CD vs vinyl playback

[Amormusic]

For the time being, I will probably settle for the Achromat, KAB damper and a cartridge upgrade

These are some great mods on a Techie.

I've got a 1210GR, to which I've put a 5mm Achromat to very good effect, a KAB damper which just adds a little bit more of everything and is definitely worth doing, plus it's rocking a Hana ML cartridge, which is really good, imo. This all connects to a BigBottle 3 valve phono stage (which are very highly regarded but not well heard of) and Telefunken valves.

Your Techie will show your planned mods up very easily, so are great moves to improve it.

 

[Entrigo]

Agreed. I've lost count how many times this subject has come up over the years. This is only 2nd, the most subjective subject being cables.

Well pitting one against the other was never my intention - and I think I did say that a couple of times. My intent was to figure out if it was normal /accepted that to achieve similar end SQ one would have to spend considerably more in analogue vinyl reproduction equipment - hence the thread title clearly stating "playback" - or indeed if there was a trick I was missing...

But yes - at the same time, I was conscious and wary of the risk that the thread might be turned into A is better than B - no B is better than A.

 

[Entrigo]

O

I owned a Rega p8 with apheta 2 and aria phono stage which I sold as I found streaming to sound better to me. I've now bought a Teac vrds -701 cd transport connected to a Auralic Vega S1 dac streamer to my Hegel H390 and some CDs now sound better than hi Res streaming it has really made a impression I didn't think CDs could sound this good. Another downside to vinyl is getting good pressings unless you have a good collection already new vinyl is like russian roulette loads of crappy pressings.

Oh I am not in any way thinking about ditching vinyl. I love it - my ache was "how can I get it to sound as good as CD without spending £5k?" 😂 Especially as my CD player only cost me £400...

But I am happy to listen to ALL formats. I stream a lot for convenience, love the crisp detail of CDs and LOVE everything about vinyl. Well almost. I hate mounting and aligning carts etc haha

 

[Entrigo]

These are some great mods on a Techie.

I've got a 1210GR, to which I've put a 5mm Achromat to very good effect, a KAB damper which just adds a little bit more of everything and is definitely worth doing, plus it's rocking a Hana ML cartridge, which is really good, imo. This all connects to a BigBottle 3 valve phono stage (which are very highly regarded but not well heard of) and Telefunken valves.

Your Techie will show your planned mods up very easily, so are great moves to improve it

I have been thinking about the KAB for a while. But as a budget conscious person, I hate the idea of paying £170 for a bit of plastic, a small screwdriver and a bit of silicon. Yes you pay for the whole research etc but still it's a preposterous amount of money for something that will probably cost KAB £10 - at a stretch.

 

[Amormusic]

I have been thinking about the KAB for a while. But as a budget conscious person, I hate the idea of paying £170 for a bit of plastic, a small screwdriver and a bit of silicon. Yes you pay for the whole research etc but still it's a preposterous amount of money for something that will probably cost KAB £10 - at a stretch.

It's made of a solid press of metal with a cutout. But I get what you are saying.

It's a great upgrade. If your system can justify the cost, then worth it all day long, imo.

I don't know what the rest of your system is.

The cartridge will have the biggest effect of what you've suggested you are interested in.

Anyway, just my two pence.

 

[Entrigo]

It's made of a solid press of metal with a cutout. But I get what you are saying.

It's a great upgrade. If your system can justify the cost, then worth it all day long, imo.

I don't know what the rest of your system is.

The cartridge will have the biggest effect of what you've suggested you are interested in.

Anyway, just my two pence.

I think I will go for it eventually. Grates me a bit (I paid £150 for my AT-VM540ML cart, nearly new 😆) but everyone seems to agree it's a good addition..

And I think it will definitely be worth it in my set-up (which should be visible in my signature) though not high end.

I also read the damper could help with cueing - not enamoured of the cueing on the SL1500

 

[good_enough]

For those interested in understanding the real differences between analog and digital, and not the subjective anecdotes, Jim Lesurf's Information and Measurement is an excellent guide.!

Thanks for posting that fascinating. The idea that the amorphous constitution of vinyl is analogous to dither was a revelation. I was aware of the benefits of upsampling but other aspects of CD replay architecture also really interesting.

Occasionally roaming the deserts of the Internet one gets an education!

 

[Jasonovich]

Thanks for posting that fascinating. The idea that the amorphous constitution of vinyl is analogous to dither was a revelation. I was aware of the benefits of upsampling but other aspects of CD replay architecture also really interesting.

Occasionally roaming the deserts of the Internet one gets an education!

I started reading through it, I started to sleep wake up sleep wake up sleep wake, switch on switch off....010101010. 😂

 

[good_enough]

I started reading through it, I started to sleep wake up sleep wake up sleep wake, switch on switch off....010101010. 😂

Ah you had a DAC moment (dozy-awake conjunction).

 

[plastic penguin]

Well pitting one against the other was never my intention - and I think I did say that a couple of times. My intent was to figure out if it was normal /accepted that to achieve similar end SQ one would have to spend considerably more in analogue vinyl reproduction equipment - hence the thread title clearly stating "playback" - or indeed if there was a trick I was missing...

But yes - at the same time, I was conscious and wary of the risk that the thread might be turned into A is better than B - no B is better than A.

My personal view is, and I've mentioned this many times on here, all formats have their merits and therefore should be embraced as a different part of musical playback.

As with anything hi-fi, which format is preferred is incredibly subjective. Only you can decide which format is preferable to your ears and - no less - your system. Some systems are arguably better voiced to a certain format. This type of thread is a real can of worms. You need to open the can and see which way they wiggle. 😉

 

[Freddy58]

My personal view is, and I've mentioned this many times on here, all formats have their merits and therefore should be embraced as a different part of musical playback.

As with anything hi-fi, which format is preferred is incredibly subjective. Only you can decide which format is preferable to your ears and - no less - your system. Some systems are arguably better voiced to a certain format. This type of thread is a real can of worms. You need to open the can and see which way they wiggle. 😉

Good post. To me, there’s no right or wrong way to enjoy the music, as long as it is enjoyed. I think threads like this turn it into a contest, when really, there isn’t one, or shouldn’t be. I speak as one that listens to all formats, each of one has its merits. That said, there’s something wonderful about vinyl 🙂

 

[Entrigo]

Good post. To me, there’s no right or wrong way to enjoy the music, as long as it is enjoyed. I think threads like this turn it into a contest, when really, there isn’t one, or shouldn’t be. I speak as one that listens to all formats, each of one has its merits. That said, there’s something wonderful about vinyl 🙂

Agree and agree!

 

[plastic penguin]

Good post. To me, there’s no right or wrong way to enjoy the music, as long as it is enjoyed. I think threads like this turn it into a contest, when really, there isn’t one, or shouldn’t be. I speak as one that listens to all formats, each of one has its merits. That said, there’s something wonderful about vinyl 🙂

Absolutely.

No contest in my opinion, just a preferred choice(s). My choice of whether I listen to vinyl or CD or Freeview radio depends on my mood (and how lazy I feel after a days work).

 

[manicm]

OUCH. Our erstwhile Andrew Everard has his two cents....

New CD players

A recent encounter with a couple of new CD players had Andrew Everard engaging in a trip down memory lane. But first-world problems aside, he wasn’t too sure he liked what he saw Once, when all was in black and white – well almost! – it wasn’t unknown for me to have a dozen CD players piled up...

www.hifinews.com

 

[davidf]

I'll buy a CD quality download when I can't get the CD, or if it's ridiculously expensive on CD. Either way, it'll end up on an Innuos.

 

[manicm]

I'll buy a CD quality download when I can't get the CD, or if it's ridiculously expensive on CD. Either way, it'll end up on an Innuos.

A traditional NAS drive does not appeal to me anymore.

 

[Jasonovich]

OUCH. Our erstwhile Andrew Everard has his two cents....

New CD players

A recent encounter with a couple of new CD players had Andrew Everard engaging in a trip down memory lane. But first-world problems aside, he wasn’t too sure he liked what he saw Once, when all was in black and white – well almost! – it wasn’t unknown for me to have a dozen CD players piled up...

www.hifinews.com

CDs are really for people who prefer physical ownership.
It is an outdated digital format but for many people unable detect quality difference between SACDs, this is where they set up their tents and look no further.
That's fine but those of us looking beyond the parapet, the door is open to DSD. This isn't about higher resolution, it's about the process.
Bit stream sound sweeter and it's like my ears lying down on a silk pillowcase, just perfect 😊

 

[davidf]

A traditional NAS drive does not appeal to me anymore.

Nor me - while other products can draw from the Innuos via the network, I usually use it plugged directly into a DAC, controlling the Innuos directly with its own app.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

CDs are really for people who prefer physical ownership.
It is an outdated digital format but for many people unable detect quality difference between SACDs, this is where they set up their tents and look no further.
That's fine but those of us looking beyond the parapet, the door is open to DSD. This isn't about higher resolution, it's about the process.
Bit stream sound sweeter and it's like my ears lying down on a silk pillowcase, just perfect 😊

Nah, I cannot agree that it has anything to do with not being able to hear a difference between CD and SACD. I'd wager all of us would fail a blind test on that one. CD is totally adequate in terms of bit depth and sample rate for listening to music.

However I don't buy CDs anymore I prefer digital downloads. And I'd prefer 16 bit 48 kHz over 44.1 kHz if it's been recorded in a multiple of 48kHz sample rate - but how often do you see that?

 

[Jasonovich]

Nah, I cannot agree that it has anything to do with not being able to hear a difference between CD and SACD. I'd wager all of us would fail a blind test on that one. CD is totally adequate in terms of bit depth and sample rate for listening to music.

However I don't buy CDs anymore I prefer digital downloads. And I'd prefer 16 bit 48 kHz over 44.1 kHz if it's been recorded in a multiple of 48kHz sample rate - but how often do you see that?

That's absolutely fine, you've set up your tent, you've found your sweet spot.
Small as they are, people with high resolving systems will detect the differences.

Same here, I very occasionally purchase CDs. I prefer to download, usually DSD and PCM >96khz.

Not always format driven, I'm happy to download 44.1khz if that was the only option available. Unfortunately DSD has a limited catalogue.

 

[Jasonovich]

A traditional NAS drive does not appeal to me anymore.

I use my NAS and DAS servers for backup and safety. I do have my DAC streamer networked to the NAS via the pass through powerline mains ethernet adapter and wireless but rarely access my music from it, though the option is there.

My digital transport does all the leg work, I have SSD fitted internally and really painless and simple, no Network Not Found messages. Simple is always best 🙂

 

[record_spot]

Bit late to this party, but - so many variables to consider with this - two fundamentally different approaches with both capable of superb sound quality.

The closest I've heard a CD player getting to something you could say was vinyl-ish was surprisingly quite recently when I acquired the Pioneer PD-S505SP. This is a slightly modded version of the PD-S505 player that Pioneer put out getting towards the mid-90s. Tom Evans was brought onboard and made some tweaks to the internals:-

- Upgraded Stable Platter Mechanism to better isolate the disc
- Custom designed high-accuracy master reference clock, with its own power supply (I'm assuming this is Trichord clock upgrade?)
- Avoided tone colouration in this model to colour the playback sound
- Power supply & "clock" PCBs are military grade (meaningless in a wider context - I understand what they're saying here, but the point remains)
- Output stage has custom designed precision audio ICs, individually tested and running in Class A

It has a pretty rare sound in CD players - on first instance, you might think it's too laid back, but that lack of "in your face" only serves to, after a few listens, appreciate the space it gives the music you play. True, it'll only play what it's given and if you're feeding it compressed, brickwalled and overly limited productions, then that's all you'll hear.

The sound is pretty analogue which is no mean feat but IMO really just highlights how good some of those 1990s players were. And a few 1980s ones too come to think of it. It's probably the nearest I've seen to the best of both worlds to date, and I've been through a stack of players in the last near 20 years. Best of all. you should be able to get one for about £100 or so and in good condition (the model I have is pretty much mint).

 

[matthewpianist]

The most organic sounding CD players I've come across are the Regas, the Consonance CD120 Linear, and some NAD models.

Generally speaking, I'm quite format agnostic. For classical music, vinyl is my last option, as the lower noise floor and ability to listen through a whole work without the interruption of changing sides makes a big difference.

 

[spl84]

Well... For MY ears it's vinyl all day. Of course some records dissapoint me but I've never listened to a CD and been floored by it. Maybe it's possible but I have yet to experience it. I have some CDs that sound great. I just got a few of the 24k "gold" CDs and some of them sound very nice. I love my CDs. I have hundreds of them and listened to them my entire life. I've listened to CDs on any and all systems in between, including my current vinyl rig. Forget about resolution, frequency response or any other measuring stick one might use because it's irrelevant. We're talking about music here after all. To MY ears Vinyl, for whatever reason sounds more REAL, and/or organic sounding. When a record is mastered correctly and pressed correctly it sounds like I'm at a private concert in my living room. The music is alive! Most of the music I listen to was recorded in the Analogue era. Therefore its on tape. IF we were to discuss digital RECORDINGS that could be a whole different discussion and one I could not even really discuss accurately...

 

[Jasonovich]

Well... For MY ears it's vinyl all day. Of course some records dissapoint me but I've never listened to a CD and been floored by it. Maybe it's possible but I have yet to experience it. I have some CDs that sound great. I just got a few of the 24k "gold" CDs and some of them sound very nice. I love my CDs. I have hundreds of them and listened to them my entire life. I've listened to CDs on any and all systems in between, including my current vinyl rig. Forget about resolution, frequency response or any other measuring stick one might use because it's irrelevant. We're talking about music here after all. To MY ears Vinyl, for whatever reason sounds more REAL, and/or organic sounding. When a record is mastered correctly and pressed correctly it sounds like I'm at a private concert in my living room. The music is alive! Most of the music I listen to was recorded in the Analogue era. Therefore its on tape. IF we were to discuss digital RECORDINGS that could be a whole different discussion and one I could not even really discuss accurately...

I share your sentiment, it's all about the process.
In my youth I was very much into analogue. I had a great turntable, Musical Fidelity speakers feeding off, two Edison mono block tube amps.
Truly a holographic experience.

I left all that behind, you know marriage, daughter on the way, divorced, married again. Life's a rollercoaster as you know!

Today, I have my CD/SACD collections and listen to them when I feel the need to have something physical in my hand.
These days, I'm downloading my music, mostly DSD and on occasions I may listen to streaming.

If I told you, I'm getting much better listening experience from DSD, not so much it's High Res but I believe it comes down to the bit stream processing, truly is beyond the threshold of CDs in terms of extracting the essence of the music.

To sum up, Hifi has many facets, essentially it's not about completing technologies but whatever pulls your string.
Enjoy and let's all avoid this meaningless tribalism. 🙂