Hush Media PCs

[Alec]

[quote user="fr0g"][quote user="al7478"]Thanks john - no idea about Apple TV so ill have a look. fr0g - Windows doesnt play with flac without tweakes either tho. But you have made me think, and ive just realised flac isnt recognised by nero, and i dont think apple lossless is either. Now, i dont often use it nowadays, but i do need to make the odd cd or data dvd. So that leads me to think that id be better of using a pc to rip to flac then rip separately in high quality mp3, or jsut find a prog thatll do Good Quality mp3 batch conversion from flac.[/quote]

Windows supports FLAC if you don't use the awful WMP program. I use Winamp.
Pretty sure Nero works ok with FLAC too (maybe need a plugin). But I use free software to do everything that nero does anyway.[/quote]

Good point well made actually (but wouldnt the same be true of a mac?). Just a point of interest, i once thought you didnt like the sound of wmp, but then we established it sounds the same as winamp et al, i went back to it. Not sure what you dont like about it, but I've not found anything else objectionable i dont think.

 

[Alec]

3 replies in a row to my own thread! Anyway, I've emailed this PC shop I might use to ask if they can take a look at my current pc to see if what i want can be done with it (i hear some dells can be hard to expand), as i figured that would give me what i want at much less cost than the whole new machine they have quoted me for. However, I'm still interested in the mac mini idea. I've satisfied myself that i can get everyhting in, and ill have a pic of my setup for peoples reference just as soon as i can. whether i go with the mac now depends on A) can i make playlists on my pc and somehow move them over, and otherwise control the content of the Mini just with an ethernet lead (I'd rather not go wireless), using Apple Remote Desktop. I could transfer my current music over via ethernet or external HDD, and connect to the telly with a VGA-Scart adaptor? I'd rip in Apple lossless, and try to have copies on the main pc (but just as a backup measure). I'd worry about any conversion to other formats later, but having a backup of my files on the main pc would help there, or jsut backing them up on external hdd. Meh. Theres loadsa backup methods so im not sweatin' that. My Formatting Worked WHOOHOO!

 

[fr0g]

[quote user="al7478"][quote user="fr0g"][quote user="al7478"]Thanks john - no idea about Apple TV so ill have a look. fr0g - Windows doesnt play with flac without tweakes either tho. But you have made me think, and ive just realised flac isnt recognised by nero, and i dont think apple lossless is either. Now, i dont often use it nowadays, but i do need to make the odd cd or data dvd. So that leads me to think that id be better of using a pc to rip to flac then rip separately in high quality mp3, or jsut find a prog thatll do Good Quality mp3 batch conversion from flac.[/quote]

Windows supports FLAC if you don't use the awful WMP program. I use Winamp.
Pretty sure Nero works ok with FLAC too (maybe need a plugin). But I use free software to do everything that nero does anyway.[/quote]

Good point well made actually (but wouldnt the same be true of a mac?). Just a point of interest, i once thought you didnt like the sound of wmp, but then we established it sounds the same as winamp et al, i went back to it. Not sure what you dont like about it, but I've not found anything else objectionable i dont think.[/quote]

A little misunderstanding I think. All playback sounds the same using windows standard drivers. Winamp and Foobar (maybe others) can utilise the Asio4all driver which further increases quality.
ie there is no difference between any playback software in playback quality without tweaking. It's the rest of the package that irritates me with bothe WMP and iTunes.... Both imo rubbish...especially if you are lazy enough to use them to rip CDs.
Also I only use Winamp for playback. I was using other software such as media monkey and one I have forgotten the name of, as good music cataloguers, but have reverted to self organisation of folders, which imo is the best way to go. I guess its because I'm a programmer, and have a need to know exactly whats going on, rather than trusting (usually) dodgy databases. I even use my squeezebox by Music folder rather than DB.

 

[Alec]

[quote user="fr0g"][quote user="al7478"][quote user="fr0g"][quote user="al7478"]Thanks john - no idea about Apple TV so ill have a look. fr0g - Windows doesnt play with flac without tweakes either tho. But you have made me think, and ive just realised flac isnt recognised by nero, and i dont think apple lossless is either. Now, i dont often use it nowadays, but i do need to make the odd cd or data dvd. So that leads me to think that id be better of using a pc to rip to flac then rip separately in high quality mp3, or jsut find a prog thatll do Good Quality mp3 batch conversion from flac.[/quote]

Windows supports FLAC if you don't use the awful WMP program. I use Winamp.
Pretty sure Nero works ok with FLAC too (maybe need a plugin). But I use free software to do everything that nero does anyway.[/quote]

Good point well made actually (but wouldnt the same be true of a mac?). Just a point of interest, i once thought you didnt like the sound of wmp, but then we established it sounds the same as winamp et al, i went back to it. Not sure what you dont like about it, but I've not found anything else objectionable i dont think.[/quote]

A little misunderstanding I think. All playback sounds the same using windows standard drivers. Winamp and Foobar (maybe others) can utilise the Asio4all driver which further increases quality.
ie there is no difference between any playback software in playback quality without tweaking. It's the rest of the package that irritates me with bothe WMP and iTunes.... Both imo rubbish...especially if you are lazy enough to use them to rip CDs.
Also I only use Winamp for playback. I was using other software such as media monkey and one I have forgotten the name of, as good music cataloguers, but have reverted to self organisation of folders, which imo is the best way to go. I guess its because I'm a programmer, and have a need to know exactly whats going on, rather than trusting (usually) dodgy databases. I even use my squeezebox by Music folder rather than DB.[/quote]

Cerainly agree with you on the ripping, as you know. When I've got things fully sorted - and if thats with windows - I'll be using a combination of DB and folders, But mostly rely on playlists i think. Yes, way back when, you see, i thought it was the sound quality you objected to, and even agreed myself, before i played about a bit. As you'll know tho, i miss understood your objection, and discovered, as you say, that there is no playback difference. Thats what i was getting at in my cack-handed way. If i go the apple route I'll probably give Asio a miss, and would probably do likewise if i went the windows route. You've just hinted at a third possibility tho - using alternative playback software for playback, and still bringing the TV in. But that would mean foobar 2000 or winamp, then navigating to my files (made up as playlists already) on the TV, and selecting to play them with winamp or whatever. By remote. I'm only guessing, but I'm thinking "probably not that simple...". As for VNP software - that apple remote desktop is a bit pricey and I'm not even sure it would do what i want. Maybe i have to get used to the idea of using a keybord and mouse with it. I'd have to use that to copy stuff off external hdd anyway. It'll be a bit uncomfortable as it wont be at my desk, but i might have to live with it. Incidentally, does apple lossless support tags...?

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="al7478"]As for VNP software - that apple remote desktop is a bit pricey and I'm not even sure it would do what i want.[/quote]

Well, everything you need to remote control the Mac is free. You can download the VNC client software for free (see here - you want the VNC Free Edition Viewer for Windows) and Apple Remote Desktop comes with the Mac OS X.

So download the above to your PC, then on the Mac, just go to System Preferences > Sharing and then tick the box for "Apple Remote Desktop". Run VNC Viewer exe you downloaded on your PC, enter in the IP address assigned to your Mac and then put in the password you entered when you set up Apple Remote Desktop. That's it!

 

[Alec]

[quote user="professorhat"][quote user="al7478"]As for VNP software - that apple remote desktop is a bit pricey and I'm not even sure it would do what i want.[/quote]

Well, everything you need to remote control the Mac is free. You can download the VNC client software for free (see here - you want the VNC Free Edition Viewer for Windows) and Apple Remote Desktop comes with the Mac OS X.

So download the above to your PC, then on the Mac, just go to System Preferences > Sharing and then tick the box for "Apple Remote Desktop". Run VNC Viewer exe you downloaded on your PC, enter in the IP address assigned to your Mac and then put in the password you entered when you set up Apple Remote Desktop. That's it!
[/quote]

Ah, thanks! So really im just downloading the same onto pc and mac, via ethernet cable with the latter? How will i know the ip address of my mac? Just need to ascertain whether it will actually allow me to make playlists, and delete stuff and such from my pc before i make any rash decisions. professorhat and all, your patience is appreciated. If anyone else has anything to say about any of my posts from today, feel free.

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="al7478"]So really im just downloading the same onto pc and mac, via ethernet cable with the latter?[/quote]

Not quite - you download the VNC Viewer software on your PC. The Remote Desktop software is built into the Mac so nothing needs to be downloaded onto this.

[quote user="al7478"]How will i know the ip address of my mac?[/quote]

You can get this easily on the Mac by going to System Preferences then click on Network.

[quote user="al7478"]Just need to ascertain whether it will actually allow me to make playlists, and delete stuff and such from my pc before i make any rash decisions.[/quote]

Basically, this is remote control software. So what you will get is a window on your PC displaying the desktop on your Mac. So you can move around the mouse, open applications etc. just as if you were sitting in front of your Mac, but it's all running from inside a window on your PC.

[quote user="al7478"]professorhat and all, your patience is appreciated.[/quote]

No worries!

 

[Alec]

"Basically, this is remote control software. So what you will get is a window on your PC displaying the desktop on your Mac. So you can move around the mouse, open applications etc. just as if you were sitting in front of your Mac, but it's all running from inside a window on your PC." So it seems i can take it that it will do it. "You can get this easily on the Mac by going to System Preferences then click on Network". But I wont be able to do that on't pc as that happens before remote desktop is set up, so ill need a usb keyboard and mouse for that part, but should be able to dispense with it thereafter...? I've heard of people using apple remote desktop to control PCs, but not the other way around, and everytime ive googled for info it has come up short, as what i want to do is reverse the natural order of things. But thats jsut me waffling. And finally: I've read that enabling network ability on a mini mac means it has to be set up for it before you buy, and it therefore costs more. But it occurred to me thats only if its wireless maybe. As I'll jsut hook up an ethernet cable, will it work out the box, for just the basic unit cost...? In a day or 2 i think ill try to consult with apple themselves, so i can stop with the silly questions.

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="al7478"]But I wont be able to do that on't pc as that happens before remote desktop is set up, so ill need a usb keyboard and mouse for that part, but should be able to dispense with it thereafter...?[/quote]

Good point! Yes, for the initial setup you'll need the USB keyboard and mouse (as you'll need to go through the setup options when you first power it on as well).

[quote user="al7478"]I've read that enabling network ability on a mini mac means it has to be set up for it before you buy, and it therefore costs more. But it occurred to me thats only if its wireless maybe.[/quote]

Not sure what this was about, but setting up the network should basically just be a case of plugging an ethernet cable in. For wireless you might have to configure a bit more, but it wouldn't cost any extra to set up from Apple, just a bit extra to ensure you get a wireless card installed in the Mini Mac when you buy it.

[quote user="al7478"]As I'll jsut hook up an ethernet cable, will it work out the box, for just the basic unit cost...?[/quote]

Yup, for sure.

Also, you're right, there's very little info on getting a remote connection to an Apple box from the PC, I stumbled on it when I was messing around. It works though, I promise - I use it all the time!

 

[Alec]

Brilliant, many thanks! Any idea what the network card would cost...? I think that must be what i meant earlier. Plus, would i still need one if im using the ethernet cable? Finally for today (no, honestly!) id just have to copy the individual music files over in bulk from the external hdd wouldnt i, as if i copied them over in their files, presumably osx wouldnt recognise those files (in fact, i could just drag and drop them with remote desktop couldnt i?

 

[John Duncan]

Can we just go back a bit - what exactly is it you want to achieve (irrespective of hardware)?

 

[Alec]

[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Can we just go back a bit - what exactly is it you want to achieve (irrespective of hardware)?[/quote]

Oh Lordy! Go back a bit? NOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo...sob...whimper... Dont panick, I jest! Im very lazy, and not too tech savvy as you can tell. I just want to be able to se my music labrary clearly on the TV and to be able to select songs or playlists to play, rather than use my pc monitor. I also want to steer clear of wireless networking if poss (but hardwired ethernet is fine. And this method seems to have the advantage of taking my pc out of the loop entirely, except for the odd bit of remote access - but its out of the audio loop, at least. And all for a lot less than the new pc ive been quoted for. This also seems a bit better in terms of where things would go in my living room but, as i say, ill have a pic up asap with a written description of measurement etc as i thought it may come in handy to have it up in future. excuse typos. Im not sure of my own name anymore.

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="al7478"]Any idea what the network card would cost...? I think that must be what i meant earlier. Plus, would i still need one if im using the ethernet cable?[/quote]

Ethernet comes built in, so no extra cost for this. And having now just looked at it, seems like everything's changed since I bought mine and wireless comes as standard, so no extra cost for this either!

[quote user="al7478"]Finally for today (no, honestly!) id just have to copy the individual music files over in bulk from the external hdd wouldnt i, as if i copied them over in their files, presumably osx wouldnt recognise those files (in fact, i could just drag and drop them with remote desktop couldnt i?[/quote]

Hmm, don't get this. Your music files are on an external HDD, so you hook this up to the Mini Mac, connect to the desktop using remote desktop and then copy them to the Mini Mac... is that what you mean? If so, yes!.

[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Can we just go back a bit - what exactly is it you want to achieve (irrespective of hardware)?[/quote]

Yeah, this is probably a good idea - I've just got caught up with the whole remote desktop feature and haven't actually thought about this!!

 

[Alec]

professorhat - i was just sort of asking (badly, sorry), if osx will recognise windows files, or if that even matters. And i was trying (remarkably clumsily, my bad) to draw the distinction between a song file, and the folder theyre kept in, also with reference to compatibility.

 

[professorhat]

Ah okay - this depends really. Mac OS X will recognise certain files dependent on what software is used to run them. For example, it will recognise .MP3 files, as iTunes (or another music player) can be used to open them. It will recognise .DOC files as TextEdit or Office for Mac can be used to open them. It won't recognise .EXE files as this is something which relies on the Windows kernel to operate so is foreign to Mac OS X (in the same way as .DMG files mean nothing to Windows).

So, without getting too complicated, which types of files are you thinking of? As long as there is an application which runs on Mac OS X which will recognise these file types, it will work.

 

[professorhat]

Oh, and just to add yet more choice to this fairly complicated post (!), you could use something like this to use an existing PS/2 keyboard and mouse and hook these up via USB to your Mac...

 

[Alec]

Not sure what PS/2 is...? I should think a usb keyboard and mouse could be had for not very much...? And itd jsut plug n play...? Plus, it wouldnt get used much after the initial set up i dont think... The files would be mp3. I have planned for ages to re-rip, but i dont currently have the CDs (long story), so they would have to be purchased thanks to the miracle of Amazon's new and used section. Anyway, thats probably best left til i settle on my source, as if i stick with windows, ill probably stick to flac, but if i go apple, ill use apple lossless, as long as they can hold tags...I dont, however, know the extension of the folders i keep my files in (i have them all elaborately organised into folders in a system probably best kept to myself - its just another diversion). What i think im saying is that id have to take the songs out of the folders to copy them over to the mini. A minor hassle, but it wont matter if i set up all my playlists remotely then copy them over i guess...

 

[professorhat]

PS/2 are the standard ports PCs used for ages and ages for keyboard and mouse (though USB is becoming more of a standard now). They look like this:

[quote user="al7478"]I dont, however, know the extension of the folders i keep my files in (i have them all elaborately organised into folders in a system probably best kept to myself - its just another diversion). What i think im saying is that id have to take the songs out of the folders to copy them over to the mini. A minor hassle, but it wont matter if i set up all my playlists remotely then copy them over i guess[/quote]

Hmmm, well, folders themselves don't have extensions, but some programs will organise your music files differently e.g. iTunes, if given the chance, will create a top folder called iTunes Music, then create a new folder under this for each artist e.g. Coldplay, then a new folder underneath this for album name e.g. Parachutes, then the MP3 file will exist under this folder e.g. Trouble.mp3.

So possibly you'd need to re-organise them, but maybe the new software you're using to play the songs could just do a search for all MP3's in your existing folder structure and then organise them for you as it sees fit? I know iTunes can do this.

 

[Alec]

[quote user="professorhat"]
PS/2 are the standard ports PCs used for ages and ages for keyboard and mouse (though USB is becoming more of a standard now). They look like this:

[quote user="al7478"]I dont, however, know the extension of the folders i keep my files in (i have them all elaborately organised into folders in a system probably best kept to myself - its just another diversion). What i think im saying is that id have to take the songs out of the folders to copy them over to the mini. A minor hassle, but it wont matter if i set up all my playlists remotely then copy them over i guess[/quote]

Hmmm, well, folders themselves don't have extensions, but some programs will organise your music files differently e.g. iTunes, if given the chance, will create a top folder called iTunes Music, then create a new folder under this for each artist e.g. Coldplay, then a new folder underneath this for album name e.g. Parachutes, then the MP3 file will exist under this folder e.g. Trouble.mp3.

So possibly you'd need to re-organise them, but maybe the new software you're using to play the songs could just do a search for all MP3's in your existing folder structure and then organise them for you as it sees fit? I know iTunes can do this.
[/quote]

OK thanks. I'll probably get a usb one, I'll have a look around. As i say, theres no need to use it much once remote desktop is set up. I'm not sure what you mean by the new software im using to play songs - im currently using media player but would then be using front row wouldnt i? But front row supports playlists doesnt it? So i could either make the playlists by remote desktop and "ethernet them over to the mini" or send the songs over first, then make the playlists via remote desktop. Then, all ill have to do is go into the folder marked playlists, and select the one i want. By the by, what would be great is if i could call up remote desktop while songs are playing, and tell it to make those songs into a playlist, just like you can in media player. Most playlists, however, i know what id have in them already, so id just make them soon as.

 

[professorhat]

Hmmm, I'm worried I'm just confusing matters here now... I think the rest of this may be better picked up by someone who knows and uses Front Row (as I don't have it unfortunately, it doesn't work with my 1st gen Mini Mac). However, I don't think remote desktop and Front Row are going to offer you everything you want above... e.g. [quote user="al7478"]what would be great is if i could call up remote desktop while songs are playing, and tell it to make those songs into a playlist, just like you can in media player.[/quote]
Remote Desktop isn't really an application in the usual sense, all it does is let you remote control the Mini Mac's desktop from your PC. You can't tell it to do anything, you can just connect to the Mac from your PC, then you can control applications as if you had your USB keyboard and mouse plugged in and you were controlling it directly.

 

[Alec]

This is getting ridiculous. I've just done a bit more reading and it seems that because the audio connections on the mac mini are "line level" or somesuch, the remote wont control the volume. Another reason why it wont, aparently, is because it wont talk to VLC properly...Sorry, im getting tired. I hope thats wrong/outdated info...Anyway, i think that was just in the Wiki entry about the apple remote.

 

[Alec]

[quote user="professorhat"]Hmmm, I'm worried I'm just confusing matters here now... I think the rest of this may be better picked up by someone who knows and uses Front Row (as I don't have it unfortunately, it doesn't work with my 1st gen Mini Mac). However, I don't think remote desktop and Front Row are going to offer you everything you want above... e.g. [quote user="al7478"]what would be great is if i could call up remote desktop while songs are playing, and tell it to make those songs into a playlist, just like you can in media player.[/quote]
Remote Desktop isn't really an application in the usual sense, all it does is let you remote control the Mini Mac's desktop from your PC. You can't tell it to do anything, you can just connect to the Mac from your PC, then you can control applications as if you had your USB keyboard and mouse plugged in and you were controlling it directly.[/quote]

Aha! So i couldnt actually just use my current wireless keyboard and mouse to make playlists via the remote desktop...? It has to be with the usb keyboard and mouse, directly connected to the mac...? i too have no front row experience, or itunes for that matter. it makes no odds to me therefore which i use, as long as they do what i want.

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="al7478"]Aha! So i couldnt actually just use my current wireless keyboard and mouse to make playlists via the remote desktop...? It has to be with the usb keyboard and mouse, directly connected to the mac...?[/quote]
This is my problem, I really don't know what you want to do now or how you want to do it... I'm tired!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="al7478"][quote user="professorhat"]Hmmm, I'm worried I'm just confusing matters here now... I think the rest of this may be better picked up by someone who knows and uses Front Row (as I don't have it unfortunately, it doesn't work with my 1st gen Mini Mac). However, I don't think remote desktop and Front Row are going to offer you everything you want above... e.g. [quote user="al7478"]what would be great is if i could call up remote desktop while songs are playing, and tell it to make those songs into a playlist, just like you can in media player.[/quote]
Remote Desktop isn't really an application in the usual sense, all it does is let you remote control the Mini Mac's desktop from your PC. You can't tell it to do anything, you can just connect to the Mac from your PC, then you can control applications as if you had your USB keyboard and mouse plugged in and you were controlling it directly.[/quote]

Aha! So i couldnt actually just use my current wireless keyboard and mouse to make playlists via the remote desktop...? It has to be with the usb keyboard and mouse, directly connected to the mac...?
i too have no front row experience, or itunes for that matter. it makes no odds to me therefore which i use, as long as they do what i want.
[/quote]Al, my friend, no worries! Worry has never helped me or anybody else for that matter.Make a plan and stick to it! What I mean by this is:1)Make a plan- what do you want to achieve? With what kind of budget?
2)How do you want to achieve this? Windows- familiar or take a chance with Mac? Shared experience from forum members can help. Real experience is all: best is to keep comparing what you want (1) to what forum members have experienced. Then double check in the real at a mac/computer shop of your choice. You should then know what you want and how you're gonna ask it.3)Choice made based on all experience- buy if it satisfies your requirements; don't buy if it doesn't match your plan in 1)Forum members can only help you if you know what you want (=1). For instance I can tell you from my own experience that the remote does change the volume of songs (naturally, what else is it for!?) What the remote can do is comparable what the touch/click wheel on an ipod can do- select songs, scroll, select artists, select video, select photos etc. All of this has to be viewed from a distance when using a remote- i.e. you need bigger pictures/letters: THAT is what front row does. It makes no sense to explain this further- you just grab the remote, press menu and there appears a menu with photos, music, dvd, videos before your eyes. The rest is just select and click, just like an ipod or any other media player. Ask to play with this at the Apple store; it's so simple even a monkey could operate it!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Solomon1"]Make a plan and stick to it![/quote]

I think I'm with you on this one! I've been following this thread with great interest, learning bits along the way but I must admit when John D said much the same thing around midnight I was hoping to wake up to some sort of closure - some hope!!

In the meantime, whilst the main players are still sleeping (I guess), can I ask if adding AppleTv in the front room ie. giving me Front Row on the telly, would also give me internet radio, thus avoiding my intension to go down the Squeezebox Duet route. I know JD is a fan of the Atv but, unless it is about to be re-launched in piano black, I am yet to be convinced. The small HDD limits things a bit for me (would have to leave my Mac running), and £280 for the larger drive seems a bit steep.

After all this I wonder if we can ask the Prof, and others, to produce an FAQ on all things WiFi - for me it is a confusing minefield!.