Horrible experience with Q Acoustics 2020i

[Broner]

I don't think he's a liar or incompetent or that his phone is more than a few dbs inaccurate. Do you?

I've used a phone app to measure dBs that turned out to be incredibly inaccurate (by more than 10 dBs), but more importantly, the OP didn't measure the volume with the QA speakers, but with his current setup. All in all, the current measurements tell us very little of his actual use of the QA speakers.

We, however, do know that the OP likes to turn the amp up quite a bit, until the point that he starts hearing unpleasant sounds (which were absent at lower volumes), and subsequently goes on using the speakers at a high volume level for another 150-200 hours (hoping that the sounds will disappear over time).

Ps chill.

Even if his phone app is measuring the SPL 13 dbs on the low side, that still leaves us with peak listening levels of 95dbs, which would be less than 10 watts with the 2020i's. That's still below the clipping level of his amp.

I once refoamed a bass cone. Not very well because the voice coil wasn't centred in the gap. At volumes of 50 dbs it sounded fine. Turn the volumes up to 80 dbs and you'd get horrible scraping, cracking noises on certain bass notes. 80 dbs on those speakers was about 0.1 watts. My solution was to re-refoam the bass cone surround, making sure I centred it properly this time. It has sounded fine ever since.

80 dbs does represent turning the volume up quite a bit to many people. It's loud enough to drown out normal speech. Loud enough to annoy the neighbours. Loud enough to get physical impact from the music. Loud enough to sound unrealistically loud for vocalists. But in terms of what the amp and speakers can take, it's well within their comfort levels - if they don't have a pre-existing manufacturing fault.

English doesn't seem to be MaxD's native language. When I read about his 82db measurements, followed by confirmation that that was as loud as he listened to his 2020i's I tokk the following statement from his opening post to be a figure of speech:

It is like three weeks they now work with a lot of fun and satisfaction from my side on my system, I can crank my NAD D 3020 volume up to 100 x 100 and they still sound great with pretty much no distortion and especially they do not fail.

(my bold).

I took his statement of 100 x 100 volume to mean peaks of 82 dbs (+/- accuaracy of his phone app). And not to mean he turned his volume until it hit its endstop. Think about it. If he were doing this with his BX2 speakers it would sound horrible, with a lot of clipping, instead of sounding "great with pretty much no distortion".

When you look at speaker drivers it's amazing they can take as much power as they do because the voice coil wires are so thin, you'd think they'd burn out like a filament lightbulb. Most likely explanation for the failure of MaxD's 2nd set of 2020i's is that 1 watt to 10 watts was sufficient to burn the voicecoil wires out.

Who is prepared to take me on for a bet? I will buy a new pair of 2020i's. We will feed it with 1 watt then 10 watts then 50 then 75 watts continuosly over a period of a few days - with my 300 watt amplifier. If the speaker fails you pay me £200. If it doesn't I give you the 2020i's plus £50.

As you can read in his last reply, he turned the volume up to -5 dB while the scale goes from -100 dB to 0 dB. That says it all.

 

[Covenanter]

TANSTAAFL!

Chris

Sounds to me like his Teela Brown gene may be missing......

Indeed.

Chris

 

[hifikrazy]

Not knowing what or who Teela Brown is, googling it produced some rather interesting images, I have to say :O

 

[Covenanter]

Three points:

To be fair to WHiFi their star system relates to a price point so the 5 stars for the Q Acoustic speakers relates to £150 speakers. The MA BX2s, which also get 5 stars, are £250 so you would expect them to be materially better. I've not auditioned speakers that cost around £150 so I cannot comment from experience but afaik the Q Acoustics could easily be the best at that price.

I would never run any system with the wick turned up to near maximum. You will be putting a strain on system components. I'm not actually surprised that relatively cheap speakers would fail if driven like this.

I would question pairing £150 speakers with a £400 amp. I know it is fashionable to spend more on electronics nowadays and I know I'm an old fogey for spending more on speakers but surely this amp deserves rather better speakers. Shouldn't the OP really be looking at £400-£500 speakers?

Chris

 

[Covenanter]

Not knowing what or who Teela Brown is, googling it produced some rather interesting images, I have to say :O

The Ringworld books are classics, well certainly the first two are, ie Ringworld and Ringworld Engineers. If you like sf they should be read!

Chris

 

[LV-426]

Have owned 2020i's for over a year with no issues and on occasion drive them to high levels using what is an under powered amp!!

As for fit and finish/ general quality these are budget speakers that compare well with others in this category.

 

[hifikrazy]

Not knowing what or who Teela Brown is, googling it produced some rather interesting images, I have to say :O

The Ringworld books are classics, well certainly the first two are, ie Ringworld and Ringworld Engineers. If you like sf they should be read!

Chris

Thanks for the info. I've not read them but the Dune books I have. When I was younger, I was more into the fantasy books like the Shannara series.

 

[MaxD]

Three points:

To be fair to WHiFi their star system relates to a price point so the 5 stars for the Q Acoustic speakers relates to £150 speakers. The MA BX2s, which also get 5 stars, are £250 so you would expect them to be materially better. I've not auditioned speakers that cost around £150 so I cannot comment from experience but afaik the Q Acoustics could easily be the best at that price.

I would never run any system with the wick turned up to near maximum. You will be putting a strain on system components. I'm not actually surprised that relatively cheap speakers would fail if driven like this.

I would question pairing £150 speakers with a £400 amp. I know it is fashionable to spend more on electronics nowadays and I know I'm an old fogey for spending more on speakers but surely this amp deserves rather better speakers. Shouldn't the OP really be looking at £400-£500 speakers?

Chris

Yep i think you are right.BX2 as I previously said are another class of speakers based on the build material. Also true the fact that pairing a valuable amp with budget, better say too cbeap made hardware is not good idea. Sadly on he review I based my purchase I didn't read about midrange speakers toy and generally speaking poor build quality.

This is a lesson I learned: no more hi-fi blind purchase.

 

[davedotco]

Not knowing what or who Teela Brown is, googling it produced some rather interesting images, I have to say :O

The real Teela Brown is a character in Ringworld. She has been bread for luck and is the product of multiple (birthright) lottery wins and probably the luckiest human ever.

With neither ability or particular skills she manages to get herself transported to the Ringworld where she finds "tree of life" a plant and food that gives her near immortality.

She is also on the Ringworld, the only place in known space that might survive the radiation blast from the exploding galactic core.

This has already happened but the radiation, moving (of course) at light speed will not reach known space (around earth) for 20,000 years.

Perhaps more to the point, her hi-fi system never breaks down.......!

 

[lindsayt]

Who is prepared to take me on for a bet? I will buy a new pair of 2020i's. We will feed it with 1 watt then 10 watts then 50 then 75 watts continuosly over a period of a few days - with my 300 watt amplifier. If the speaker fails you pay me £200. If it doesn't I give you the 2020i's plus £50.

Your 300 watt amp won't be clipping so it's much less likely to damage speakers than a 30 watt amp that is clipping.

Does that mean you're willing to take on my sporting bet?

We can make the 1 watt, 10 watt, 50 watt, 75 watt signals music played from some CD's where it's peaking at 1 watt, 10, 50 watts, 75 watts.That is what I call a real world test. Thinking about it, I might not run the test continuously because I'd like to get some sleep at night and they'd be making too much of a racket at 10 watts for me to do that - even if I shoved them in a cupboard in the basement.

If you're confident you're right, you stand to win £50 and a pair of nearly new, run-in, near mint condition 2020i's.

I suspect that the Q Acoustics 75 watt power handling specification may be over-optimistic. I suspect 10 watts may be enough to blow them.

 

[Cypher]

Sadly on he review I based my purchase I didn't read about midrange speakers toy and generally speaking poor build quality.

Several people here have mentioned by now that you damaged the speakers yourself and still it's the speakers fault ? :?

 

[BigH]

He does have a point about the WHF ratings, there are more 5 stars awarded to speakers than anything else. There are no 1 stars, only 10 get 2 stars, 45 3 stars, 153 4 stars and 160 5 stars. And yes they do often test cheap speakers with expensive amps. I believe.

 

[BigH]

I suspect that the Q Acoustics 75 watt power handling specification may be over-optimistic. I suspect 10 watts may be enough to blow them.

Does that not depend on the distortion. 10w to 75w is not that much anyway, not even 2x as loud.

 

[Vladimir]

The NAD D 3020 is a 2x30W amplifier with no RMS rating for 4 ohms. Ignore dynamic power, music power, IHF, DIN, etc. RMS at 20Hz-20kHz under 0.1% THD is what counts, everything else is to fool the Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus fans.

http://nadelectronics.com/products/digital-music/D-3020-Hybrid-Digital-Amplifier

The Q Acoustics 2020i's have recommended amplification of 25-75W RMS and dip down to 4 ohms. They are specified as 88dB but I bet if we apply efficiency as 2.63V at 1m, they don't do better than 85dB.

http://www.qacoustics.co.uk/2020i-stereo-speaker.htm

Is 82dB loud? Yes, in a retirement home or a library. I suspect the OP, like me, listens more close to 90-100dB normaly and gets easily desensitized after 10 min of loud listening at 85dB and just pushes the loudness further.

To get the 2020i at 96dB 10ft away they need at 2x30W RMS in 8 ohms and 2x60W RMS in 4ohms. The manufacturer predicted this by recommending power with additional headroom of 15W RMS per channel for possible nasty phase shifts in transient peaks.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

The NAD is obviosly underpowered for this application. When pushed to its limits it had no control over the woofers and they were hitting the stoppers (the crackling sound) and eventually ended being destroyed. Clipping and THD coming out from the amp are irrelevant here. The amp is specified to handle 5V input so that also isn't an issue.

I fear the OP is suffering from downgraditis. Coming from his excellent B&W DM6 + McIntosh 2105 to the Q Acoustics 2020i + NAD D3020 is a significan't plumet in performance and he may have lost perspective what lowest entry level budget gear can really do.

 

[Jota180]

Their gear is cheap and everyone in the chain is making a nice profit. This can only mean components are from the bargain basement bin.

But this is exactly the same for any mainstream audio product....... :read:

I am not sure what your point is?

Bargain basement stuff is generally not manufactured to the standards of higher priced components.

Go up in the price range on most products and the warranty gets longer, that tells it's own story.

 

[Vladimir]

Wilson Alexandria XLF - £120,000 - 5 year warranty

Tannoy DC10T - £5250 - 5 year warranty

Q Acoustics - £150 - 5 year warranty

 

[chebby]

Is 82dB loud? Yes, in a retirement home or a library. I suspect the OP, like me, listens more close to 90-100dB normaly ...

Peak or continuous?

Measured at 1 metre, or measured from where you listen?

If the latter response to both questions ... why so loud?

 

[ISAC69]

5 years warranty is not a guaranty to good quality . it means nothing :wall:

 

[Vladimir]

Is 82dB loud? Yes, in a retirement home or a library. I suspect the OP, like me, listens more close to 90-100dB normaly ...

Peak or continuous?

Measured at 1 metre, or measured from where you listen?

At listening position in peaks.

85dB is like hearing traffic. http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

 

[MaxD]

I think I have to clarify I do have misured my 82 db (85 today in this moment with another, similar app, always loaded on iPad, the other still read 82db): one meter and the half, my MA BX2 act pretty much like desktop speakers, they are mounted near the wall and I'm sitting at my desk/console like 1 meter and a half from them. Same position for 2020i and for Pionner even if they are bigger.

Just to replicate the condition of 2020i fault I measured both times using the last totally fine Chris Robinson & Brotherhood cd (Phosporescent Harvest): this is solid roots music as I said and during Wanderer's Lament (the song that killed 2020i) the pressure was pretty much constant at 82db.

No need to say BX2 handled this cd and the song with no problem at all, solid, clear sound, controlled, tight, visceral funky bass.

Now I don't know what to say: when we record in studio, it is common practise during mixing session to listen between 50 and 90 dbs on many different equipment and the top sound pressure is similar to the one I like to listen when I'm home.

 

[Vladimir]

So your theory is that the speakers fell apart at normal listening levels no louder than 85dB with the NAD turned 100%?

 

[Electro]

Wilson Alexandria XLF - £120,000 - 5 year warranty

Tannoy DC10T - £5250 - 5 year warranty

Q Acoustics - £150 - 5 year warranty

All PMC speakers - 20 year warranty

 

[BigH]

So whats all that about 100 x 100 and -3db then. sounds like the damage was already done.

 

[MaxD]

The NAD D 3020 is a 2x30W amplifier with no RMS rating for 4 ohms. Ignore dynamic power, music power, IHF, DIN, etc. RMS at 20Hz-20kHz under 0.1% THD is what counts, everything else is to fool the Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus fans.

The Q Acoustics 2020i's have recommended amplification of 25-75W RMS and dip down to 4 ohms. They are specified as 88dB but I bet if we apply efficiency as 2.63V at 1m, they don't do better than 85dB.

Is 82dB loud? Yes, in a retirement home or a library. I suspect the OP, like me, listens more close to 90-100dB normaly and gets easily desensitized after 10 min of loud listening at 85dB and just pushes the loudness further.

To get the 2020i at 96dB 10ft away they need at 2x30W RMS in 8 ohms and 2x60W RMS in 4ohms. The manufacturer predicted this by recommending power with additional headroom of 15W RMS per channel for possible nasty phase shifts in transient peaks.

The NAD is obviosly underpowered for this application. When pushed to its limits it had no control over the woofers and they were hitting the stoppers (the crackling sound) and eventually ended being destroyed. Clipping and THD coming out from the amp are irrelevant here. The amp is specified to handle 5V input so that also isn't an issue.

I fear the OP is suffering from downgraditis. Coming from his excellent B&W DM6 + McIntosh 2105 to the Q Acoustics 2020i + NAD D3020 is a significan't plumet in performance and he may have lost perspective what lowest entry level budget gear can really do.

First of all thank your for your interesting and competent analysis. I just want to add, my NAD D 3020 was tested, after the 2020i sad fault, in the official NAD lab on the desk at 42 + 42 watt on 8 Ohm and 67 + 67 on 4 Ohm with negligible distortion.

Related to the SPL: another app I downloaded and installed today say 85 db (one meter and a half, in the position I'm sitting listening).

I can assure the sound is definitely strong, it depends from the recording, then it totally satisfy my needs. I was surprised myself too, about the figure, I was wondering it was stronger, then that is. On slow musical moments it is not often under 70 db and the peak of the new app say 85 db (chris Robinson and the Brotherhood new cd, the one I was listen when 2020i woofers died).

About MacIntosh + DM6: they were in another room, actual living room and after all this years was a bit tired of them sound. I know Neil Young will kill me for this statement, then new music on old gears not always sound like old music on it. And I want something that can sound very well with both new and old recordings, or maybe it is just me tired of them after all this years. A young friend offered me a steal for them and so he got them

Actually in the living room there is a Cambridge Audio home theater system for TV and it can play honest background music. Then I want a proper hi-fi there, and ironically before the mess I was considering Q Acoustics 2050i. Now I think about Dali or Focal, as a amp I think about an Arcam or another NAD (like 356BE) or a Rotel RA-12. Focal are expensive, a friend got them, I listen them, very good speakers, too expensive. I think when I'm ready I will open a thread for suggestion even if the signature of you guys in this thread open an entire world in themself, so thank to all that shares them system and show a personality behind the comments.

 

[MaxD]

So whats all that about 100 x 100 and -3db then. sounds like the damage was already done.

That is the NAD figure: this amp doesn't have a proper old fashioned voleme knob. The volume knob is infinite in the sense that it wont stop, he goes around and around and the reference is the db meter on the body of the amplifier. If you look at the picture of the product, you can have the idea of what I mean.

So, with Q Acoustics 2020i to reach a level of satisfaction, I needed to reach, on that db meter scale, a figure between 10 and 0. The problem is that also that meter scale is not very accurate becouse it just had x20 db figures: so you can see -100 -80 -60 -40 -20 and 0. So you have to guess from the lights what can be the real volume and becouse my scale was always between 10 and 0 and le light was fading near, for the experience I made with this "modern" vumeter (if I can call it like this) the volume was around -5/3 db on the scale.

I didn't know about the SPL apps before the 2020i mess, I learn about it here, thankx to a poster.

100 x 100 it is becouse when you are at this 0 db totally lightned scale it means you are at the maximus volume amp can offer.

it is needed to say that I NEVER been at 100 per 100 even with the 2020i, it was maybe 95 per cent, I still don't know.

As I state on NAD repair center desk, my NAD D 3020 amp was rated for 42 + 42 watt on 8 Ohm and 67 + 67 watt max with negligible distortion at full volume. They explained to me, like I always said, that class D amps can play stronger compared with class A/B amps with less heat and distortion.