How important are the following to you...

[BigH]

What influence do reviews have on the Sound Quality?

 

[CnoEvil]

What influence do reviews have on the Sound Quality?

None...but it may have an influence over one's perception of SQ

 

[BigH]

What influence do reviews have on the Sound Quality?

None...but it may have an influence over one's perception of SQ

Yes thats what I meant.

 

[CnoEvil]

What influence do reviews have on the Sound Quality?

None...but it may have an influence over one's perception of SQ

Yes thats what I meant.

Sorry, I'm having one of those days, where I keep grabbing the pointy end of the stick.

 

[BigH]

What influence do reviews have on the Sound Quality?

None...but it may have an influence over one's perception of SQ

Yes thats what I meant.

Sorry, I'm having one of those days, where I keep grabbing the pointy end of the stick.

Its OK, what I meant is how much do reviews influence peoples perception of sound?

I know a lot of hifi is sold on the back of 5 star reviews.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Except the ones that you buy with your eyes (aesthetics) and by reading the measurements (power consumption / rating) and choosing a respected brand (lots to choose from in Europe, Japan, USA)

Interestingly, there's a thread on Pink Fish, where one of their members replaced his beautifully modern Devialet (which he very much liked), with a Jadis Orchestra Valve amp, which he prefers. Long Live Valves!

Interesting....

When I bought my Devialet, I just couldn't let go of my Unison Research S8. So I now have two systems and enjoy them both equally. The Devialet/Focal system has transparency, depth, massive detail and sounds glorious. The Unison Research/Chord/Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M system is much more intimate but it has 'soul'. It's also interesting to swap the components around, but in the main, the two set-ups stay as described as that seems to be where the most synergy is.

 

[CnoEvil]

Its OK, what I meant is how much do reviews influence peoples perception of sound?

I know a lot of hifi is sold on the back of 5 star reviews.

I know a few dealers, who will all tell you that you get some "star hunters" and no amount of suggestions will put them off their path.

I think there are several reasons for this:

-There are those who think that a professional reviewer's ears must be better...so they simply don't trust their own.

- It's easier to let somone else tell you what's better, rather than putting the time and effort in, to find out for yourself.

- Some are under the illusion that buying Hifi is no different to purchasing a Dishwasher.

 

[SteveR750]

For me it's SQ 8/10 at the beginning at least.

The majority of changes I've made have been sparked by something about the synergy of my system not being quite right, or being deficient in some aspect that I like.  (The other 2/10 allows for functional updates like going from DVD to Bluray).

My recent speaker change was prompted initially by the overblown and slow bass problems I had with my previous speakers in my listening room.  In every other respect I was very happy with them.

?

But once that process began and I started to look for something that ticked my SQ boxes (tight controlled bass, generally a fast detailed speaker), then certainly aesthetics and price came into play.  I've not heard the new curved ATC's, but they would have been on my shortlist had it not been for that chicken-wire grill, particularly against the wood finish - I just don't think I could look at that every day.

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I generally like to think of myself as being a discerning buyer (don't we all), but I do find it hard to overlook a bargain.  My GX50's/GXC150 were on my shortlist for the future anyway, but when they were reduced by a third to make way for the new iteration, well I fell for that one straight away.

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Had they not been reduced, I would have taken a lot more time demo'ing and comparing with alternatives.  And the aesthetics (which are exceptional IMO - just a wonderful fit and finish, beautiful but understated elegance at the same time) did sway me too.

?

As I stated in another thread, has anyone actually bought a Cyrus Lyric?!

You could always remove the grills? They're much more effective at stopping small children and pets damaging tweeters.

 

[matt49]

Except the ones that you buy with your eyes (aesthetics) and by reading the measurements (power consumption / rating) and choosing a respected brand (lots to choose from in Europe, Japan, USA)

Interestingly, there's a thread on Pink Fish, where one of their members replaced his beautifully modern Devialet (which he very much liked), with a Jadis Orchestra Valve amp, which he prefers. Long Live Valves!

It's interesting not least because PFM has become something of a Devialet stronghold over the last six months. There are about 7 or 8 long-term posters who've switched to the Deviant side.

For myself, I've switched from Devialet in my main system. I found the Dev couldn't drive my Martin Logans properly. I had an interesting demo of some valve kit at home about 2 months ago, but a big US solid state amp (Sanders Magtech, 500wpc) is the best power amp I've found for the MLs.

Having said that, I still believe that the Dev is the best amp in town for driving electrodynamic speakers. I wouldn't deny the attraction of valves, but I find they do something weird to acoustic instruments, a bit like adding loads of vibrato. It annoys me over anything more than 10 minutes.

Cno, do you post on PFM? Haven't seen you over there.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, do you post on PFM? Haven't seen you over there.

No, but I like to keep an eye on what's happening there. It has a big font of knowledge....as well as all the usual arguments.

If you get the chance, you should get a listen to some VTL Mono Blocks....they completely shatter the stereotypes that some have about the sound of Valves.

 

[tino]

Interesting that a lot of two or three (expensive) system owners have commented ... do you use the same criteria for each system you own? I believe in having some variety and different criteria for each ... my Wadia is the daily driver ... a small, efficient, good soundīng music machine, and when driven by the Squeezebox is a breeze to use. The valve amp I own was chosen as a centrepiece, for occasional use. A lot of criteria for a daily system went out of the window, and it was bought for its sound quality / sound difference (compared to the Wadia), aesthetics and because of the brand (Unison Research). It's a bit more of a faff to use and maintain, but tolerable for the pleasure it gives.

 

[matt49]

If you get the chance, you should get a listen to some VTL Mono Blocks....they completely shatter the stereotypes that some have about the sound of Valves.

Are they very very expensive?

One of the objections I have to valves is a purely practical one. Our hi-fi is used by people (wife and teenage daughters) who won't turn kit off after use. Solid state is therefore the only way to go for us.

Interesting that a lot of two or three (expensive) system owners have commented ... do you use the same criteria for each system you own? I believe in having some variety and different criteria for each ... my Wadia is the daily driver ... a small, efficient, good soundīng music machine, and when driven by the Squeezebox is a breeze to use. The valve amp I own was chosen as a centrepiece, for occasional use. A lot of criteria for a daily system went out of the window, and it was bought for its sound quality / sound difference (compared to the Wadia), aesthetics and because of the brand (Unison Research). It's a bit more of a faff to use and maintain, but tolerable for the pleasure it gives.

Interesting question. I know some people who own multiple systems like a variety of sound: and I can totally understand that. My current approach is to get the most accurate system that suits the room it's in. Which comes down to speakers in the end. Having said that, I realize I'm still experimenting and may be doing so for some time yet ...

 

[matt49]

Cno, do you post on PFM? Haven't seen you over there.

No, but I like to keep an eye on what's happening there. It has a big font of knowledge....as well as all the usual arguments.

The objectivists on PFM seem much more knowledgeable than the ones over here. There are some folk over there who'd make mincemeat of TrevC, IMO. It's more fun over here though.

 

[tino]

One of the objections I have to valves is a purely practical one. Our hi-fi is used by people (wife and teenage daughters) who won't turn kit off after use. Solid state is therefore the only way to go for us ...

... My current approach is to get the most accurate system that suits the room it's in. Which comes down to speakers in the end. Having said that, I realize I'm still experimenting and may be doing so for some time yet ...

Maybe the Phantoms are for you ;-)

I'm wondering whether an AV receiver is the way to go for a living room ... good all rounders with room correction, networking etc. etc.

 

[CnoEvil]

Are they very very expensive?

They go from quite expensive to very espensive:

http://www.kogaudio.com/pdf/VTLprices.pdf

 

[Vladimir]

Cno, do you post on PFM? Haven't seen you over there.

No, but I like to keep an eye on what's happening there. It has a big font of knowledge....as well as all the usual arguments.

The objectivists on PFM seem much more knowledgeable than the ones over here. There are some folk over there who'd make mincemeat of TrevC, IMO. It's more fun over here though.

You should join the ultimate objectivist forum - Hydrogen audio. It feels like swiming in formaldehyde.

 

[matt49]

Cno, do you post on PFM? Haven't seen you over there.

No, but I like to keep an eye on what's happening there. It has a big font of knowledge....as well as all the usual arguments.

The objectivists on PFM seem much more knowledgeable than the ones over here. There are some folk over there who'd make mincemeat of TrevC, IMO. It's more fun over here though.

You should join the ultimate objectivist forum - Hydrogen audio. It feels like swiming in formaldehyde.

Yes, been there. About as much fun as chewing your own ears off.

PFM on the other hand can be quite entertaining, and the mods are genuinely nice guys.

 

[ID.]

Interesting that a lot of two or three (expensive) system owners have commented ... do you use the same criteria for each system you own? I believe in having some variety and different criteria for each ... my Wadia is the daily driver ... a small, efficient, good soundīng music machine, and when driven by the Squeezebox is a breeze to use. The valve amp I own was chosen as a centrepiece, for occasional use. A lot of criteria for a daily system went out of the window, and it was bought for its sound quality / sound difference (compared to the Wadia), aesthetics and because of the brand (Unison Research). It's a bit more of a faff to use and maintain, but tolerable for the pleasure it gives.

not everyone has the luxury of owning multiple systems, but I know where you are coming from.

I have a mix myself. My original system put an emphasis on size and convenience. I later got active speakers with an emphasis on resolution and SQ.

now looking to trade in part of my passive system for something that brings the joy of the hunt, a change for the sake of change, a different aesthetic, desire for a brand, and last but not least an improvement in SQ by using a more potent amp to see what it does for my speakers.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's interesting not least because PFM has become something of a Devialet stronghold over the last six months. There are about 7 or 8 long-term posters who've switched to the Deviant side.

I still haven't heard one, but some of the more negative comments exactly address my theoretical concerns ie. A sound that is very clean and detailed, but a little sterile and uninvolving...but this is where speaker matching is crucial.

 

[matt49]

It's interesting not least because PFM has become something of a Devialet stronghold over the last six months. There are about 7 or 8 long-term posters who've switched to the Deviant side.

I still haven't heard one, but some of the more negative comments exactly address my theoretical concerns ie. A sound that is very clean and detailed, but a little sterile and uninvolving...but this is where speaker matching is crucial.

Not sure what your theoretical concerns are based on ... It isn't the old Class D chestnut, is it?

 

[CnoEvil]

It's interesting not least because PFM has become something of a Devialet stronghold over the last six months. There are about 7 or 8 long-term posters who've switched to the Deviant side.

I still haven't heard one, but some of the more negative comments exactly address my theoretical concerns ie. A sound that is very clean and detailed, but a little sterile and uninvolving...but this is where speaker matching is crucial.

Not sure what your theoretical concerns are based on ... It isn't the old Class D chestnut, is it?

All the Class D amps that I've heard, have shared similar traits, which are very similar to those highlighted in some of the posts on PFM...so that is what my concern is based on.

 

[matt49]

It's interesting not least because PFM has become something of a Devialet stronghold over the last six months. There are about 7 or 8 long-term posters who've switched to the Deviant side.

I still haven't heard one, but some of the more negative comments exactly address my theoretical concerns ie. A sound that is very clean and detailed, but a little sterile and uninvolving...but this is where speaker matching is crucial.

Not sure what your theoretical concerns are based on ... It isn't the old Class D chestnut, is it?

All the Class D amps that I've heard, have shared similar traits, which are very similar to those highlighted in some of the posts on PFM...so that is what my concern is based on.

Yes, but none of the Devialet's Class D element is present in the output signal, so it ain't really Class D in any meaningful sense. 100% of the signal is formed by a highly linear 1W Class A voltage amp. The Class D current amp is entirely slaved to the Class A amp and not 'visible' to the speakers or eo ipso to the ear.

 

[max337]

SQ 10

- Aesthetics - 9

- Magazine Reviews - 5 - they get me started on the road but are not the deciding factor

- Boredom (just fancy a change) - 0

- Joy of the hunt - 8 - I love the experiment and surprise

- Measurements - 0

- Brand / Reputation - 5

- Forum feedback - 5 - again a good guide, but too subjective to be much of a decider

- Something else?

- Dealer advice - 4

- VFM - 9

- Features - 3

-Energy efficiency - 0

- Unusualness / Rarity - 0

- Funtionality - 4

- Nostalgia - 0

the look, vfm matter a fair deal but if it sounds good, that's the decider.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's interesting not least because PFM has become something of a Devialet stronghold over the last six months. There are about 7 or 8 long-term posters who've switched to the Deviant side.

I still haven't heard one, but some of the more negative comments exactly address my theoretical concerns ie. A sound that is very clean and detailed, but a little sterile and uninvolving...but this is where speaker matching is crucial.

Not sure what your theoretical concerns are based on ... It isn't the old Class D chestnut, is it?

All the Class D amps that I've heard, have shared similar traits, which are very similar to those highlighted in some of the posts on PFM...so that is what my concern is based on.

Yes, but none of the Devialet's Class D element is present in the output signal, so it ain't really Class D in any meaningful sense. 100% of the signal is formed by a highly linear 1W Class A voltage amp. The Class D current amp is entirely slaved to the Class A amp and not 'visible' to the speakers or eo ipso to the ear.

Reading some of the comments played directly into my fears, which won't be allayed until I hear one.

As yet, the only thing that I've heard that sounds like Class A (SS), is a true Class A amp, and that includes AB amps that are highly biased into A....and yes I know, I'm an A-aholic; but we are what we are.

I would align my taste with the Valve users on that site.

 

[matt49]

Reading some of the comments played directly into my fears, which won't be allayed until I hear one.

As yet, the only thing that I've heard that sounds like Class A (SS), is a true Class A amp, and that includes AB amps that are highly biased into A....and yes I know, I'm an A-aholic; but we are what we are.

I would align my taste with the Valve users on that site.

Yes, but valve owners will say the same kind of things about any solid state amp, including Class A. So you kind of shoot yourself in the foot with that one.

With the dishonourable exception of one rank idiot on PFM ('Disbeliever') and a couple of Naim owners (less said the better), I've not heard or read of one person saying they prefer a solid state amp to a Devialet. No Class A owners have chimed in to say their burning beasties are better than a Devialet. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Anyway it matters not. We know in our hearts that we want different things from our systems. Vive la difference etc etc.