How much would you spend on a turntable and phono stage ?

[xlider]

Having currently an all digital system (TEaC 510 class C amp, connect through digital Toslink to apple TV and DVD player (for CDs) + digital coax and USB for TV and PC), Imstart thinking about pitting the analog entries to use as well...

But the question comes.... Having put around 2000EUR in amp and speakers, what is a "matching budget" form turntable?

Thanks

 

[drummerman]

Perhaps get a starter Rega or Project and see how it goes.

You can sell them on without much loss should you want to upgrade or jack it in.

regards

 

[lindsayt]

At the moment, I would spend Eur 2100 (make an offer of 2000 and settle on 2100) plus several hundred extra for a new cartridge.

But that's just me and my tastes. I just love the sound quality, engineering quality, fuss-free ownership with minimal servicing of these: http://www.ebay.de/itm/EMT-948-guter-Zustand-technisch-perfekt-/301117985390?pt=Plattenspieler&hash=item461c07d26e

They are one of the best sounding turntable, arm, cartridge, phono amp combinations ever made. No depreciation either.

You may have similar taste in turntables to me or you may have different taste - in which case buy something else.

 

[NHL]

Have

AT MC cartridge: 500 Euro

Leema Elememts Phono: 500 Euro

Rega RP3: 700 Euro

All in all: 1700 Euro, yes it is worth it! No DAC can compete, sonic wise.

 

[ifor]

There's sensible advice like Drummerman's and there is dreaming.

i have a belt drive TT and a direct drive TT. I fancy an idler drive TT like the Inspire Enigma or PTP Audio Solid9. The Enigma is a considerably cheaper option.

 

[the record spot]

Have

AT MC cartridge: 500 Euro

Leema Elememts Phono: 500 Euro

Rega RP3: 700 Euro

All in all: 1700 Euro, yes it is worth it! No DAC can compete, sonic wise.

Rest assured, they can.

 

[stevebrock]

Have

AT MC cartridge: 500 Euro

Leema Elememts Phono: 500 Euro

Rega RP3: 700 Euro

All in all: 1700 Euro, yes it is worth it! No DAC can compete, sonic wise.

Rest assured, they can.

not at that price i doubt it

 

[the record spot]

Doubt all you like Steve, I've done the vinyl thing so I'm not shy on experience. At that price, very much so.

 

[nima]

I think there is no way one could find a DAC under 1500GBP (I'm being very conservative here) that would outperform Rega RP1/Audio-Technica AT 120E/Stageline (under 700GBP, add something for SH iSupply or FlatCap) or antoher very popular option RP3/Nagaoka MP200/Rega Fono (under 1000GBP).

The whole digital/vinyl debate is pointless though.

 

[stevebrock]

Doubt all you like Steve, I've done the vinyl thing so I'm not shy on experience. At that price, very much so.

My ears must be shot then !

I will agree to disagree with you in a gentleman-like fashion

 

[davedotco]

Doubt all you like Steve, I've done the vinyl thing so I'm not shy on experience. At that price, very much so.

My ears must be shot then !

I will agree to disagree with you in a gentleman-like fashion

I believe the 'polite' term is to 'offer him outside'.......

In my experience, cheap vinyl playback systems are hopelessly inaccurate compared to similarly priced digital systems, but this is hi-fi and this clearly does not matter.

Some people, quite a lot in fact, actually like the sound of vinyl on an inexpensive playback system, personally I don't get it, but I accept that others do.

In my view, if the OP is serious about vinyl, buy something decent, my entry level would be a Clearaudio Concept MC, which I have tried and quite like. Needs proper support and their are other options, but this would be the level I would advise.

If, on the other hand, you just want a bit of 'fun' with some vinyl then an entry level Rega or Project will be fine.

I would not however suggest either of these as a 'taster' for what vinyl is capable of, neither are remotely close to what a decent setup can do.

 

[the record spot]

The whole digital/vinyl debate is pointless though.

Indeed. It's opinion. Which makes the whole assertion that the earlier poster made a nonsense. Digital has long been up there with vinyl.

 

[the record spot]

My ears must be shot then !

I will agree to disagree with you in a gentleman-like fashion

I wouldn't know Steve, but I've heard plenty of vinyl setups and I've heard plenty of digital ones. Why do you think I gave up the vinyl that gave me my online nickname if digital didn't cut it? Any number of DACs are the equivalent or better. I've no idea what people are listening, on what and how their speakers are setup or what masterings they've got to hand. What I do know is that if you get all that right and still think digital isn't capable of comparing with the yesteryear novelty of basic turntable replay, then they can't handle the clarity or better resolution on offer, or yes, their ears probably are shot!

But I respect their preference to like that, albeit the absolutes about "nothing under blah blah can touch this setup" gets nil points from the record_spot jury!

 

[Freddy58]

Hiya chums

Just to add my thoughts based on my own (limited) experience. I think that both formats have their merit. Vinyl can't measure up on the dynamic front, one only has to listen to 'Time Warp' to realise that. Another one is 'Flag' by Yello. But, the thing I really like about vinyl is that it seems to have a softer, more musical quality. I always found that CD's were a bit hard sounding, clinical? Maybe digital has moved on? I've been out of the HiFi scene for some time, so please feel free to put me straight

 

[davedotco]

Hiya chums

Just to add my thoughts based on my own (limited) experience. I think that both formats have their merit. Vinyl can't measure up on the dynamic front, one only has to listen to 'Time Warp' to realise that. Another one is 'Flag' by Yello. But, the thing I really like about vinyl is that it seems to have a softer, more musical quality. I always found that CD's were a bit hard sounding, clinical? Maybe digital has moved on? I've been out of the HiFi scene for some time, so please feel free to put me straight

You need to get out and listen to some live music........ :rockout:

"Softer, more musical", it ain't. (Well not in a hi-fi sense anyway.)

 

[Freddy58]

Hiya chums

Just to add my thoughts based on my own (limited) experience. I think that both formats have their merit. Vinyl can't measure up on the dynamic front, one only has to listen to 'Time Warp' to realise that. Another one is 'Flag' by Yello. But, the thing I really like about vinyl is that it seems to have a softer, more musical quality. I always found that CD's were a bit hard sounding, clinical? Maybe digital has moved on? I've been out of the HiFi scene for some time, so please feel free to put me straight

You need to get out and listen to some live music........ :rockout:

"Softer, more musical", it ain't. (Well not in a hi-fi sense anyway.)

Hiya Dave

I can assure you, I hear quite a bit of live music, my son is in a rather good rock outfit

"Softer, more musical", it ain't. Could you expand on this a little?

 

[davedotco]

Hiya chums

Just to add my thoughts based on my own (limited) experience. I think that both formats have their merit. Vinyl can't measure up on the dynamic front, one only has to listen to 'Time Warp' to realise that. Another one is 'Flag' by Yello. But, the thing I really like about vinyl is that it seems to have a softer, more musical quality. I always found that CD's were a bit hard sounding, clinical? Maybe digital has moved on? I've been out of the HiFi scene for some time, so please feel free to put me straight

You need to get out and listen to some live music........ :rockout:

"Softer, more musical", it ain't. (Well not in a hi-fi sense anyway.)

Hiya Dave

I can assure you, I hear quite a bit of live music, my son is in a rather good rock outfit

"Softer, more musical", it ain't. Could you expand on this a little?

Evening Freddy,

Again, in my experience, live instruments are rarely, if anything, like the recordings and playback systems that are used for hi-fi.

I have spent most of my working life in the music business and the sound you hear on stage or in the studio is nothing like hi-fi playback.

I have also over the years, lived with musicians playing everything from cello, piano and saxaphone to electric guitar and bass. This is what I find the most enlightening, mainly because you are listening to these instruments in a home environment, just like a hi-fi system. Listening to someone play the sax from about 12ft is literally an ear bending experience.

People simply do not want music played with that intensity, that presence, that dynamic range, just a few feet in front of them, it's just too much, though while I personally want as much of this as I can get, i realise that I am not 'normal' in that respect.

Modern recording are so compromised with regard to the qualities I mentioned above that I wish to preserve them from further degredation, hence my preference for systems that are dynamic and intense, i want to feel the presence of the performers in all respects.

Sorry, a fairly longwinded way of saying that, most of the time at least, I find hi-fi playback to be too soft and lacking in presence and, well, punch.

I have been on 'holiday' for the last couple of weeks and must have seen half a dozen different bands, some more than once, and there is nothing quite like it. From acoustic mariachi bands, to hard rock outfits in Sammy Hagar's 'Cabo Wabo' club, their is nothing quite like it..........

:rockout:

 

[Freddy58]

Hiya Dave

I totally agree, there's nothing quite like live music. I was merely comparing CD to vinyl. Both formats can't convey the presence of live music, one has to 'be there'...

 

[ifor]

Surely, unless you are talking about a recording of a live performance it's a meaningless comparison.

 

[Freddy58]

Surely, unless you are talking about a recording of a live performance it's a meaningless comparison.

Yeah, Dave sidetracked me! Naughty Dave

 

[davedotco]

Hiya Dave

I totally agree, there's nothing quite like live music. I was merely comparing CD to vinyl. Both formats can't convey the presence of live music, one has to 'be there'...

Actually they can, it just takes rather a lot of money.

Again, in my experience, top end vinyl and top end digital systems sound remarkably similar, but for either to sound at all 'real', you need some serious kit, wide bandwith speakers, powerfull amps and most importantly of all, space.

All of the best systems I have heard, and I have heard some serious stuff, need big rooms to really work, and in a private home this is unusual. Plenty of examples but one that stands out was a big pair of Tannoys, Quad driven and a very serious Roksan/SME/Kiseki front end (our contribution) in a 40ft square ( not quite, slightly asymetrical) room in a house on Backheath. Quite modest equipment by todays standards but playing lieder and chamber works it was remarkably convincing.

Another was a system installed in the 'Manse' of a scottish record producer, decent but not over the top equipment but in a room big enough to have a minstrels gallery, pretty impressive.

 

[davedotco]

Surely, unless you are talking about a recording of a live performance it's a meaningless comparison.

No, I don't think it is.

Walk from the studio floor through into the control room and hear, say, an uncompressed drum kit through a pair of full size recording monitors, this gives you a real reference poit.

If you are talking about the mix, then you have a point, but then 'live' recordings are usually just as unrealistic, in terms of the mix anyway, particularly if you are talking about non acoustic performances.

That said, I am a huge fan of live recordings, for a whole load of reasons, so much so that I find studio recordings close to irrelevent in many cases.

 

[Freddy58]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make, Dave. I was comparing CD to vinyl, in general terms

 

[davedotco]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make, Dave. I was comparing CD to vinyl, in general terms

At the highest quality levels the differences are tiny.

At more affordable levels vinyl playback has huge amounts of distortion that some people rather like.

It's a perception thing, digital is more accurate but some people prefer the less accurate vinyl. It is only the use of words such as 'musical' or 'involving' that is contentious.

Accuracy can be measured even by listening, preferences are just that.

 

[Jim-W]

Freddy, stop it! A good song or piece of music sounds good whatever doesn't it? The Beatles records sounded good on tinny transistor radios in the 60's. This whole debate spirals into huge amounts of money and mansions. Well, most of us haven't got these things so we buy what we can afford and what we prefer, records or cds. These days I can actually hear the bass player on cds and records: that's a huge leap forward from when I was a young jumbucky. Don't get involved in this perfect sound business: it'll drive you 'round the bend.