Hi-Fi bargains gallore lately!

[MeanandGreen]

Hi all,

I wanted a decent DAC for my iMac so I could connect it to my NAD C350. An amp which I recently fixed for just £12. The NAD and the computer are the basis for a second system in my office.

I have bought a used Pioneer PDR-609 to use as both a DAC and a player/recorder. These CDR machines can go for anything between £70 - £100+ in good condition. I took a chance on a faulty one for £30 including postage. It wasn't reading discs anymore, so I opened it up and found a foreign object covering the laser. I've removed the said item and voila! A fully operational CD Recorder/DAC for peanuts! It's in great cosmetic condition too

I'm rather chuffed, because I recently got hold of a Lenco L75 Turntable for free too.

If I include the cost of the JBL desktop speakers I bought for this system the whole package of Amp/CD/DAC/TT/speakers has weighed in at £112 in total.

I do still need to spend on getting the turntable up to scratch, but even so... This is very cheap Hi-Fi!

 

[Vladimir]

*smile*

 

[drummerman]

A bargain exceeding expectations can be more satisfying than something expensive which needs to live up to its price tag.

I once bought a Pioneer Kuro (TV) for £2.5K, believing all the hype and it was a piece of ... (rhymes with map).

Nice TT.

 

[tino]

Slight tangent to this thread, but surely there must be some bargains to be had in mainland Europe at the moment given the current exchange rates. I think something like a Devialet 120 works out around £500-600 cheaper, even before you haggle!?

 

[bluedroog]

Minidisk players can make very cost effective DACs for anyone on a tight budget.

 

[Gazzip]

Slight tangent to this thread, but surely there must be some bargains to be had in mainland Europe at the moment given the current exchange rates. I think something like a Devialet 120 works out around £500-600 cheaper, even before you haggle!?

You would think so but a lot of the well known higher end brands are tied to importers. Each country's importer has an informal agreement to only sell within their own country. They in turn each enforce that agreement on their own domestic retailers on pain of removing them from their supply list. Devialet is one such brand which is controlled in the UK by Absolute Sounds. You could try and buy a new 120 from France but 20 Euros and my left nut says that the retailer would not deal to you. The words racket and monopolies commission spring to mind.

Of course if you happen to be on good terms with a prominent Dutch Audio Research dealer then anything can happen..... *wink*

 

[tino]

Slight tangent to this thread, but surely there must be some bargains to be had in mainland Europe at the moment given the current exchange rates. I think something like a Devialet 120 works out around £500-600 cheaper, even before you haggle!?

You would think so but a lot of the well known higher end brands are tied to importers. Each country's importer has an informal agreement to only sell within their own country. They in turn each enforce that agreement on their own domestic retailers on pain of removing them from their supply list. Devialet is one such brand which is controlled in the UK by Absolute Sounds. You could try and buy a new 120 from France but 20 Euros and my left nut says that the retailer would not deal to you. The words racket and monopolies commission spring to mind.

Of course if you happen to be on good terms with a prominent Dutch Audio Research dealer then anything can happen..... *wink*

Interesting ... not sure they can refuse if you turn up on their doorstep, plus I think the EU Commission would take a dim view of such behaviour as they did when certain car companies tried to prevent exports between member states.

 

[Gazzip]

They can't refuse if you turn up on their doorstep, and I think the EU Comission would take a dim view of such behaviour as they did when certain car companies tried to prevent exports between member states.

I suspect if you actually turned up in a store then you might be right, but make sure you check in advance that they have the item in stock!

As you say not in the spirit of European free trade but you would have to prove what they were up to. I have spoken to several UK dealers who are royally fed up with the level of control exerted over them by various importers but their hands are tied.

 

[tino]

I suspect if you actually turned up in a store then you might be right, but make sure you check in advance that they have the item in stock!

*good*

 

[Gazzip]

The second hand market in Europe is a very good place to go fishing at the moment. Care is required however as it is very, very easy to get your trousers pulled down.

I purchased my Audio Research Ref5SE from a guy off a German Audio trading website. It arrived in pieces (literally there were caps sheared off) leaving me with a repair bill of £600. Luckily I paid with PayPal which I froze so the guy I was dealing with had no option but to cover the cost of those repairs. Imagine my surprise when the engineer repairing the caps that had sheared in transit called me to tell me that the power supply valve had historically flashed over so it couldn't have been working at all before it was posted to me. An extra £200 on the bill, once again covered by the vendor because I had his money held in PayPal.

All said and done however I did pick up a 2013 Ref5se for £4200 so I was well chuffed when the dust had settled.

 

[Gazzip]

The Ref 9 CD player was from a Dutch dealer, brand new, for 2/3 retail in the UK so well worth trying the European route if you can do a seruptitious deal.....

 

[tino]

Thanks gazzip for the interesting information ... I think anyone contemplating a large new purchase would do well to look at what the equivalent item costs in Ireland, France, Belgium, Holland etc.

 

[Gazzip]

Another thing to consider when buying from overseas is the potential for re-sale when you want to move it on. A lot of UK buyers will not buy second hand kit that has come from elsewhere in Europe. This is in no small part down to horror stories (as mine above) and a genuine concern that what they are buying may have been through the proverbial mill. This lack of sale-ability extends itself to many dealers who will not accept such kit in part-exchange.

Just some thing to be aware of if you are a use it and move it kind of guy/gal.

Also repairing such kit can leave you much further out of pocket than you would be if your kit was British. Remember what I said earlier about importers and their captive markets? Guess who generally has import rights on specialist, product specific spares? Yep, the same importer. A couple of times I have been exposed to the "naughty tax" when getting exotic import kit repaired.

 

[bigboss]

I once bought a Pioneer Kuro (TV) for £2.5K, believing all the hype and it was a piece of ... (rhymes with map).

Why?

 

[Infiniteloop]

Slight tangent to this thread, but surely there must be some bargains to be had in mainland Europe at the moment given the current exchange rates. I think something like a Devialet 120 works out around £500-600 cheaper, even before you haggle!?

Yep. I got £500 off my Devialet 200 due to currency exchanges. My dealer said that he'd reasoned with Devialet to pass on the savings and they agreed.

 

[Frank Harvey]

You would think so but a lot of the well known higher end brands are tied to importers. Each country's importer has an informal agreement to only sell within their own country.

It's not so much of a formal agreement, more of a legally binding contract.

They in turn each enforce that agreement on their own domestic retailers on pain of removing them from their supply list. Devialet is one such brand which is controlled in the UK by Absolute Sounds. You could try and buy a new 120 from France but 20 Euros and my left nut says that the retailer would not deal to you.

Regional distributors are set up specific regions to service that region. That includes appointing authorised retailers, supplying those retailers, holding plentiful stock of all products, sales back up to those retailers, providing spares and servicing of in and out of warranty product, supplying stock to regional reviewers/mags, representing the brand at exhibitions and shows, providing dealer training as well as training for their own staff, as well as numerous other aspects that I (and you) probably don't even know about.

That's a big commitment to a brand, and to provide the service they do costs money. How much money will depend on many things, including the area they're appointed to cover. Those covering a larger area will see more local sales, so they can provide these services cheaper. Distributors for smaller areas will see less sales, so their services will cost more due to numerous reasons. If you're recommending that hi-fi users in the UK start buying from overseas, then the various services provided by home grown distributors and retailers could be out in jeopardy. I know some on these forums don't give a **** about small details like that, but the majority like to use these services. Dealing with overseas distributors/retailers for servicing isn't all leaches and cream. What if you bought a 50kg subwoofer that went faulty, and you had to return it to somewhere in Europe to have it serviced out of warranty? Or even under warranty, because they're certainly not going to collect from you for the duration of the guarantee period! And if there's actually no fault (quite common), they're not going to send it back to you as well free of charge - they will charge you for shipping and time wasted!

I don't own a business, so your dubious comments aren't affecting me directly, but if I did own a business, I would probably be laying into you fairly heavily right now for suggesting in other posts in this thread that potential customer buy overseas (even if it is against contracts that have been put in place. Add to this you would be/are messing with the futures of UK based business owners. The current state of retail in general in the UK is bad enough without crusaders like you making it worse.

The words racket and monopolies commission spring to mind.

Really, come on. Quit the stirring.

 

[Gazzip]

I don't own a business, so your dubious comments aren't affecting me directly, but if I did own a business, I would probably be laying into you fairly heavily right now for suggesting in other posts in this thread that potential customer buy overseas (even if it is against contracts that have been put in place. Add to this you would be/are messing with the futures of UK based business owners. The current state of retail in general in the UK is bad enough without crusaders like you making it worse.

The words racket and monopolies commission spring to mind.

Really, come on. Quit the stirring.

We live in a free European market David and UK retailers are supposed to compete within that market. It is a two way street and UK retailers should be free to sell in to that. It is illegal to restrict that trade so I don't really understand your point.

Am I to assume that you expect the British punter to spend more on buying from a British dealer simply because they are British? If yes you are a couple of decades behind the times. The world simply isn't like that anymore.

 

[bigfish786]

When buying my Marantz Turntable. I used a dealer in the Netherlands. Which worked out great.

If you are buying new, it is well worth the effort.

 

[Frank Harvey]

We live in a free European market David and UK retailers are supposed to compete within that market. It is a two way street and UK retailers should be free to sell in to that. It is illegal to restrict that trade so I don't really understand your point.

I don't know how it is for all trades, but the hi-fi trade has its own suppliers for specific regions. All dealers and distributors sign contracts governing where they can sell. Of course, they can sell outside their region, but then risk losing their dealership for that brand.

Am I to assume that you expect the British punter to spend more on buying from a British dealer simply because they are British? If yes you are a couple of decades behind the times. The world simply isn't like that anymore.

Tricky one. I appreciate that many people like a deal, and will shop around, that's human nature. Ordering from overseas, there's cons that can accommodate the pros. I refer back to what I've already said about official UK distributors and retailers.

Theres the moral issue of buying from within the UK to improve our own country rather than everyone else's. This is one reason why we are way behind other countries.

 

[strms]

This is one of those topics that really frustrates me. Yes I agree with David about buying from dealers in the UK, we shouldn't be complacent as if we all did go overseas for our goods/services then the UK dealers will suffer and may dissapear. Isn't that what happened to the great British seaside holiday in the 70s, cheaper better weather etc. as a country we seem to outprice ourselves. An example of this is that of Centre Parcs, it is far cheaper to fly to Germany or Holland to go to get the 'CP experience' than it is to stay in a UK one.

I am interested in buying a pair of Kef R700 speakers. Owned by the GP Group with speakers made in China. Now, these speakers can be bought for half the price that they are here, in a nearby,very flat european country.

As a consumer would it be wrong for me to buy elsewhere or should I pay double here.........should I go to Ibiza or Torbay for a week this summer.

 

[Gazzip]

We live in a free European market David and UK retailers are supposed to compete within that market. It is a two way street and UK retailers should be free to sell in to that. It is illegal to restrict that trade so I don't really understand your point.

I don't know how it is for all trades, but the hi-fi trade has its own suppliers for specific regions. All dealers and distributors sign contracts governing where they can sell. Of course, they can sell outside their region, but then risk losing their dealership for that brand.

Am I to assume that you expect the British punter to spend more on buying from a British dealer simply because they are British? If yes you are a couple of decades behind the times. The world simply isn't like that anymore.

Tricky one. I appreciate that many people like a deal, and will shop around, that's human nature. Ordering from overseas, there's cons that can accommodate the pros. I refer back to what I've already said about official UK distributors and retailers.

Theres the moral issue of buying from within the UK to improve our own country rather than everyone else's. This is one reason why we are way behind other countries.

Or perhaps one could look at it the other way round in as much as we are way behind other countries precisely because we haven't embraced free trade whereas the other member states have.

In my defence I did post several follow ups pointing out the potential pitfalls of buying from overseas. Potential damage in transit, limited support in the UK for goods purchased overseas, and the poor resale value of said items within the UK to name three. It is a risk and there should be no doubting that.

I wish no ill whatsoever on the British Hifi retail sector and I am sorry if the weak Euro is punishing you at the moment. It is however swings and roundabouts and it was only a year or so ago that there was near parity between the pound and the euro when the boot was firmly on the other foot.

 

[EvPa]

I wish no ill whatsoever on the British Hifi retail sector and I am sorry if the weak Euro is punishing you at the moment. It is however swings and roundabouts and it was only a year or so ago that there was near parity between the pound and the euro when the boot was firmly on the other foot.

The GBP hasn't fallen under EUR 1.15 for over two years now, the last time that they were near parity was in late 2008 and early 2009.

 

[Gazzip]

I wish no ill whatsoever on the British Hifi retail sector and I am sorry if the weak Euro is punishing you at the moment. It is however swings and roundabouts and it was only a year or so ago that there was near parity between the pound and the euro when the boot was firmly on the other foot.

The GBP hasn't fallen under EUR 1.15 for over two years now, the last time that they were near parity was in late 2008 and early 2009.

I don't really think your more accurate appraisal of the foreign exchange timeline really changes the point now does it, although thank you for pointing out my error. Where does the time go!?

So in the interest of defending the facts I shall amend my statement. It is only over the last six months that the Euro has bombed from 1.15 to 1.36 per GBP. That is 20% less worth against the pound than it was in Nov/Dec 2014. In mid 2012 it was 1.30 whereas by December 2012 it was back down to 1.15 again. I think that actually rather reinforces my point that the whole system ebbs and flows in and out of the UK's/Rest of Europe's favour.

Also note that 1.15 is a strong Euro (good for UK trade), as it has been save a few spikes (like today's spike) since just after the crash in 2007/08, so the UK has had it very good for 8 years in terms of selling in to the EU states! I remember it being up at 1:45-ish back in the pre-crash mid noughties, which was awful for the UK unless you were going on holiday.

We have to put up with a lot of nonsense from Brussells but one thing is indisputable and that is that free trade is good for the UK. So much of what we buy would be so much more expensive if we didn't have the current system in place. Once again I wish no ill on any business, least of all the one that services my passion/hobby. I run and own a business myself and we have to adapt and work within/use the system we have been given I'm afraid. C'est la vie!

 

[Frank Harvey]

I am interested in buying a pair of Kef R700 speakers. Owned by the GP Group with speakers made in China. Now, these speakers can be bought for half the price that they are here, in a nearby,very flat european country.

Don't forget that european websites usually show a price for single soeakers rather than a pair. There is no way any retailer could sell them half price - I'm not saying that KEF prices won't differ worldwide, but generally, KEF represent themselves globally.

 

[Glacialpath]

A bargain exceeding expectations can be more satisfying than something expensive which needs to live up to its price tag.

I once bought a Pioneer Kuro (TV) for £2.5K, believing all the hype and it was a piece of ... (rhymes with map).

Nice TT.

Which Kuro did you buy that was rubish? It was either duff or it wasn't set up properly.