Help with cables

[unknown]

exactly. you would be surprised what basic/budget kit can do when better cables than the free (rubbish) ones provided are replaced.

only once i replaced the cheap/free cables with some better quality ones did i actually get to "unlock" what my kit was capable of.........

(try replacing your powermax plus with some russ andrews powerkords - you'll never feel like changing your hardware again !)

That's right! I put a Russ power cable on my old Bush radio and it now sounds like the musicians are in the room with me!. Even my lodger remarked on how much better it is than his top of the range gear.

I must fit one to my teasmade to improve the taste of the tea.

so what components/system do you use ?

what is your advice regarding upgrading hifi systems ?

or do you only do sarcastic posts ?

 

[the record spot]

10 metre 2.5mm 322 strand copper cable from eBay for £5.79 with free P&P. You don't need anything else.

Digitalis Direct by any chance?

 

[hifikrazy]

If you read all the details in the links provided (Rather than picking points that suit a purpose) you will find the improvements relate to a combination of equipment and cables, (Not the cables on their own) hence the links have no relevance to this thread. (And the reason I stand by my earlier statements)

Hope this clears up the confusion

Bill

It appears that only you are confused.

At least I am able to pick statements that illustrate the point. You on the other hand are hallucinating words that aren't even there in the links in a sorry attempt to save face.

On account of you, I have clicked through all seven of the Transparent Audio links again and there is no mention of improvements relating to a combination of upgrades made to equipment and cables. But I will concede to you that cables don't sound like much without any other equipment... duh.

Only the Skywalker Sound testimonial was a more comprehensive upgrade involving more than cables, but even then they observed that "These products enhanced our Scoring Stage environment. During listening tests I was amazed at the drastic differences we uncovered when comparing MIT to other products."

In fact, quite a few of the testimonials refer to the improvements brought about by the cables themselves such as "the recabling of our entire reference sound system" did not read "the upgrade of our entire reference sound system including cables".

 

[andyjm]

If you read all the details in the links provided (Rather than picking points that suit a purpose) you will find the improvements relate to a combination of equipment and cables, (Not the cables on their own) hence the links have no relevance to this thread. (And the reason I stand by my earlier statements)

Hope this clears up the confusion

Bill

It appears that only you are confused.

At least I am able to pick statements that illustrate the point. You on the other hand are hallucinating words that aren't even there in the links in a sorry attempt to save face.

On account of you, I have clicked through all seven of the Transparent Audio links again and there is no mention of improvements relating to a combination of upgrades made to equipment and cables. But I will concede to you that cables don't sound like much without any other equipment... duh.

Only the Skywalker Sound testimonial was a more comprehensive upgrade involving more than cables, but even then they observed that "These products enhanced our Scoring Stage environment. During listening tests I was amazed at the drastic differences we uncovered when comparing MIT to other products."

In fact, quite a few of the testimonials refer to the improvements brought about by the cables themselves such as "the recabling of our entire reference sound system" did not read "the upgrade of our entire reference sound system including cables".

Without understanding the context, the quotes are of little value. Given that they have been selected by the manufacturer for their marketing website, it seems likely that there was some bias in their choice. Did 20 sound engineers say they heard no difference, but one guy say that he did? I don't know, and you don't either, so best to be cautious. As I have posted above, there are other claims on the websites that seem unreliable, so I wouldn't regard the comments as definitive proof.

 

[hifikrazy]

andyjm, I agree with you that neither of us knows the context. To be honest, I only trust my own ears and I know that I can clearly hear differences between cables and it seems that at least some audio professionals can to, and that's the only point that I'm trying to make because there were some here that made definitive statements that all audio professionals don't use hifi grade cables because they know better.

This would be a sad sad world if we need measurements to tell our ears what they are hearing, and our eyes what they are seeing. For God's sake, let's stop and smell the roses, rather than stop to measure the concentration of odor units with an olfactometer.

Let's not turn this pleasurable hobby of ours into a scientific experiment. Otherwise we are just going the way William Masters did as told in the TV series Masters of Sex.

 

[professorhat]

If you read all the details in the links provided (Rather than picking points that suit a purpose) you will find the improvements relate to a combination of equipment and cables, (Not the cables on their own) hence the links have no relevance to this thread. (And the reason I stand by my earlier statements)

Hope this clears up the confusion

Bill

Nope.

As hifikrazy has rightly pointed out, most of the testimonials I've read leave little to the imagination. I've even quoted you one directly which references the cable and the "dramatic overall improvement" in sound. For one last time, please provide your justifications (with evidence this time) to backup your statement - you're obviously finding things the rest of us aren't on these websites, so it would helpful if you could enlighten us with the URLs that link to this information.

I do note things have moved from the fact that your original statement that

Top professional film and music studios have equipment that makes even top end Hi Fi look and sound like a budget setup, and if these expensive cables gave a better sound quality they would use them, however they don’t because these s expensive exotic cables don’t make a difference so save your money and don’t be taken in by the hype.

to

you will find the improvements relate to a combination of equipment and cables, (Not the cables on their own)

which shows you now at least do admit that some top professional film and music studos do use "expensive exotic cables"?

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Another cable thread grinds on. DOH. These links are marketing and must be treated as such IMO.

 

[TrevC]

exactly. you would be surprised what basic/budget kit can do when better cables than the free (rubbish) ones provided are replaced.

only once i replaced the cheap/free cables with some better quality ones did i actually get to "unlock" what my kit was capable of.........

(try replacing your powermax plus with some russ andrews powerkords - you'll never feel like changing your hardware again !)

That's right! I put a Russ power cable on my old Bush radio and it now sounds like the musicians are in the room with me!. Even my lodger remarked on how much better it is than his top of the range gear.

I must fit one to my teasmade to improve the taste of the tea.

so what components/system do you use ?

what is your advice regarding upgrading hifi systems ?

or do you only do sarcastic posts ?

Sorry mate, I couldn't resist it. Mains leads don't affect sound quality I'm afraid.

I have a Sony 70W per channel amp, a Marantz vintage CD player and B&W speakers.

 

[professorhat]

Another cable thread grinds on. DOH. These links are marketing and must be treated as such IMO.

Absolutely - but they do refute a point that I've seen made again and again i.e. "only hifi nuts use expensive cables", "all the professionals scoff at those that use them" etc. etc. It seems this isn't the case and many established and, in my opinion, highly regarded individuals in the professional world do use "exotic" cables and do hear differences in sound.

What this means is up for debate and certainly doesn't prove anything. But it does mean that it's not just "nuts" that believe this, and I would certainly put more trust in the testimonials from the kinds of people quoted than I would Joe Bloggs on the What Hi-Fi forum who says it's all impossible, it's in my head and "just take my word for it". Especially when Joe Bloggs also has made statements that now seem to have been proven to be incorrect.

 

[professorhat]

Another cable thread grinds on. DOH. These links are marketing and must be treated as such IMO.

Absolutely - but they do refute a point that I've seen made again and again i.e. "only hifi nuts use expensive cables", "all the professionals scoff at those that use them" etc. etc. It seems this isn't the case and many established and, in my opinion, highly regarded individuals in the professional world do use "exotic" cables and do hear differences in sound.

What this means is up for debate and certainly doesn't prove anything. But it does mean that it's not just "nuts" that believe this, and, if I were to actually care that much about the matter, I would certainly put more trust in the testimonials from the kinds of people quoted than I would Joe Bloggs on the What Hi-Fi forum who says it's all impossible, it's in my head and "just take my word for it". Especially when Joe Bloggs also has made statements that now seem to have been proven to be incorrect.

 

[TrevC]

Another cable thread grinds on. DOH. These links are marketing and must be treated as such IMO.

Absolutely - but they do refute a point that I've seen made again and again i.e. "only hifi nuts use expensive cables", "all the professionals scoff at those that use them" etc. etc. It seems this isn't the case and many established and, in my opinion, highly regarded individuals in the professional world do use "exotic" cables and do hear differences in sound.

What this means is up for debate and certainly doesn't prove anything. But it does mean that it's not just "nuts" that believe this, and, if I were to actually care that much about the matter, I would certainly put more trust in the testimonials from the kinds of people quoted than I would Joe Bloggs on the What Hi-Fi forum who says it's all impossible, it's in my head and "just take my word for it". Especially when Joe Bloggs also has made statements that now seem to have been proven to be incorrect.

Who is this Joe Bloggs? I would like to meet him.

 

[nima]

y a w n

get a room.

 

[abacus]

Another cable thread grinds on. DOH. These links are marketing and must be treated as such IMO.

Absolutely - but they do refute a point that I've seen made again and again i.e. "only hifi nuts use expensive cables", "all the professionals scoff at those that use them" etc. etc. It seems this isn't the case and many established and, in my opinion, highly regarded individuals in the professional world do use "exotic" cables and do hear differences in sound.

What this means is up for debate and certainly doesn't prove anything. But it does mean that it's not just "nuts" that believe this, and, if I were to actually care that much about the matter, I would certainly put more trust in the testimonials from the kinds of people quoted than I would Joe Bloggs on the What Hi-Fi forum who says it's all impossible, it's in my head and "just take my word for it". Especially when Joe Bloggs also has made statements that now seem to have been proven to be incorrect.

A cable on its own will always cost more than buying in bulk, and when studios buy in bulk (Usually including additional equipment) they get huge discounts, thus depending on the deals they can get more expensive cables can work out cheaper than cheaper cables.

Therefore the point you make that studios buy expensive cables because they sound better are flawed. (Quality, Installation and longevity are the most important requirements)

As I said in one of my earlier posts, if you are not familiar with upgrades in fixed installation systems it is easy to get confused, and this is the reason I made my statements, which still stand firm.

Hope this helps to clear up the confusion.

Bill

 

[professorhat]

Nope, it really doesn't. And you're never going to clear up the confusion it would seem, so, as I suspected in the first place to be honest, it's pointless carrying on asking you to - I just needed to give you the time to prove me wrong and you haven't.

Essentially, the testimonials show that some professional studios do use more expensive cables, and do clearly state the sonic improvements these cables provide, in spite of the fact that originally you said they didn't. The fact that you're now using some weird twisted logic to try and say that the expensive cables are now actually the cheaper cables when studios buy them in bulk doesn't change the fact they use them because they believe they sound superior. Whether the expensive cables (which can actually be the cheaper cables) sound better, or whether the cheaper cables (which are actually sometimes the more expensive cables) sound better, the fact is one sounds different from the other, which negates your original point.

Hope this helps to clear up the confusion.

 

[professorhat]

Who is this Joe Bloggs? I would like to meet him.

Clicky

 

[hifikrazy]

A cable on its own will always cost more than buying in bulk, and when studios buy in bulk (Usually including additional equipment) they get huge discounts, thus depending on the deals they can get more expensive cables can work out cheaper than cheaper cables.

Therefore the point you make that studios buy expensive cables because they sound better are flawed. (Quality, Installation and longevity are the most important requirements)

As I said in one of my earlier posts, if you are not familiar with upgrades in fixed installation systems it is easy to get confused, and this is the reason I made my statements, which still stand firm.

Hope this helps to clear up the confusion.

Bill

Seriously? Do you even realise the crock that you're spewing? I think we have RichDavis the Second here. Yup I agree that buying 10 Ferraris would probably cost less per unit than buying just one. But what you're trying to say is that 10 Ferraris can work out cheaper than 10 Toyotas, and that the decision to choose Ferraris over Toyotas has nothing to do with them driving better.

Nobody is saying that sound quality is the only factor in professional installations, but what you're trying to say is that sound quality has no relevance in their purchase decision.

 

[TrevC]

A cable on its own will always cost more than buying in bulk, and when studios buy in bulk (Usually including additional equipment) they get huge discounts, thus depending on the deals they can get more expensive cables can work out cheaper than cheaper cables.

Therefore the point you make that studios buy expensive cables because they sound better are flawed. (Quality, Installation and longevity are the most important requirements)

As I said in one of my earlier posts, if you are not familiar with upgrades in fixed installation systems it is easy to get confused, and this is the reason I made my statements, which still stand firm.

Hope this helps to clear up the confusion.

Bill

Seriously? Do you even realise the crock that you're spewing? I think we have RichDavis the Second here. Yup I agree that buying 10 Ferraris would probably cost less per unit than buying just one. But what you're trying to say is that 10 Ferraris can work out cheaper than 10 Toyotas, and that the decision to choose Ferraris over Toyotas has nothing to do with them driving better.

Nobody is saying that sound quality is the only factor in professional installations, but what you're trying to say is that sound quality has no relevance in their purchase decision.

Crock spewing, whatever that is, appears to be your particular forte. I suggest you educate yourself about how electronics works and stop being quite so gullible.

 

[ISAC69]

Every time we have a discussion on cables things are getting out of control and becoming nasty :rofl:

 

[kmlav]

The problem with the cable debates is there are 2 fairly clear camps.

1. Those that dont have "premium" cables and dont believe that they make a difference

2. Those that do have "premium" cables and believe that they make a difference

Personally I think it takes some time to really get into a piece of hi fi / music, in many cases it can take me days if not weeks to really get into a new album / piece of kit. Its my view that unless someone either owns a product or has had it on a really decent home demo its not possible to evaluate it accurately. If you look hard enough there will be someone on the internet making a fairly compelling argument that the world is flat and personally I dont think that "someone said" is a compelling enough argument to prove of disprove a point.

Personally I think good cables help with the enjoyment of the art and I dont say this to try and gain some sort of moral high ground but to contribute my experiences to other like minded people so that I might help enrich others experiences

 

[BenLaw]

You missed (3) those that used to have premium cables and now realise there's no point. There's a sizeable number in that category.

 

[JZC]

Many subscribe to the view that any HiFi system is only as good as it's weakest link and that no improvement in one part will suffice whilst another part is not up to standard.

Whilst this may sound feasible I suspect the internal wiring of most equipment is just standard copper cable that costs, length for length, a tiny fraction of expensive cables. Indeed much of the signal path travels along etched copper printed circuit boards and soldered components not to mention the various internal and external plugs/sockets.

 

[hifikrazy]

Crock spewing, whatever that is, appears to be your particular forte. I suggest you educate yourself about how electronics works and stop being quite so gullible.

HaHa you're right, what the heck is crock spewing? I think it's a combination of "what a load of crock" and... never mind. Sorry English is not my first language but it does seem that my comprehension when reading testimonials is better than at least one person here.

So you need to know how Bluray works first in order to tell that the picture quality is better than DVD? I guess some people don't know how to use the five senses they're born with but need to read the spec sheets and lab reports before their eyes are told what to see. Rather nerdy. So I guess we also need to read biology books in order to realise that sex feels good.

Back to TVs... When selecting between a bunch of TVs that all have the same resolution , are you seriously going to tell me that test measurements are the only reliable way to select the TV with the best picture quality, and that the visual test conducted by our eyes is secondary? If that's the case, WHFSAV should only run lab tests on all the product reviews that they do - No need for viewing or listening tests.

Actually I couldn't care less what your opinion is about cables and accessories. If anything I should pity you for your inability to hear differences. What I don't understand is why you guys feel the need to jump in with sarcastic condescending remarks about people being gullible and only experiencing placebo effect when they share their experiences about how cables and accessories have brought improvements to their systems.

 

[cheeseboy]

What I don't understand is why you guys feel the need to jump in with sarcastic condescending remarks about people being gullible and only experiencing placebo effect when they share their experiences about how cables and accessories have brought improvements to their systems.

Actually I couldn't care less what your opinion is about cables and accessories. If anything I should pity you for your inability to hear differences

you still don't see the irony/hypocrisy of your posts do you? :rofl:

 

[Broner]

What I don't understand is why you guys feel the need to jump in with sarcastic condescending remarks about people being gullible and only experiencing placebo effect when they share their experiences about how cables and accessories have brought improvements to their systems.

Actually I couldn't care less what your opinion is about cables and accessories. If anything I should pity you for your inability to hear differences

you still don't see the irony/hypocrisy of your posts do you? :rofl:

>)

 

[Thompsonuxb]

lol...... I need more pop corn.

The cable skeptics are getting a pretty good kicking in here.

Good job Hifikrazy...... :cheers: