How much difference is there, in truth?

[Cypher]

But don't you miss the naim system ? It has to be so much better than the M-CR603 system you have now (talking about playing cd's now).

Isn't it a problem for you hearing your cd's in a much worse quality than you are used too ?

It would be a problem for me............i can tell you that

it's a double edged sword though isn't it. The pitfall with being in to hi fi equipment is that so regularly people end up listening to the hardware and not the music, so from an enjoyment perspective, one could argue you're actually getting less enjoyment from the music by trying to get the best sound, as you're concentrating too much on the output of the sound.

Whereas, 16 year old listening to their iphone through the built in speaker may be actually getting 10x more enjoment from the music becuase they are listening to the music and not concentrating on the sound quality.

(when I say you btw, I don't mean you personally, just my bad english )

I think it's great that chebby is enjoying his mcr603 so much and doesn't feel the need to buy something else. That's a thing many people strive for.

 

[Overdose]

The only thing that compromises a mini system in any way, is its power amplification section and that only shows if you need to drive difficult speakers or listen at loud volumes.

I have an old Kenwood mini system in the kitchen and it sounds perfectly good, although it could do with a few more 'features'.

In fact something like the CR603 with pre outs instead of fixed 'aux out' might be a superb front end for a pair of active speakers.

Far too many people turn their nose up at what would otherwise be a perfect music solution for them, simply because 'it's not separates'.

But you have adm9t active speakers. To me, they are a in way different league than the mcr603/denon ceol systems.

That may be so, but they are not a complete system and would need a source. The two products are at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of what role they play in a system. They really cannot be compared.

If a mini system existed that had the capability to control and drive very good speakers to a decent level, then the gap closes. That's why I suggested that the only compromise in a mini system is the amplification (assuming a certain level of quality for the remaining bits inside).

Listening at lower levels with good speakers mitigates this somewhat.

 

[chebby]

If a mini system existed that had the capability to control and drive very good speakers...

Did you read the link I offered earlier?

I'll save you delving for the relevant bit...

"What soon became clear is that, as well as being remarkable value for money, this system deserves to be used with pretty good speakers. Having tried it with several of the usual suspects in the £150-£300 arena, I finally settled on the PMC GB1 speakers (normally used on the rear channels of my surround system) for most of the testing.

That’s a pair of speakers selling for over £1500, yet the Marantz system proved more than capable of both driving them and making them sound rather special. A brief listen to the system with the smaller DB1s suggested these would also be a suitable pairing, and represent a useful saving, but it’s a tribute to the capabilities of the little Marantz system that it’s far from outclassed by speakers this good."

Now I don't aspire to speakers of the calibre of PMC GB1s but my 89dB Rega R3s sound "rather special" with the M-CR603 as well. (And I used another pair of Rega R3s for 6 months when I first got the Naim system back in 2009 so I know what they sound like with both systems.)

 

[Cypher]

I agree with overdose. They should bring out a MCR603 with the power output of a PM6004 amp.

The MCR603 can maybe drive a couple of speakers well but the control just isn't there. Not like a PM6004 amp controls the speakers.

Just my opinion again

 

[cheeseboy]

I think it's great that chebby is enjoying his mcr603 so much and doesn't feel the need to buy something else. That's a thing many people strive for.

I have to admit, I did a similar thing to chebby quite a while ago and actually found my enjoyment of music increased immensely when I wasn't worrying about the equipment.

Not saying it's for everybody mind, each to their own etc

 

[BigH]

I agree with overdose. They should bring out a MCR603 with the power output of a PM6004 amp.

The MCR603 can maybe drive a couple of speakers well but the control just isn't there. Not like a PM6004 amp controls the speakers.

Just my opinion again

I thought they ahd the same power output?

Many say the 6004 is not very powerful.

 

[chebby]

I agree with overdose. They should bring out a MCR603 with the power output of a PM6004 amp.

The MCR603 can maybe drive a couple of speakers well but the control just isn't there. Not like a PM6004 amp controls the speakers.

Just my opinion again

So what speakers have you tried with the M-CR603? (I only ask as you state it is 'just an opinion'.)

 

[Cypher]

The monitor audio BX2 and the Dali Zensor 1. Tried them both with a MCR603.

Also tried them with a Marantz PM6004/CD6004 combination and also with what I have now, a pioneer A-30/Beresford DAC.

I'm sorry i don't agree with you but for me there's no comparison. The separates are in a different league.

 

[relocated]

Being happy, contented, just passes so many people by. For all the different boxes and cables and everything else, they still don't know what contentment is all about.

Some will always cry out that seperates are essential, because they have audiophile pretentions disproportunate to their listening experience. The problem with many opinions on sound quality is that they are based on too little experience generally and specifically.

Chebby tells of his experience based on hundreds/thousands of hours of use of a product. So who else has sufficient experience to counter what he says? Particularly given that he doesn't come from ignorance of the alternative way.

As so often happens, and has been highlighted by others, people seek to make authorative statements about hifi based on brief encounters in unsatisfactory surroundings or god-help-us regurgitate 'reviews'.

Enjoyment should be what it is all about and it seems that the most enjoyment is had by those that put the music before the angst of equipment.

 

[BigH]

Also tried them with a Marantz PM6004/CD6004 combination and also with what I have now, a pioneer A-30/Beresford DAC.

I'm sorry i don't agree with you but for me there's no comparison. The separates are in a different league.

What speakers do you have?

 

[Cypher]

Also tried them with a Marantz PM6004/CD6004 combination and also with what I have now, a pioneer A-30/Beresford DAC.

I'm sorry i don't agree with you but for me there's no comparison. The separates are in a different league.

What speakers do you have?

Dali Zensor 1.

 

[Cypher]

Being happy, contented, just passes so many people by. For all the different boxes and cables and everything else, they still don't know what contentment is all about.

Some will always cry out that seperates are essential, because they have audiophile pretentions disproportunate to their listening experience. The problem with many opinions on sound quality is that they are based on too little experience generally and specifically.

Chebby tells of his experience based on hundreds/thousands of hours of use of a product. So who else has sufficient experience to counter what he says? Particularly given that he doesn't come from ignorance of the alternative way.

As so often happens, and has been highlighted by others, people seek to make authorative statements about hifi based on brief encounters in unsatisfactory surroundings or god-help-us regurgitate 'reviews'.

Enjoyment should be what it is all about and it seems that the most enjoyment is had by those that put the music before the angst of equipment.

I agree 100%. But have you read the topic title...................that´s what´s this topic is about. There are people who think there is a lot of difference and people who don´t. I´d say good luck to both of them.

 

[BigH]

Dali Zensor 1.

It would be an interesting comparison between your separates and Dalis against the 603 and Rega RS3s, I would probably put my money on the 603.

 

[Cypher]

Dali Zensor 1.

It would be an interesting comparison between your separates and Dalis against the 603 and Rega RS3s, I would probably put my money on the 603.

Maybe. But if you connect the Rega RS3 to the Pioneer A30 amp you will get even better sound.

 

[Overdose]

If a mini system existed that had the capability to control and drive very good speakers...

Did you read the link I offered earlier?

I'll save you delving for the relevant bit...

Thanks, I'm all for saving time. I wasn't suggesting that mini systems weren't capable of driving any particular speaker, but by virtue of the fact that they have limited power amplification, they will not realise the potential of the speakers attached. Listening at quieter volumes would not necessarily reveal any limitations though, but start to crank it up and those limitations will show. That's what I was getting at and it would have been clearer if you hadn't quoted me out of context.

I'm not knocking mini systems, far from it, as I think they can offer what most people will ever need.

 

[matthewpiano]

All I can say is that the Pioneer A10 and PD10 must be something very special because most seperates I've heard at that sort of price have been nothing to shout home about. Some have been pretty awful, simply trading on the fact that they are seperates, like the Cambridge Audio Topaz series. I also remember buying a Marantz PM4001 amp and ending up returning it because it was so un-inspiring to listen to. Just because something is split into seperate boxes it doesn't necessarily mean it wil be any good to listen to.

 

[Cypher]

But why is it that people want to have one box instead of two or three ? If you are a bit serious about your music why is space a problem ?

Or is it just nicer to look at ?

Educate me

 

[Overdose]

But why is it that people want to have one box instead of two or three ? If you are a bit serious about your music why is space a problem ?

Or is it just nicer to look at ?

Educate me

You could just as easily ask 'why multiple boxes when one would do?'.

Personal preference I guess,

I'm not sure how you would quantify being 'serious about your music', but you could also argue that anyone who was really serious (frowny face and everything), would just get on with listening and not obsess about the equipment.

 

[Cypher]

But why is it that people want to have one box instead of two or three ? If you are a bit serious about your music why is space a problem ?

Or is it just nicer to look at ?

Educate me

You could just as easily ask 'why multiple boxes when one would do?'.

Personal preference I guess,

I'm not sure how you would quantify being 'serious about your music', but you could also argue that anyone who was really serious (frowny face and everything), would just get on with listening and not obsess about the equipment.

You have a good point there. I agree.

That sentence I used (serious about your music) is a bit stupid and arrogant sounding. Sorry about that.

 

[matthewpiano]

But why is it that people want to have one box instead of two or three ? If you are a bit serious about your music why is space a problem ?

Or is it just nicer to look at ?

Educate me

I think it has more to do with balancing life and hi-fi rather than whether or not someone is serious about music. I'm really not sure that a lot of the hi-fi swapping and upgrading necessarily has all that much to do with being serious about music. Certainly it can get in the way of focusing on, and enjoying, the music. There is no doubt that it has for me on many occasions.

 

[Cypher]

All I can say is that the Pioneer A10 and PD10 must be something very special because most seperates I've heard at that sort of price have been nothing to shout home about. Some have been pretty awful, simply trading on the fact that they are seperates, like the Cambridge Audio Topaz series. I also remember buying a Marantz PM4001 amp and ending up returning it because it was so un-inspiring to listen to. Just because something is split into seperate boxes it doesn't necessarily mean it wil be any good to listen to.

Have you thought about this one Matthew ?

http://www.teac-audio.eu/en/products/np-h750-92377.html

It has no cd player though.

 

[Cypher]

But why is it that people want to have one box instead of two or three ? If you are a bit serious about your music why is space a problem ?

Or is it just nicer to look at ?

Educate me

I think it has more to do with balancing life and hi-fi rather than whether or not someone is serious about music. I'm really not sure that a lot of the hi-fi swapping and upgrading necessarily has all that much to do with being serious about music. Certainly it can get in the way of focusing on, and enjoying, the music. There is no doubt that it has for me on many occasions.

I agree. As I mentioned earlier that comment was just stupid.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Cypher isn't too far wrong. Good amplifiers need large transformers and also decent cooling. Unless you use a fan, that means solid blocks of finned metal. Further, if they're Class A, they need adequate ventilation all the time since they run hot. Valves, of course, are a no-no for all-in-ones, they produce far too much heat. All of which means that if you want a decent quality amp, all-in-ones force too many compromises on the designer. Yes, there is Class D, but that is still not used as much as it might be, and whether it is better than AB or valve is a moot point.

CD players are less of a problem, since they're mostly empty space. Basically, if you want true HiFi, there are only a few all-in-ones that fill the bill, and they don't come cheap.

 

[BigH]

Actually a lot of people do want to reduce boxes and are still serious about the sound, if I could have 1 box instead of 4 or 5 then great. I'm hoping to replace my cdp with a DB dvd player that will play cds and dvds then I will only have 2 boxes under the TV, (the other being a Humax HDR).

 

[steve_1979]

I'm not sure how you would quantify being 'serious about your music', but you could also argue that anyone who was really serious (frowny face and everything)...

:rofl: