How important are the following to you...

[lpv]

SQ - 80%

Aesthetics - 12%

Something else? must sounds really good in my room

Everything else - 1%

Dealer ( of anything) advice - 0%

 

[CnoEvil]

Something else? must sounds really good in my room[/b]

Good job....though this comes under the umbrella of SQ.

 

[CnoEvil]

Another related question: How many of you actually Blind Test when buying a component....or is this something that other people should do?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Sound quality first no matter what the rest are but if its ugly i kind of like it better but if it looks good thats also ok

But also important is value for money and functions

 

[Andrewjvt]

Another related question: How many of you actually Blind Test when buying a component....or is this something that other people should do?
[we all should but how many dealers and customers actually have the tine to do this in the real world without taking a holiday]

 

[steve_1979]

Another related question: How many of you actually Blind Test when buying a component....or is this something that other people should do?

Kind of. I've bought DAC's off the internet without hearing them first but A/B tested them once I got them setup at home and would have sent them back if they weren't audibly transparent.

In shops it's too tricky to do most of the time. They should have A/B switch boxes to help customers make choices IMO.

 

[SteveR750]

Another related question: How many of you actually Blind Test when buying a component....or is this something that other people should do?

Kind of. I've bought DAC's off the internet without hearing them first but A/B tested them once I got them setup at home and would have sent them back if they weren't audibly transparent.

In shops it's too tricky to do most of the time. They should have A/B switch boxes to help customers make choices IMO.

They used to, until some bright spark pointed out they weren't audiophile electronics and were therefore affecting the results....

 

[steve_1979]

Another related question: How many of you actually Blind Test when buying a component....or is this something that other people should do?

Kind of. I've bought DAC's off the internet without hearing them first but A/B tested them once I got them setup at home and would have sent them back if they weren't audibly transparent.

In shops it's too tricky to do most of the time. They should have A/B switch boxes to help customers make choices IMO.

They used to, until some bright spark pointed out they weren't audiophile electronics and were therefore affecting the results....

Or more likely some bright spark realised that an A/B switch boxes are going to make it harder to sell foo.

 

[Vladimir]

Another related question: How many of you actually Blind Test when buying a component....or is this something that other people should do?

Kind of. I've bought DAC's off the internet without hearing them first but A/B tested them once I got them setup at home and would have sent them back if they weren't audibly transparent.

In shops it's too tricky to do most of the time. They should have A/B switch boxes to help customers make choices IMO.

They used to, until some bright spark pointed out they weren't audiophile electronics and were therefore affecting the results....

Quite. The whole idea was to provide a boutique experience to hi-fi shopping, system matching and removing the switch box as an objective tool for assesing sound quality, and by this maximize effectivness of salesmanship, marketing and advertising. This was followed by birth of a new niche industry of 'subjective' reviewing of gear in magazines without taking measurements or blind tests. This shift was spearheaded in UK by Ivor Tiefenbrun and Julian Vereker allegedly by paying reviews, stimulating dealers with high profit margins etc.

They were the outcasts of the game (both failed from engineering school) led by BBC and serious engineering companies gravitating it (KEF, Rogers, Harbeth etc) so they changed the game, they changed the market. Their first products were a Linn turntable (Thorens clone) and Naim amp (kit built from 50's RCA hobby book). Linn was declined the oportunity to build the BBC LS3/5a monitor. They made an unofficial clone, the Linn Kan, which didn't strictly follow the BBC requirements.

 

[ID.]

All of the big stores here seem to use switch boxes that seem to allow for around 30 different speakers, amps and sources or a little more.

 

[lindsayt]

When it comes to my investments in hi-fi, it's a 2 step process.

First I buy the equipment, using very simple criteria.

Secondly I compare it to what I've already got. So that I can decide what I'm going to use the most and what I'm going to keep.

I tried a variety of different approaches over a few years, before settling on my current methodology.

As I've already mentioned on other threads, there are only 4 things I look at when deciding what to buy: a) price when new, (b) weight, (c) average price now (d) price of the particular example I'm thinking of buying.

When I've got the item at home, Cno's list comes into play.

Edited List:

- SQ. Vitally important. If it sounds better than what I've already got, it stays. If it sounds worse it goes. If they're about equally good, the cheaper one or the one with better appreciation prospects stays.

- Aesthetics. Totally unimportant for me. My hi-fi's a tool for getting the best out of my music collection.

- Magazine Reviews. Totally unimportant.

- Boredom (just fancy a change). Nope, never. I'm aiming for improvements, not changes.

- Joy of the hunt. Well sort of. Grabbing a mega bargain is mildly enjoyable.

- Measurements. Some selected measurements are useful, once I've bought something. EG speaker efficiency for matching with type of amplification. Cartridge compliance for matching with tonearm mass.

- Brand / Reputation. Most brand reputations are based on marketing, which may or may not be reflected in sound quality of any particular item I purchase.

- Forum feedback. Nope, not at all. Whatever anyone says about a component will not make it sound any better or worse in my system. The component is what it is. And what it is, as far as I am concerned, will get found out when it's compared to what I've already got.

- Something else? Depreciation / appreciation prospects. Running costs. Likely longevity.

- Dealer advice. No. Not at all.

- VFM. Oh yes, totally. But then VFM is largely filtered in at the purchasing stage.

- Features. On a vinyl source, ergonomic features are a very slight "nice to have". Apart from that, features are only desirable in how they enhance the sound quality. EG volume pots for each driver on my speakers are mild nice to have as they allow a bit of tailoring of the frequency response to suit the room.

-Energy efficiency. Already covered for running costs. As long as my system consumes less electricity than my gaming PC, then energy efficiency is not important to me at all.

- Unusualness / Rarity. Nope. That just tends to be a side effect of my purchasing and evaluation methodology.

- Functionality. It just needs to work and play music well.

- Nostalgia. Nope. Not at all.

 

[Dave_]

Edited List:

- SQ

10/10

- Aesthetics

6/10

- Magazine Reviews

0 - 4/10 (depending on magazine/review method)

- Boredom (just fancy a change)

3/10

- Joy of the hunt

0/10

- Measurements

5/10

- Brand / Reputation

5/10

- Forum feedback

0/10

p>- Dealer advice

0/10

- VFM

9/10

- Features

8/10

-Energy efficiency

4/10

- Unusualness  / Rarity

0/10

- Funtionality

8/10

- Nostalgia

0/10

 

[drummerman]

Without Thompson, TrevC and Anderson these threads lose their charm.

You are right. So, as I feel me and TrevC/Anderson think very much alike ... I have taken the liberty of answering for the two in their absence;

TrevC

Boredom (to busy fighting foo)

Joy of the hunt (you are kidding aren't you?)

Aesthetics 5% (function over form. I can totally recommend paper disposable underpants)

Sound Quality 0% (who really cares as long as it measures well)

Magazine Reviews 0%/100% (only if the measurements are good)

Brand/Reputation 100% (but only if it is German 'cause they are purrfect)

Forum feedback (you are kidding aren't you? Feedback? I am always right)

Anderson

I agree with everything TrevC just said

 

[matt49]

- SQ 10/10

- Aesthetics 1/10 (electronics), 8/10 (speakers)

- Magazine Reviews 2/10 (for shortlisting, not for the purchase)

- Boredom (just fancy a change) 0/10

- Joy of the hunt 0/10

- Measurements 6/10

- Brand / Reputation 7/10 (I understand this mainly to mean reliability)

- Forum feedback 2/10 (for shortlisting, not for the purchase)

- Something else? Fit to the room (speakers): 9/10

- Dealer advice 0/10

- VFM 10/10

- Features 10/10

-Energy efficiency 1/10

- Unusualness / Rarity 0/10

- Funtionality 10/10

- Nostalgia 0/10

 

[SteveR750]

Another related question: How many of you actually Blind Test when buying a component....or is this something that other people should do?

Kind of. I've bought DAC's off the internet without hearing them first but A/B tested them once I got them setup at home and would have sent them back if they weren't audibly transparent.

In shops it's too tricky to do most of the time. They should have A/B switch boxes to help customers make choices IMO.

They used to, until some bright spark pointed out they weren't audiophile electronics and were therefore affecting the results....

Or more likely some bright spark realised that an A/B switch boxes are going to make it harder to sell foo.

I seem to recall that it was the magazines of the day also perpetuated this myth, as well as Linn and Naim as per Vlad's comments.

 

[SteveR750]

- SQ 90%

- Aesthetics 1%

- Magazine Reviews 1%

- Boredom (just fancy a change) 0

- Joy of the hunt 1%

- Measurements 5.5%

- Brand / Reputation 1%

- Forum feedback 0.5%

 

[iQ Speakers]

It's just like buying a house.

Sound quality - sound quality - sound quality - everything else is so secondary

tonky

...but how secondary.

eg. Would you buy something that had been hit with the ugly stick, that got hot enough to fry an egg, sucked 400W from the mains as soon as it's switched on and was from a brand with a poor reputation?

Apart from poor reputation you could be describing my new power amplifier

I like your style.

My amp is not a million miles away, either.

I will let you be the judge on this one!! Coll I think now its up and running and superb its deserves a pretty case, which will probally cast more the the amp!

 

[SteveR750]

Without Thompson, TrevC and Anderson these threads lose their charm.

You are right. So, as I feel me and TrevC/Anderson think very much alike ... I have taken the liberty of answering for the two in their absence;

TrevC

Boredom (to busy fighting foo)

Joy of the hunt (you are kidding aren't you?)

Aesthetics 5% (function over form. I can totally recommend paper disposable underpants)

Sound Quality 0% (who really cares as long as it measures well)

Magazine Reviews 0%/100% (only if the measurements are good)

Brand/Reputation 100% (but only if it is German 'cause they are purrfect)

Forum feedback (you are kidding aren't you? Feedback? I am always right)

Anderson

I agree with everything TrevC just said

Where are they? Have I missed something, other than their apparently cloned offspring asking about speakers?

 

[Leeps]

For me it's SQ 8/10 at the beginning at least.

The majority of changes I've made have been sparked by something about the synergy of my system not being quite right, or being deficient in some aspect that I like. (The other 2/10 allows for functional updates like going from DVD to Bluray).

My recent speaker change was prompted initially by the overblown and slow bass problems I had with my previous speakers in my listening room. In every other respect I was very happy with them.

But once that process began and I started to look for something that ticked my SQ boxes (tight controlled bass, generally a fast detailed speaker), then certainly aesthetics and price came into play. I've not heard the new curved ATC's, but they would have been on my shortlist had it not been for that chicken-wire grill, particularly against the wood finish - I just don't think I could look at that every day.

I generally like to think of myself as being a discerning buyer (don't we all), but I do find it hard to overlook a bargain. My GX50's/GXC150 were on my shortlist for the future anyway, but when they were reduced by a third to make way for the new iteration, well I fell for that one straight away.

Had they not been reduced, I would have taken a lot more time demo'ing and comparing with alternatives. And the aesthetics (which are exceptional IMO - just a wonderful fit and finish, beautiful but understated elegance at the same time) did sway me too.

As I stated in another thread, has anyone actually bought a Cyrus Lyric?!

 

[CnoEvil]

Re Switchboxes:

I don't know how many of you are old enough to have bought equipment using switchboxes, but in NI (and I believe in the rest of the UK), these were confined to some big box-shifting stores. There was usually a large showroom, with all the speakers lined up on shelves along one wall. You chose the speakers you wanted to listen to, a button was pressed and music came out of the speakers and amp you wanted to hear. In the shop I tried, there wasn't even a seat. Totally useless.

At that time, a good specialist dealer would have dedicated listening rooms and carry in the kit you wanted to listen to. You sat in comfort, with a coffee (and the music you had brought) and made your selection without pressure. Any unused speakers were always taken out of the room.

These two methods ran in parallel....one didn't replace the other.

DDC is the man who is best placed to give insight, as he was a dealer during that time.

 

[CnoEvil]

Re Switchboxes:

I don't know how many of you are old enough to have bought equipment using switchboxes, but in NI (and I believe in the rest of the UK), these were confined to some big box-shifting stores. There was usually a large showroom, with all the speakers lined up on shelves along one wall. You chose the speakers you wanted to listen to, a button was pressed and music came out of the speakers and amp you wanted to hear. In the shop I tried, there wasn't even a seat. Totally useless.

At that time, a good specialist dealer would have dedicated listening rooms and carry in the kit you wanted to listen to. You sat in comfort, with a coffee (and the music you had brought) and made your selection without pressure. Any unused speakers were always taken out of the room.

These two methods ran in parallel....one didn't replace the other.

DDC is the man who is best placed to give insight, as he was a dealer during that time.

Yes. Specialist stores had trained staff and handpicked inventory unlike big electronics stores so you had your dealer helping you assemble a system, no switchbox needed. The story goes Linn and Naim went to those specialist stores, partnered with the dealers, hired hi-fi journalists and focused on advertising that discredits big electronic stores, switch boxes, Japanese manufacturers etc. Number of specialist shops significantly increased after that, contraversial subjective mag reviews became mainstream, and since these manufacturers didn't have any serious engineering talent, began inventing audiophile cables, system synergy, endless forms of upgrades and tweaks, special racks, isolation pads etc. anything that can drain more money from the audio enthusiast.

Hi-Fi boutiquing means that the technically ignorant banker, dentist or lawyer can play with these electronics, stacking Naim boxes, changing Linn tonearms. Before that era an audio enthusiast was essentially a DIY guy who assembled kit and needed to read and learn a thing or two about electronics and mechanics.

I think Dave has confirmed this on several ocassions in posts with interesting humorous examples about paid reviews, Naim power supply upgrades and the birth of Tara Labs. I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory or revisionist history, but its just how business is done.

I know what happened, as I was buying and reading about Hifi from about 1976 onwards.

My point has nothing to do with the dubious marketing tactics of Linn and Naim during that time, but that the demise of switchboxes is not something to mourn over.

I still believe that Hifi is best selected from a knowledgeable, specialist dealer, in a dedicated listening room.

Dave has also confirmed that some of his hand picked systems knocked the spots off any challengers....but that was before all the marketing hype kicked in.

 

[Vladimir]

Re Switchboxes:

I don't know how many of you are old enough to have bought equipment using switchboxes, but in NI (and I believe in the rest of the UK), these were confined to some big box-shifting stores. There was usually a large showroom, with all the speakers lined up on shelves along one wall. You chose the speakers you wanted to listen to, a button was pressed and music came out of the speakers and amp you wanted to hear. In the shop I tried, there wasn't even a seat. Totally useless.

At that time, a good specialist dealer would have dedicated listening rooms and carry in the kit you wanted to listen to. You sat in comfort, with a coffee (and the music you had brought) and made your selection without pressure. Any unused speakers were always taken out of the room.

These two methods ran in parallel....one didn't replace the other.

DDC is the man who is best placed to give insight, as he was a dealer during that time.

Yes. Specialist stores had trained staff and handpicked inventory unlike big electronics stores so you had your dealer helping you assemble a system, no switchbox needed. L&N didn't convince the big elec. stores to throw away the switch boxes. They went to those, at the time still scarce, specialist stores, partnered with the dealers, hired hi-fi journalists and focused on advertising that discredits big electronic stores, switch boxes, Japanese manufacturers etc. Number of specialist shops significantly increased after that as more enthusiast demanded system matching and auditioning done in a boutique fashion. In addition contraversial subjective mag reviews became mainstream, and since these manufacturers didn't have any serious engineering talent, they began inventing audiophile cables, system synergy, endless forms of upgrades and tweaks, special racks, isolation pads etc. anything that can drain more money from the audio enthusiast. Manufacturers like Linn and Naimm produced audio foo and the dealers sold it at huge margins. Boutique Hi-Fi and foo go hand in hand, no big stores sold any of it.

Hi-Fi boutiquing means that the technically ignorant banker, dentist or lawyer can play with these electronics, stacking Naim boxes, changing Linn tonearms. Before that era an audio enthusiast was essentially a DIY guy alone in his shed who assembled kit and needed to read and learn a thing or two about electronics, mechanics, soldering and woodworking.

I think Dave has confirmed this on several ocassions in posts with interesting humorous examples about paid reviews, Naim power supply upgrades and the birth of Tara Labs. I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory or revisionist history, but its just how business is done.

When Naim would put out an amp on the market that failed, buzzed or whatever, they would remedy it with foo, not with customer care, warranties, engineering and service. Oh sir it has to buzz when you do your laundry, its good for sound fidelity. Oh sir, of course it exploded. You should have bought our special cable with high capacitance that acts like a zobel we didn't put in the amp for higher sound fidelity. Etc. Oh and the endless refurbishing you had to do every 5-10 years. Sir it has to be done for accurate sound, like tuning your watch at the watchmaker. Well if they didn't use donkey old technology (tantalum capacitors, Class B circuit from the 50's) no maintanance would be required. But people are so gullible... caveat emptor.

 

[TrevC]

It's just like buying a house.

Sound quality - sound quality - sound quality - everything else is so secondary

tonky

...but how secondary.

eg. Would you buy something that had been hit with the ugly stick, that got hot enough to fry an egg, sucked 400W from the mains as soon as it's switched on and was from a brand with a poor reputation?

Most valve amplifiers are in that category.

 

[tino]

eg. Would you buy something that had been hit with the ugly stick, that got hot enough to fry an egg, sucked 400W from the mains as soon as it's switched on and was from a brand with a poor reputation?

Most valve amplifiers are in that category.

Except the ones that you buy with your eyes (aesthetics) and by reading the measurements (power consumption / rating) and choosing a respected brand (lots to choose from in Europe, Japan, USA)

 

[CnoEvil]

Except the ones that you buy with your eyes (aesthetics) and by reading the measurements (power consumption / rating) and choosing a respected brand (lots to choose from in Europe, Japan, USA)

Interestingly, there's a thread on Pink Fish, where one of their members replaced his beautifully modern Devialet (which he very much liked), with a Jadis Orchestra Valve amp, which he prefers. Long Live Valves!