How much difference is there, in truth?

[Overdose]

I agree. As I mentioned earlier that comment was just stupid.

Not stupid. I got where you were coming from.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Actually a lot of people do want to reduce boxes and are still serious about the sound, if I could have 1 box instead of 4 or 5 then great. I'm hoping to replace my cdp with a DB dvd player that will play cds and dvds then I will only have 2 boxes under the TV, (the other being a Humax HDR).

Fine, but there are huge compromises. I'm not saying the Marantz and Denon units sound good (although I heard the Marantz all-in-one and found it lacking) but you wouldn't want to hang Neats, Harbeth, Spendor or similar quality speakers off them. The sound might improve, but not as much as it would with better amps.

 

[BigH]

Well WHF says the PMC GB1s were fine with the Marantz 603. Neats should be fine also not so sure about Spendor/Harbeths.

 

[matthewpiano]

Actually a lot of people do want to reduce boxes and are still serious about the sound, if I could have 1 box instead of 4 or 5 then great. I'm hoping to replace my cdp with a DB dvd player that will play cds and dvds then I will only have 2 boxes under the TV, (the other being a Humax HDR).

Fine, but there are huge compromises. I'm not saying the Marantz and Denon units sound good (although I heard the Marantz all-in-one and found it lacking) but you wouldn't want to hang Neats, Harbeth, Spendor or similar quality speakers off them. The sound might improve, but not as much as it would with better amps.

If you had Neats, Harbeth or Spendor and you wanted to use an all-in-one you'd choose something of relative quality. For me it would have to be something like the T+A Music Receiver, which I have heard and thought to be superb (except I'd choose Vienna Acoustics speakers).

For those of us that can't possibly afford Harbeth and Spendor prices at the present time, more affordable speakers would be more than happy on the end of any of the D&M all-in-ones from the D-M39DAB upwards.

 

[Covenanter]

Actually a lot of people do want to reduce boxes and are still serious about the sound, if I could have 1 box instead of 4 or 5 then great. I'm hoping to replace my cdp with a DB dvd player that will play cds and dvds then I will only have 2 boxes under the TV, (the other being a Humax HDR).

Mind you tvs are so big nowadays that there is plenty of room under them.

Chris

 

[matthewpiano]

Actually a lot of people do want to reduce boxes and are still serious about the sound, if I could have 1 box instead of 4 or 5 then great. I'm hoping to replace my cdp with a DB dvd player that will play cds and dvds then I will only have 2 boxes under the TV, (the other being a Humax HDR).

Fine, but there are huge compromises. I'm not saying the Marantz and Denon units sound good (although I heard the Marantz all-in-one and found it lacking) but you wouldn't want to hang Neats, Harbeth, Spendor or similar quality speakers off them. The sound might improve, but not as much as it would with better amps.

If you had Neats, Harbeth or Spendor and you wanted to use an all-in-one you'd choose something of relative quality. For me it would have to be something like the T+A Music Receiver, which I have heard and thought to be superb (except I'd choose Vienna Acoustics speakers).

For those of us that can't possibly afford Harbeth and Spendor prices at the present time, more affordable speakers would be more than happy on the end of any of the D&M all-in-ones from the D-M39DAB upwards.

If at the Harbeth/Spendor sort of price range I'd have to audition the AVI ADMs to be honest.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Actually a lot of people do want to reduce boxes and are still serious about the sound, if I could have 1 box instead of 4 or 5 then great. I'm hoping to replace my cdp with a DB dvd player that will play cds and dvds then I will only have 2 boxes under the TV, (the other being a Humax HDR).

Fine, but there are huge compromises. I'm not saying the Marantz and Denon units sound good (although I heard the Marantz all-in-one and found it lacking) but you wouldn't want to hang Neats, Harbeth, Spendor or similar quality speakers off them. The sound might improve, but not as much as it would with better amps.

If you had Neats, Harbeth or Spendor and you wanted to use an all-in-one you'd choose something of relative quality. For me it would have to be something like the T+A Music Receiver, which I have heard and thought to be superb (except I'd choose Vienna Acoustics speakers).

For those of us that can't possibly afford Harbeth and Spendor prices at the present time, more affordable speakers would be more than happy on the end of any of the D&M all-in-ones from the D-M39DAB upwards.

Yes, spot on but your options for upgrading in the future are strictly limited.

By the way, if you can handle a bit of DIY matthewpiano, it is possible to get speakers not far off Spendor and Harbeth quality. Falcon Acoustics sell really good LS3/5a clones in kit form for bargain prices.

 

[chebby]

Well WHF says the PMC GB1s were fine with the Marantz 603.

Andrew was actually reviewing for Gramophone and used his own GB1 speakers.

The WHF? group test of mini systems (p49 of the October 2011 issue) used Boston Acoustics A26s (or at least suggested them as a very good match for the M-CR603 during the test).

This stands to reason as Boston Acoustics are a sister company to Marantz and Denon under D&M Holdings.

The original December 2010 WHF? review suggests Dali Zensor 1s as a good starting point.

 

[chebby]

By the way, if you can handle a bit of DIY matthewpiano, it is possible to get speakers not far off Spendor and Harbeth quality. Falcon Acoustics sell really good LS3/5a clones in kit form for bargain prices.

If you can cope with virtually no DIY at all then I would suggest these too.

Just a few screws and a few bits of soldering (only to the rear terminals) and accurately placing a bit of sealing strip between the fully finished cabinets and the fully built baffles.

Everything included for £488. (Stirling Broadcast's LS3/5A V2s cost £1040 by comparison.)

 

[matthewpiano]

One day some of these things will get consideration. For now I'll be simplifying the system to an all-in-one (plus my Rega t/t), keeping the Q Acoustics 2020i speakers (which I love) and getting on with enjoying the music. I will then only consider another move upwards when finances allow me to consider something like the AVIs or the T+A.

Regarding the 'limited options for upgrading', I see this as a good thing for me in my present position.

 

[pauln]

Fine, but there are huge compromises. I'm not saying the Marantz and Denon units sound good (although I heard the Marantz all-in-one and found it lacking) but you wouldn't want to hang Neats, Harbeth, Spendor or similar quality speakers off them. The sound might improve, but not as much as it would with better amps.

That's really funny given the way Harbeth designer/owner Alan Shaw feels about amplifiers (and all things audiophile). Not heard of the "Harbeth challenge"?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Indeed. Have posted about it.

 

[BigH]

One day some of these things will get consideration. For now I'll be simplifying the system to an all-in-one (plus my Rega t/t), keeping the Q Acoustics 2020i speakers (which I love) and getting on with enjoying the music. I will then only consider another move upwards when finances allow me to consider something like the AVIs or the T+A.

Regarding the 'limited options for upgrading', I see this as a good thing for me in my present position.

Ive seen a few AVI9s come up for around £600-£700, not the latest version and a few years old but looked in good nick so maybe worth looking out for them. As for ugrading who wants to keep changing their system all the time, I know some people do but not everyone. At least with actives you don't have to bother about cables.

 

[matthewpiano]

One day some of these things will get consideration. For now I'll be simplifying the system to an all-in-one (plus my Rega t/t), keeping the Q Acoustics 2020i speakers (which I love) and getting on with enjoying the music. I will then only consider another move upwards when finances allow me to consider something like the AVIs or the T+A.

Regarding the 'limited options for upgrading', I see this as a good thing for me in my present position.

Ive seen a few AVI9s come up for around £600-£700, not the latest version and a few years old but looked in good nick so maybe worth looking out for them. As for ugrading who wants to keep changing their system all the time, I know some people do but not everyone. At least with actives you don't have to bother about cables.

Thanks! When I eventually do it I will want to audition the AVIs properly against the other options and, if I end up with AVIs, I think I'll want the latest version with the better drive units. I can't spend several hundred pounds at present and I need to focus on other things for a while so its going to be a cheaper solution for the time being. Appreciate the heads-up on the used ones though.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

@bigh Yes, you do. You have two extra cables, in fact, the power cables.

If you want a taste of active speakers, their plusses and their negatives, I'd look at Genelecs or Yamaha before investing too heavily in the hype. Also consider Xeos, which do have less cables as they're wireless.

In the end, though, even Ashley of AVI agrees than panels such as Magnepan do have noticeable advantages.

 

[bay24]

My old onkyo cr515 sounded better than some budget Cambridge audio separates and my avi neutrons and sub sound better than any other combo at the same price I have listened to.

I'm not sure if the AVI Neutron system counts as an 'all in one' because you need to add a source? I agree about the sound quality though and haven't heard any separates systems for the same price that sound as good.

Fair enough, all you need is an airport tho and you are away!

 

[Craig M.]

@bigh Yes, you do. You have two extra cables, in fact, the power cables.

If you want a taste of active speakers, their plusses and their negatives, I'd look at Genelecs or Yamaha before investing too heavily in the hype. Also consider Xeos, which do have less cables as they're wireless.

In the end, though, even Ashley of AVI agrees than panels such as Magnepan do have noticeable advantages.

You're a trier lemon, I'll give you that. Yeah, the Xeos have the massive advantage of one less cable. You must have missed Ashleys post about panels noticeable disadvantages.

Back to the op, I'd say the biggest hurdle for the all-in-one is providing enough power for 'difficult' speakers. Otherwise don't see why they have to lose out to seperates unless by design (to 'fit' into a range).

 

[the record spot]

But why is it that people want to have one box instead of two or three ? If you are a bit serious about your music why is space a problem ?

Or is it just nicer to look at ?

Educate me

If you;'re serious about music, why would you need multiple boxes if you find you can get the same quality from an all-in-one? Especially when integrated amps are still offering stone age input options and many don't even have a DAC input?! Onkyo's performance stands up there quite easily with what I've had before, easily. A browse round the web will provide you with many other users who have similar views, hundreds in fact. And it delivers a good real world power at at least 100wpc.

 

[plastic penguin]

One day some of these things will get consideration. For now I'll be simplifying the system to an all-in-one (plus my Rega t/t), keeping the Q Acoustics 2020i speakers (which I love) and getting on with enjoying the music. I will then only consider another move upwards when finances allow me to consider something like the AVIs or the T+A.

Regarding the 'limited options for upgrading', I see this as a good thing for me in my present position.

Ive seen a few AVI9s come up for around £600-£700, not the latest version and a few years old but looked in good nick so maybe worth looking out for them. As for ugrading who wants to keep changing their system all the time, I know some people do but not everyone. At least with actives you don't have to bother about cables.

Thanks! When I eventually do it I will want to audition the AVIs properly against the other options and, if I end up with AVIs, I think I'll want the latest version with the better drive units. I can't spend several hundred pounds at present and I need to focus on other things for a while so its going to be a cheaper solution for the time being. Appreciate the heads-up on the used ones though.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, I think actives may come up a little short when it comes to connectivity... especially the turntable.

 

[matthewpiano]

One day some of these things will get consideration. For now I'll be simplifying the system to an all-in-one (plus my Rega t/t), keeping the Q Acoustics 2020i speakers (which I love) and getting on with enjoying the music. I will then only consider another move upwards when finances allow me to consider something like the AVIs or the T+A.

Regarding the 'limited options for upgrading', I see this as a good thing for me in my present position.

Ive seen a few AVI9s come up for around £600-£700, not the latest version and a few years old but looked in good nick so maybe worth looking out for them. As for ugrading who wants to keep changing their system all the time, I know some people do but not everyone. At least with actives you don't have to bother about cables.

Thanks! When I eventually do it I will want to audition the AVIs properly against the other options and, if I end up with AVIs, I think I'll want the latest version with the better drive units. I can't spend several hundred pounds at present and I need to focus on other things for a while so its going to be a cheaper solution for the time being. Appreciate the heads-up on the used ones though.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, I think actives may come up a little short when it comes to connectivity... especially the turntable.

I think you may be right PP. The ADMs have one analogue connection and two optical inputs, but with these being on the speakers I can see cable management being a nightmare, particularly as I'd also have to have the seperate phono stage reasonably close to the speakers.

 

[plastic penguin]

One day some of these things will get consideration. For now I'll be simplifying the system to an all-in-one (plus my Rega t/t), keeping the Q Acoustics 2020i speakers (which I love) and getting on with enjoying the music. I will then only consider another move upwards when finances allow me to consider something like the AVIs or the T+A.

Regarding the 'limited options for upgrading', I see this as a good thing for me in my present position.

Ive seen a few AVI9s come up for around £600-£700, not the latest version and a few years old but looked in good nick so maybe worth looking out for them. As for ugrading who wants to keep changing their system all the time, I know some people do but not everyone. At least with actives you don't have to bother about cables.

Thanks! When I eventually do it I will want to audition the AVIs properly against the other options and, if I end up with AVIs, I think I'll want the latest version with the better drive units. I can't spend several hundred pounds at present and I need to focus on other things for a while so its going to be a cheaper solution for the time being. Appreciate the heads-up on the used ones though.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, I think actives may come up a little short when it comes to connectivity... especially the turntable.

I think you may be right PP. The ADMs have one analogue connection and two optical inputs, but with these being on the speakers I can see cable management being a nightmare, particularly as I'd also have to have the seperate phono stage reasonably close to the speakers.

Matthew, if you haven't already, try and have a dem of a Leema Elements. I would imagine it'll be near identical to the Pulse. They have a really good switchable phono stage.

 

[BigH]

@bigh Yes, you do. You have two extra cables, in fact, the power cables.

If you want a taste of active speakers, their plusses and their negatives, I'd look at Genelecs or Yamaha before investing too heavily in the hype. Also consider Xeos, which do have less cables as they're wireless.

In the end, though, even Ashley of AVI agrees than panels such as Magnepan do have noticeable advantages.

What do you mean 2 extra cables, does your amp and DAC not have a power cable. Yes I agree try some cheaper actives as well.

Yes panels have some advantages but many disadvantages.

 

[Cypher]

But why is it that people want to have one box instead of two or three ? If you are a bit serious about your music why is space a problem ?

Or is it just nicer to look at ?

Educate me

If you;'re serious about music, why would you need multiple boxes if you find you can get the same quality from an all-in-one? Especially when integrated amps are still offering stone age input options and many don't even have a DAC input?! Onkyo's performance stands up there quite easily with what I've had before, easily. A browse round the web will provide you with many other users who have similar views, hundreds in fact. And it delivers a good real world power at at least 100wpc.

The Onkyo TX-8050 seems like a very nice product. Never heard it so can't say anything about it.

The Rotel RA-11/RA-12 has a DAC. The upcoming amps Marantz PM6005 and NAD D3020 will include dacs too so it's becoming more popular.

 

[bluebrazil]

this thread has me hankering after the electrocompaniet eci-6ds, thats the only all in one kinda jobby that could get my speakers rocking :rockout:

propably still keep my cd player to use as a transport, my tuner for fm, and my dac for bluetooth so its not going to be a one box solution.

mind you i dont think anybody will ever make a highend/high current all in one with a cd player and fm tuner.

 

[bluebrazil]

p.s. anybody ever heard one? i know its based on the eci 5 amp (smooth as silk) but id like to know how the dac stage is voiced.

its really hard getting to listen to these