones have a resin..... I dunno, actually its not important it's man made and more rigid than paper.....right?

going by what dali say that the  cones are made up of paper plup + wood fibres

?????..... *SCRATCH*

Paper cones in stamped metal baskets, with ceramic magnets, inside MDF cabinets. Your idea of 'modernity'?

What!?

So the paper pulp and wood fibre is held together with what?

Spit!

Honestly sometimes I have to wonder with you guys.

 

[Vladimir]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here go's.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

My suggestion to you is don't assess the Dali's with music you know and love but to go get something new, something you've not heard before.

Listen exclusively to the Dali's then after a week maybe put the old boxes on.

You may think they sound muddy.... Try it.

The petite 1994 Celestions are nothing like the 1966 hollow plywood crates Altec Valencias. *acute*

It still applys the Celestion have paper cones the Dali's have man made materials - if you can find a cross section diagram on the net you'll see what I mean.

The Dali's probably have denser plywood panels too.......

Epic.

the Dali 3 cabinets are made of MDF and the bass drivers cones are made out of wood fibres

I'm being 'general' ......

I have not googled their composition but plywood, mdf.....prrrrft!

The cones have a resin..... I dunno, actually its not important it's man made and more rigid than paper.....right?

going by what dali say that the cones are made up of paper plup + wood fibres

?????..... *SCRATCH*

Paper cones in stamped metal baskets, with ceramic magnets, inside MDF cabinets. Your idea of 'modernity'?

What!?

So the paper pulp and wood fibre is held together with what?

Glue and a press. Such innovative technology, isn't it?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

This maybe a bit controversial.....but here go's.

Older designs 'radiate' bass the boxes resonate more and are actually involved in the overall sound.

The bass is 'coloured' gives a sense of a 'warmer' fuller bass that reinforces and under pins the lower midrange.

Newer designs use stiffer more rigid enclosures better internal bracing. The bass is pushed via the driver more without the 'box resonance' similar to the midrange - you actually get a more accurate bass aka 'leaner bass' without bloom.

My suggestion to you is don't assess the Dali's with music you know and love but to go get something new, something you've not heard before.

Listen exclusively to the Dali's then after a week maybe put the old boxes on.

You may think they sound muddy.... Try it.

The petite 1994 Celestions are nothing like the 1966 hollow plywood crates Altec Valencias. *acute*

It still applys the Celestion have paper cones the Dali's have man made materials - if you can find a cross section diagram on the net you'll see what I mean.

The Dali's probably have denser plywood panels too.......

Epic.

the Dali 3 cabinets are made of MDF and the bass drivers cones are made out of wood fibres

I'm being 'general' ......

I have not googled their composition but plywood, mdf.....prrrrft!

The cones have a resin..... I dunno, actually its not important it's man made and more rigid than paper.....right?

going by what dali say that the cones are made up of paper plup + wood fibres

?????..... *SCRATCH*

Paper cones in stamped metal baskets, with ceramic magnets, inside MDF cabinets. Your idea of 'modernity'?

What!?

So the paper pulp and wood fibre is held together with what?

Spit!

Honestly sometimes I have to wonder with you guys.

I am not sure resin I think it does not say I am only answering your question what they were made out off

 

[robdmarsh]

Hi Electro. It's interesting that you admire the old Celestion 3 mkii and you have PMC PB1i listed in your profile, a speaker which has an eye-watering price tag! I'm thinking of a small floor stander such PMC gb1i or Spendor A3 both of which can be found on used market (at not quite such buttock clenching prices!) Do you know either of these and do you think they would be a match for Marantz all-in-one? Also, I can only afford 10 to 15cm space behind them. Would this be a problem?

 

[Vladimir]

Does it look old and outdated?

 

[robdmarsh]

Does it look old and outdated?

Sure.... but it definitely doesn't sound that way!

 

[Vladimir]

The stamped metal basket with glued on extra magnet Dali driver looks far more outdated to me. Glass fiber reinforced injection molded ABS plastic baskets are used in German flagship speakers today (example Canton). Celestion did it in a budget speaker in 1993. That's because they make speakers for musicians, studios, arenas, events, hi-fi, everything. They are the authority on speakers and drivers Dali can only dream to be some day. Now if we compared them to Dynaudio, JBL, Seas, Scan-Speak, Vifa, Eminence etc. we can say it's a fair comparison.

Anyway. Thompson's theory that you should get used to "modern sound" because the Celestions are an outdated build compared to the Dalis is total BS.

 

[robdmarsh]

Ok, fair point, though I'm no sound engineer. I do know that Celestion have a pretty rich heritage in speaker design for various applications.

 

[chebby]

Ok, fair point, though I'm no sound engineer. I do know that Celestion have a pretty rich heritage in speaker design for various applications.

Because they aren't making 'hi-fi' speakers any more we think they have disappeared. The reverse is true. They have a big factory in Ipswich making PA speakers for this lot for a start ...

 

[Electro]

Hi Electro. It's interesting that you admire the old Celestion 3 mkii and you have PMC PB1i listed in your profile, a speaker which has an eye-watering price tag! I'm thinking of a small floor stander such PMC gb1i or Spendor A3 both of which can be found on used market (at not quite such buttock clenching prices!) Do you know either of these and do you think they would be a match for Marantz all-in-one? Also, I can only afford 10 to 15cm space behind them. Would this be a problem?

Even after so many years have passed I still have fond memories of them, I bought them for my wife and they were used with a very cheap Hitachi all in one unit at first and they sounded surprisingly good, then I bought her a Philips Cd player and a Nad 302 amp and they then sounded incredibly detailed and musical with very good imaging , good dynamics too .

I would think the Marantz all in one would be a good match and drive them well .

I don't think that the PMC GB1i would be the best match, they need a good stong amp to make them sing and the Spendors might be bass light fot your taste.

The PMC model I would recommend to replace the Celestions is the PMC TB2i standmounts the are an easy load at 8ohms and quite efficient at 90db so the Marantz will not be out of it's depth .

The TB2i is a superb loudspeaker that if you decide to upgrade you front end at a later date will just get better and better with the upgrades, I have heard these on the end of an expensive 300wpc into 8 ohms Bryston 4B SST amp and the bass power, detail and dynamics the TB2i can deliver is astonishing.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The stamped metal basket with glued on extra magnet Dali driver looks far more outdated to me. Glass fiber reinforced injection molded ABS plastic baskets are used in German flagship speakers today (example Canton). Celestion did it in a budget speaker in 1993. That's because they make speakers for musicians, studios, arenas, events, hi-fi, everything. They are the authority on speakers and drivers Dali can only dream to be some day. Now if we compared them to Dynaudio, JBL, Seas, Scan-Speak, Vifa, Eminence etc. we can say it's a fair comparison.

Anyway. Thompson's theory that you should get used to "modern sound" because the Celestions are an outdated build compared to the Dalis is total BS. 

And finally...... How long as that been welling up in you.... *ROFL*

What did I say?

Point out were I talk of 'outdated' I swear you and your fake know it all..... wiki jockey..... how determined are you to ruin this thread.

Keep reading me Vlad.....

 

[robdmarsh]

Thanks a lot for that Electro. I'll keep my eye out for TB2i.

 

[Vladimir]

I did grin at "wiki jockey". *biggrin*

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I did grin at "wiki jockey". *biggrin*

I often wonder if you think you fool anyone.....

 

[Vladimir]

I did grin at "wiki jockey". *biggrin*

I often wonder if you think you fool anyone.....

I'm glad I'm on your mind often. Bit weird though.