initial impressions of Dali zensor 3

[robdmarsh]

Well, I finally got some Zensor 3s in my quest to find something even better than my ancient Celestion 3mkii. I know, you might ask if I I like the Celestions so much, why bother? I suppose it's a bigger scale and more bass weight I'm after. Anyway they are matched with Marantz m-cr603 and Audioquest flx slip 14 guage cables.

So early impressions are not what I expected. I thought I might get boomy bass and overhang as I can't spare that much room behind them. Well, I definitely haven't got that. It's early days but what I've heard so far is sound with a hole in the middle compared to the Celestions. The treble is very detailed, though to my ears thin sounding (trumpets in some jazz tracks even sound a bit painful) and a bit separate from the other frequencies.The bass is there but the mids are not really present, at least not yet. They sound smooth and give the impression they've not really woken up. The character to the music I love (on the Celestions) is not coming through... yet. I haven't got the integrated punch of my other speakers. It's weird, I expected maybe an unruly sound from reading reviews comments. I'm wondering if they need a more capable and powerful amplifier and if the Marantz is just great match with the mkii. They are 2nd hand but a perfect example and I'm pretty sure they're not run in so that's what I'm going to do over the next few days.

It'll be interesting to see if I grow to love them... or not.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Do give yourself time to adjust to a modern speaker.......

 

[CnoEvil]

You may need to allow them to "break in". If possible, leave them on for a few days and if out of the house, turn them up loud with a big variety of music.

 

[gasolin]

I feel the zensor 1's get to bright with flx slip 14/4

What amp are you using?

Are your speaker on some stands like the isoacoustics stands?

 

[Al ears]

Do give yourself time to adjust to a modern speaker.......

Then look for something else?

But seriously I doubt they are going to break in any more. You could try playing with the placement of the speakers.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

The Dali 3s are a good speaker for the money they are detailed in the treble I never found them to be over the top on the bass but I did find with them that they can get mixed up with the bass a bit when the speakers are pushed a little but it's only a small speaker at the end of the day they can handle 125 watts but I would not like to push them that far . Try stands move the speakers around if you can and find there sweet spot but if they are secondhand I would of thought they would be run-in by now but Dali speakers normally work well with marantz amplifiers anyway

 

[robdmarsh]

To the guy that said give yourself time to adjust to a modern speaker.... I think there might be something in this but I'm not exactly sure what it is. If old speakers sounded just softer or warmer then I could understand. It's not even true to say that my old speakers are putting out less detail. At the moment this is simply not the case.

I know that so much of this is down to taste and personal preference and what one is used to, but at the moment I would defy anyone to listen to these two side by side in my set up and say that the Celestions were not better... But I'm going to give the Dali a chance and stick with them for at least a month. I got them for a pretty good price so if they're not for me then on they go!

 

[robdmarsh]

Just to add, I've got pretty good basic stands - Target Audio, and listening height is right with a good triangular shape to listening position.

 

[robdmarsh]

I do think you have a point here Thompsonuxb. I've been pretty critical about various modern budget speakers I've heard and even not so budget. What do you think are the attributes of a modern speaker vs older models?Listening to my Dalis right now one thing I would say they are is smoother, but to my ear not in a good way. This is especially surprising as they are reviewed as having an exciting sound.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

just looked on the dali web site the dali 3s are 6 ohm speakers so they will draw a bit more power from you amp then 8 ohms speakers would

 

[robdmarsh]

Thanks, Blacksabbath25, that's a good point. I was wondering if that would make a difference. They do sound a bit less loud at the same volume than my old speakers.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Thanks, Blacksabbath25, that's a good point. I was wondering if that would make a difference. They do sound a bit less loud at the same volume than my old speakers.

i looked up your marantz m- cr603 as well thats 6 ohms too but not sure what this will do if anything but i myself learned that my speakers are 4 ohms but thought they were 8 ohms speakers but anyway just means that the amp has to work a little harder as it draws more power and meant to be a little louder anyway i am sure someone will correct me if i got what i said wrong

 

[chebby]

Don't totally dismiss the possibility that the Celestions are still going to sound better than the Zensors after running in.

 

[DCC]

That's considered the break-in period, correct? *biggrin*

I experienced similar on my last speaker change out. Yep the edge I was hearing/feeling in the mids and uppers was painful...and of course it shook my consumer confidence . I beared through it though and after break-in it's night and day. The 3s have a good rep, let'm work for a while and they may well sweeten to what you imagined. That's a cool moment when you're listening and suddenly realise, "hey....I am loving what I'm hearing!!!"

 

[Vladimir]

Here are some measurements of the Dali Zensor 1. Might be the case the 3 has the same forced HF and midrange peaks.

Hifitest.de

Stereophile

 

[Vladimir]

Do give yourself time to adjust to a modern speaker.......

What "modernity" exists in the Dalis that is absent in the Celestions? Do elaborate.

These date from 1993 and probably give you nausea with their outdated sound.

 

[Electro]

I owned a pair of Celestion 3 mk2's many years ago and they are very good speakers, I used the with a Nad 302 integrated and they sounded very well balanced and musical .

It may just be a case that the Celestion's sound better than the Dali's, after all there is no reason why they shouldn't they were and still are an outstanding speaker .*smile*.

http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/celestion-3-16.html

 

[Cass]

I’ve had my Zensor 3’s for five months now (paired with a NAD C326BEE) and I’m not overly impressed, despite the glowing reviews you read about them. They’re budget speakers and they often sound like it.

Positives: good, non-boomy bass; ability to fill a large area with sound.

Negatives: harshness and somewhat “jumbled” sound in upper-mids; sibilance on vocals.

It seems to me that people who buy Zensor 3’s usually don’t keep them very long – I think that group will soon include me. It’s a pity because I like the bass and the “reach” of the sound, but I feel that with these speakers I’m not enjoying music as much as I should be.

 

[robdmarsh]

Thanks for the graphs Vladimir. What do the red, blue and black lines represent?

 

[robdmarsh]

I know what you mean Cass about that treble harshness and mids muddle. I'm hoping this might get better. What other speakers have you had that you liked?

 

[Cass]

I know what you mean Cass about that treble harshness and mids muddle. I'm hoping this might get better. What other speakers have you had that you liked?

Only had budget speakers so far. My first were JPW Sonatas, which I really liked. Replaced them with Mordaunt Short 902i's, which were pretty good though bass was overpowering with my NAD amp. The Dalis were intended as an upgrade to the MS902i. In some ways they are - better-controlled bass, and perhaps a little more mid-range detail - but I now wish I'd spent a bit more and achieved a bigger step up in quality.

 

[Vladimir]

Thanks for the graphs Vladimir. What do the red, blue and black lines represent?

In the first graph, the different lines show the frequency response on and off axis. Further off axis listening has less bright high frequency. More direct listening on tweeter axis has more high frequency. If you tilt the speakers to be away from you slightly, you will get less bright sound.

In the second one, blue line is the FR of both drivers, the red is the port tuning, the black one being the resulting frequency response of both the drivers and the port.

This is the FR of the Zensor 5.1 system. The purple trace is for the Zensor 5 floorstanders, blue is the sub, green is the center and red are the Zensor 1.

There is an obvious hole in the midrange and harsh beaming high frequency. I think it's logical to consider the same voicing went into the Zensor 3. Looks fairly consistent thing in the Zensor range.

No breaking in or burining in will solve what is factory designed.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Thanks for the graphs Vladimir. What do the red, blue and black lines represent?

In the first graph, the different lines show the frequency response on and off axis. Further off axis listening has less bright high frequency. More direct listening on tweeter axis has more high frequency. If you tilt the speakers to be away from you slightly, you will get less bright sound.

In the second one, blue line is the FR of both drivers, the red is the port tuning, the black one being the resulting frequency response of both the drivers and the port.

This is the FR of the Zensor 5.1 system. The purple trace is for the Zensor 5 floorstanders, blue is the sub, green is the center and red are the Zensor 1.

There is an obvious hole in the midrange and harsh beaming high frequency. I think it's logical to consider the same voicing went into the Zensor 3. Looks fairly consistent thing in the Zensor range.

No breaking in or burining in will solve what is factory designed.

the dali 3s use the same bass driver as the zensor 5s floor standing speakers the bass drivers on the zendor 1s are smaller bass driver so not the same drivers

 

[Vladimir]

I managed to find one measurement of the Zensor 3s. A Hi-Fi mag in Israel did a shoot out among standmounts with included FR measurements.

Frequency response: the result is relatively balanced, slightly inclined to the bright side, the speaker falls relatively low bass but do it in moderation.

Frequency response Off Axis: scatter sound a lot better than I expected, you can even listen to a 45-degree angled.

Impedance: Speaker easy for propulsion (minimum 4.8Ω) impedance relatively stable, the Port of the region aimed at 47Hz.

So, having the Z3 toed looking ahead at 90 degrees and not at the listener, would calm down the brightness.

Looks like they are designed to be listened off axis for a 5.1 setup. Not having very deep bass is simply because these are meant to work with a sub in 5.1. IMO it's good that Dali didn't do the nasty trick of boosting the 100Hz upper bass in order to fake deep bass. What is there is real.

 

[gasolin]

Thanks for the graphs Vladimir. What do the red, blue and black lines represent?

In the first graph, the different lines show the frequency response on and off axis. Further off axis listening has less bright high frequency. More direct listening on tweeter axis has more high frequency. If you tilt the speakers to be away from you slightly, you will get less bright sound.

In the second one, blue line is the FR of both drivers, the red is the port tuning, the black one being the resulting frequency response of both the drivers and the port.

This is the FR of the Zensor 5.1 system. The purple trace is for the Zensor 5 floorstanders, blue is the sub, green is the center and red are the Zensor 1.

There is an obvious hole in the midrange and harsh beaming high frequency. I think it's logical to consider the same voicing went into the Zensor 3. Looks fairly consistent thing in the Zensor range.

No breaking in or burining in will solve what is factory designed.

the dali 3s use the same bass driver as the zensor 5s floor standing speakers the bass drivers on the zendor 1s are smaller bass driver so not the same drivers

Not true the zensor 1 bass is the same as the zensor 5 all 5.25"

The zensor 3 has the same bass as zensor 7 all 7"