If I were to upgrade....

ScubaCollie

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Dec 4, 2020
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Have just been having some thought running through my head......

I purchased a Marantz PM50 on ebay around 6 years ago for £81.45 🤣 and it works fantartic and sounds really great (to me), however im in the process of installing some new speaker wire in the walls to relocate the speakers to a more suitable location.

I've also got some old Mission 733 Floor Standers 🤣 but again they sound nice (to me).

I would like some more base so I've got my eyes open for some Mission 753's on ebay, but not many quality ones on there....

Any other suggestions? That will be suitable with an Amp from that era? (PM50 was around in 1989.....).

Also just looking on the Marantz website and to get another 70w 8ohms Amp I would be looking at the PM8006 at £1299.00!!!!?? I may as well just stick with the PM50 I got for £81.00!🤣
 

ScubaCollie

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shadders

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I've been looking at these Mission Zx 5's but it states they are Home Cinema speakers? 🤔


As I've been happy with the warm sounding Mission 733's I've been using over the last few years I'm thinking of staying with Mission, but to upgrade to a better quality speaker, these would be a definite upgrade on the Mission 733's?
Hi,
I would ignore the Home Cinema attribute. The Mission web site states nothing about them being home cinema design or usage. In the end, listen to them, and if they are the best sounding for you, then buy them.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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ScubaCollie

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Hi,
I would ignore the Home Cinema attribute. The Mission web site states nothing about them being home cinema design or usage. In the end, listen to them, and if they are the best sounding for you, then buy them.

Regards,
Shadders.
I see the above Missions recommend an Amp of between 30-200 Watts.

My Marantz PM50 has 70 Watts (from what I've found on line as its a 32 year old amp!!).

Therefore my Amp should be OK to run that?

However I also looked at the Monitor Audio Silver 500 and they recommend an amp of 80 Watts - 250 Watts.....


And then I read that the Amp should be twice the power of the speakers max Watts to avois clipping......

That would mean I need an Amp of 400 Watts and even a 2.3k Rotel RA-1592MKII is only 340 Watts into 4 ohms....???

I believe My PM50 is 70 Watts into 8ohms?? does that mean I'm limited to those Missions above otherwise I risk blowing the speakers/clipping?

The room is L shaped with the bottom of the L being Approx 16 ft x 14 ft but then the tail of the L being around 100ft long.....
 
Last edited:
I see the above Missions recommend an Amp of between 30-200 Watts.

My Marantz PM50 has 70 Watts (from what I've found on line as its a 32 year old amp!!).

Therefore my Amp should be OK to run that?

However I also looked at the Monitor Audio Silver 500 and they recommend an amp of 80 Watts - 250 Watts.....


And then I read that the Amp should be twice the power of the speakers max Watts to avois clipping......

That would mean I need an Amp of 400 Watts and even a 2.3k Rotel RA-1592MKII is only 340 Watts into 4 ohms....???

I believe My PM50 is 70 Watts into 8ohms?? does that mean I'm limited to those Missions above otherwise I risk blowing the speakers/clipping?

The room is L shaped with the bottom of the L being Approx 16 ft x 14 ft but then the tail of the L being around 100ft long.....
Why the need for large font and bold?
What you read is wrong....
 

plastic penguin

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Apr 28, 2008
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I see the above Missions recommend an Amp of between 30-200 Watts.

My Marantz PM50 has 70 Watts (from what I've found on line as its a 32 year old amp!!).

Therefore my Amp should be OK to run that?

However I also looked at the Monitor Audio Silver 500 and they recommend an amp of 80 Watts - 250 Watts.....


And then I read that the Amp should be twice the power of the speakers max Watts to avois clipping......

That would mean I need an Amp of 400 Watts and even a 2.3k Rotel RA-1592MKII is only 340 Watts into 4 ohms....???

I believe My PM50 is 70 Watts into 8ohms?? does that mean I'm limited to those Missions above otherwise I risk blowing the speakers/clipping?

The room is L shaped with the bottom of the L being Approx 16 ft x 14 ft but then the tail of the L being around 100ft long.....
I personally wouldn't consider the Rotel. It's a very good amp but very different from your 30-odd year old Marantz. I would suggest - this is only a suggestion - perhaps looking at a Arcam from the Alpha range. They were produced from the mid-90s to the early 2000s, but you'll notice a pleasant upgrade in sound. And it'll have a similar tonal balance to the Marantz: Smooth delivery but better detailed.
However... there's a caveat. IMO any amp or other component over 15 years old will be risky as you don't know whether the previous owner(s) have looked after it, how often it's been used etc etc.
 

shadders

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Nov 19, 2009
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I see the above Missions recommend an Amp of between 30-200 Watts.

My Marantz PM50 has 70 Watts (from what I've found on line as its a 32 year old amp!!).

Therefore my Amp should be OK to run that?

However I also looked at the Monitor Audio Silver 500 and they recommend an amp of 80 Watts - 250 Watts.....
Hi,
The Missions lowest impedance is 3.4ohms, they are rated at 4ohms, and have a sensitivity of 91dB. So for normal domestic listening levels the Marantz PM50 should be acceptable. If you start to listen at high sound levels, then you will need an amplifier with a sufficient power supply for a 4ohm load.

Without the impedance curve for the ZX-5's, then it is difficult to determine with any accuracy if the 3.4ohms minimum is a sharp dip at the high frequency or low frequency, and wider dip at which ?? frequency.

For the Monitor Audio Silver 500 they are 90dB, 8ohms yet their minimum impedance is 3.1 ohms at 2.45kHz. This extra information means that since there is minimal sound energy at 2.45kHz, that the dip to 3.1ohms is not an issue. Yet the state an 80watts amplifier minimum. This is odd. So i would ask someone who owns them or a dealer if a 70watt amplifier is sufficient, as the numbers show that 70watts should be sufficient for normal domestic listening levels.

Regards,
Shadders.
 

ScubaCollie

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Dec 4, 2020
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Hi
Hi,
The Missions lowest impedance is 3.4ohms, they are rated at 4ohms, and have a sensitivity of 91dB. So for normal domestic listening levels the Marantz PM50 should be acceptable. If you start to listen at high sound levels, then you will need an amplifier with a sufficient power supply for a 4ohm load.

Without the impedance curve for the ZX-5's, then it is difficult to determine with any accuracy if the 3.4ohms minimum is a sharp dip at the high frequency or low frequency, and wider dip at which ?? frequency.

For the Monitor Audio Silver 500 they are 90dB, 8ohms yet their minimum impedance is 3.1 ohms at 2.45kHz. This extra information means that since there is minimal sound energy at 2.45kHz, that the dip to 3.1ohms is not an issue. Yet the state an 80watts amplifier minimum. This is odd. So i would ask someone who owns them or a dealer if a 70watt amplifier is sufficient, as the numbers show that 70watts should be sufficient for normal domestic listening levels.

Regards,
Shadders.
Hi Shadders thank you for the above detailed explanation, I'm a real newbie to Hifi therefore I don't have a clue about what's compatible with what.

Therefore both the Mission and the MA should be fine running from my Amp under normal listening levels?

And if I wanted to turn them up really loud I would need to purchase another Amplifier?
 

nopiano

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Just a note of caution about an amplifier from 1989. It won’t be like new, and quite possibly some sort of failure is imminent.

For reference, I have a Marantz PM-44 from c. 1993 and though it sounds ok, it is starting to crackle and cut out. Both these can probably be sorted with a service, but components may need replacing. I’d not be too confident about how long yours will continue to perform at all, and it may already be somewhat below its original performance.
 
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ScubaCollie

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Just a note of caution about an amplifier from 1989. It won’t be like new, and quite possibly some sort of failure is imminent.

For reference, I have a Marantz PM-44 from c. 1993 and though it sounds ok, it is starting to crackle and cut out. Both these can probably be sorted with a service, but components may need replacing. I’d not be too confident about how long yours will continue to perform at all, and it may already be somewhat below its original performance.
Hi mate a guy at work performed some type of miracle on it last year please see my post here https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/newbie-advice-needed.121849/

It's running lovely (touch wood), no crackles or anything and has such a lovely smooth warm sound, however that's another reason I want to choose a decent set of speakers now as an investment for when I upgrade the amp in the future.
 

shadders

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Nov 19, 2009
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Hi


Hi Shadders thank you for the above detailed explanation, I'm a real newbie to Hifi therefore I don't have a clue about what's compatible with what.

Therefore both the Mission and the MA should be fine running from my Amp under normal listening levels?

And if I wanted to turn them up really loud I would need to purchase another Amplifier?
Hi,
For the ZX-5 with 91dB sensitivity, then for 70watts will produce 109dB SPL. The issue may be that the current required due to the 4ohm rating may mean that the amplifier has insufficient capability to sustain this power requirement. Without the impedance curve, no definitive judgement can be made.

Yet, if you are listening at 100dB SPL this is a disco at 1metre :


The 100dB will require 8watts from the amplifier. At this power level requirement, the 4ohm rating should not be a problem.

Similar for the Monitor Audio's, yet they are rated at 8ohms, (90dB/W), which will require 10watts for 100dB SPL. The current requirement if they truly are 8ohms is less, although they have a 3.1ohm dip at 2.45kHz. The 80watts minimum is an odd figure specified.

I would expect that the amplifier is OK to drive the speakers.

Regards,
Shadders.
 

nopiano

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Hi mate a guy at work performed some type of miracle on it last year please see my post here https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/newbie-advice-needed.121849/

It's running lovely (touch wood), no crackles or anything and has such a lovely smooth warm sound, however that's another reason I want to choose a decent set of speakers now as an investment for when I upgrade the amp in the future.
Fair enough. I’m afraid I didn’t connect the two. Obviously you should be ok for a few years, fingers crossed.
 
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amormusic

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Feb 24, 2016
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Hey fella,

My advice is basic and you probably already know this anyway, but just in case....

If you are installing the speaker wire directly into your walls, make sure you have left enough spare wire at the point they exit the wall to bring the speakers into the room, so they are not near the walls. They sound much better further away from the edge.

Also, be aware that different speakers have the terminals at different heights - some are at the top and some at the bottom. I don't know where yours are currently.

You should allow a good bit extra at the point it comes out of wall to move the speaker and to also future proof for you changing your speakers if that's the intention.
 
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ScubaCollie

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Hey fella,

My advice is basic and you probably already know this anyway, but just in case....

If you are installing the speaker wire directly into your walls, make sure you have left enough spare wire at the point they exit the wall to bring the speakers into the room, so they are not near the walls. They sound much better further away from the edge.

Also, be aware that different speakers have the terminals at different heights - some are at the top and some at the bottom. I don't know where yours are currently.

You should allow a good bit extra at the point it comes out of wall to move the speaker and to also future proof for you changing your speakers if that's the intention.
Many Thanks Amormusic will definitely take that into consideration in the morning when I'm doing it mate! 😊👍
 

Gray

Well-known member
An option would be to fit wallplates, then future wall-to- speaker leads could be any length you need. (Though purists would want to avoid the extra plug / terminals involved and keep continuous wire).
 
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shadders

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An option would be to fit wallplates, then future wall-to- speaker leads could be any length you need. (Though purists would want to avoid the extra plug / terminals involved and keep continuous wire).
Hi,
In a previous house, i installed plates are the hifi end and ran biwire (QED79 and twin core + earth) to plates where the home cinema speakers were, so i could plug them in and move them once the film was over.

People often claim that live concerts sound the best ?. Do those connections to the speakers for the PA include just a single connection (either end) to the speakers ?

Are the speaker connectors Speakon and are they the best ?

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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RobGardner

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I will start by saying I don’t have personal experience of any of your kit. I can say that speaker positioning, room acoustics, room construction , electrical supply can make a huge difference. Your existing kit may be all you need. Careful placement of speakers, a clean electrical supply to you amp great interconnects and away you go. I would say that the musical presentation of hifi has changed over the years and you need to be clear what you want your system to sound like before you start spending money. Try reading between the lines of hifi reviews to understand if what the reviewer is describing is something you are looking for. Understand what you have got and what it sounds like, Maybe, if all you want is more bass you should be looking for something less hifi and more disco!
So far I have only had positive experiences of buying used hifi, don’t rule this out, particularly if you have a local dealer with a quick churn of used kit. Borrow kit from friends, have a hifi evening when they bring around a pair of speakers or an amp or speaker cables, interconnects or any other hifi goodies to contrast and compare. Don’f be afraid to experiment with anything. I have run my kit with granite chopping boards underneath, on top and underneath and on top. Same for my speakers. I have taken the top cover off of an amp/ CD player/ Bluray player ( after unplugging and making sure everything is safe) and stuck sound/ vibration absorbing bitumen film on to the flat surfaces. I have made acoustic panels from mfd cut to size, mineral wool and fabric. All I am saying is there are a lot of things that may get you where you want to be without spending a lot of money. I do recognise that there is a limit to tweaking, but it can sometimes deliver as much of an upgrade as just changing a bit of kit.
Should you simply buy a new bit of kit, just remember to keep on tweaking to get the best out of it. No matter how much you spend, room acoustics will have the final say!
 
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