How critical are HDMI cables?

[StanleyAV]

I am hoping I don't get flamed here[*-)] Like WhatHifi reviewers I can see and hear differences with HDMI cables[:O]

But is every cable choice critical in a setup? After experimenting with my Panasonic Z1, I am not so sure. I started out using the HDMI freebies that Panasonic give you and they do a competent job, sometimes skin tones can be a bit yeuch but that was commented upon in some reviews of the Z1.

I bought a Sony flat HDMI lead and substituted that for the link between tuner box and display. I wasn't totally convinced by this lead to be honest, quite different in character to the free one, but perhaps a little soft, and colours muted perhaps? After a few days I became more convinced of its merits, particularly with HD material. OK nothing unusual so far. Still using the free short HDMI links to link tuner box and satellite receiver (Humax FoxSat HDR).

Today I replaced the Sony flat HDMI with Supra HF100, hmmm, having got used to the Sony lead, I could see that while natural there was a deficit in sharpness now with this quality round type lead. Panasonic's suffer from contouring issues, this was much less pronounced on the Sony lead than the Supra hmmmm

OK, I can acknowledge cable differences but that isn't what this thread is about. I next swapped the freebie HDMI connecting satellite receiver to tuner box, with the Sony Flat lead. The only perceivable difference was an increase in sharpness and NOTHING ELSE!!

This point is quite salient, the input cables of receiving equipment, such as AV amps or tuner boxes for some TVs (e.g. Pioneer plasma or Philips Essential etc) may not be as critical as the main output cable from that device. The ONLY perceived difference in picture performance was sharpness which was because a better shielded cable was used. There are many modestly priced well shielded HDMI cables that would suffice for input cable duties without breaking the bank.

What Hifi is of the opinion HDMI cables affect audio, and I have noticed that too. There must surely be cables out there that satisfy both criteria i.e well shielded and good audio at a reasonable price. A worrying thought what if the really expensive cables are REALLY, REALLY SHARP!?[:#]

That leaves us with choosing the right HDMI for output to projector or TV. With AV amp or Tuner box governing audio, only picture quality is of paramount importance. Not all HDMIs excel at audio, but that becomes of little importance here. You can splash out on a stupidly priced cable here![6] This is the only one that has critical affect on picture performance.[]

For those not using an AV amp or similar setup, i.e. just sources connected to TV, unfortunately all HDMI cables will be of importance for the picture. DAMN![]

 

[Simon Lucas]

StanleyAV:I am hoping I don't get flamed here

Good luck with that.

 

[idc]

Now get someone to do a blind test on you to see if the differences are real or perceived.

 

[The_Lhc]

StanleyAV: The ONLY perceived difference in picture performance was sharpness which was because a better shielded cable was used.

That's a pretty definitive statement. How do you know?

 

[idc]

the_lhc:StanleyAV: The ONLY perceived difference in picture performance was sharpness which was because a better shielded cable was used.

That's a pretty definitive statement. How do you know?

Furthermore, why use cables to adjust the TV settings? Why not use the TV settings themselves?

 

[JohnHolmes]

EDITED BY MODS - please do not discuss moderation

 

[StanleyAV]

I will quote you what one poster (Alan Whitehead ) on another site has to say about HDMI cable differences :

"I think suggesting that the perceived differences in the review are entirely subjective and that the reviewer is imagining it all is just a bit insulting!

Yes the signal is digital and yes, if it arrives intact, then we should see a perfect picture. But to agree with that, I'd want to see an analysis of every component in the signal train and its susceptibility to noise. The differences between cables is not just the signals they are susposed to carry but all the cross-talk, reflections and interference that arrives with the desired signal.

It's my guess that some TVs are more susceptible to noise than others and that a more interesting test would be to compare a set of HDMI cables against a range of different screens. I'd bet that some screens would show no observable differences between cables whereas others might show quite large differences. "

I'm expressing my opinion and what I have found to work for me. I wish there was some sound science to support this all, then we could settle this nonsense once and for all. I suspect in many cases poor AC mains setup is swamping observation of cable differences; I am running my kit on an isolated mains spur on a second fuse box - normal practise for hifi enthusiasts

Maybe one day WhatHifi will be able to technically analyse such differences?

 

[Anonymous]

Over short runs - If there was to be any difference it would be in a poor cable - where every now and then u would see the odd pixel that doesnt look right.

The whole picture will not look better/worse with brighter colours or whatever.

With longer runs - cables become much more important.

 

[hammill]

StanleyAV:

was some sound science to support this all, then we could settle this nonsense once and for all. I suspect in many cases poor AC mains setup is swamping observation of cable differences; I am running my kit on an isolated mains spur on a second fuse box - normal practise for hifi enthusiasts

Maybe one day WhatHifi will be able to technically analyse such differences?

Although I do not have a dedicated spur, my hifi is on a ring that is only shared with a bedroom, so when I am listening to it, there is nothing on the ring but the hifi. I have also recently installed a Belkin PF30 so my mains should be pretty good (not that there ever seemed to be a problem but for £18.62, why not give it a whirl). I still cannot tell the difference between my 5* chord HDMI cable and the freebies that came with my Oppo 83 and Humax freesat PVR. I have a 5090 and RS6 5:1 set up with an Onkyo 875.

 

[StanleyAV]

hammill:StanleyAV:

was some sound science to support this all, then we could settle this nonsense once and for all. I suspect in many cases poor AC mains setup is swamping observation of cable differences; I am running my kit on an isolated mains spur on a second fuse box - normal practise for hifi enthusiasts

Maybe one day WhatHifi will be able to technically analyse such differences?

Although I do not have a dedicated spur, my hifi is on a ring that is only shared with a bedroom, so when I am listening to it, there is nothing on the ring but the hifi. I have also recently installed a Belkin PF30 so my mains should be pretty good (not that there ever seemed to be a problem but for £18.62, why not give it a whirl). I still cannot tell the difference between my 5* chord HDMI cable and the freebies that came with my Oppo 83 and Humax freesat PVR. I have a 5090 and RS6 5:1 set up with an Onkyo 875.

Mr Whitehead did speculate that some equipment may be more immune to cable differences than others. A parallel would be how resistant some D/A converters are to CD transport induced jitter. I have yet to find a Panasonic plasma that did not react to cables' differences.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Again we appear to be discussing a topic on another site's forum. Can we leave such discussion to the site in question, please?

 

[StanleyAV]

No Andrew this is not the case : look at my first entry : I wanted to discuss HDMI performance. This one web user had something interesting to say on the subject. It's not always possible to look at topics in complete isolation from the rest of the world. Even academics do research and quote sources.

If you note I started off talking about my own experiences, and nobody has suggested what I have before!!

 

[Anonymous]

I don't get it. Why should expensive cables be better than cheaper ones?

It's transmitting digitals signals, so it works or it doesn't.... There might be some exeptional cases of lost bits, but for short distances I don't think that there should be a problem.

There seems to be a whole industry risen that makes customer believe that very expensive cables are better. I've seen on the net even powercords starting from 3000 euros (divide by 1.2 for pounds). Rediculous, as the power wires in the walls are just plain electrical wires and are much longer. (but that's another discussion).

That's just how I think about it.

 

[Andrew Everard]

You really haven't thought about it very much, have you?

 

[007L2Thrill]

Andrew Everard:You really haven't thought about it very much, have you?

 

[Anonymous]

You wont see any problems with short cables.

If u were to see problems caused by packet loss they would be evident as sparklies - the odd pixel looking incorrect.

Any sound problems can be rectified by the error correction which is a trivial task in terms of overhead.