Help with cables

[MUSICRAFT]

Rick I am interested in JL Audio Subs - what is your email address please?

Hi ellisdj

Did you go to the Bristol Show?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[ellisdj]

Hi Rick

I was planning to - bought a ticket weeks upfront - however I decided to spend the money on 3 of these and one of these.

By Thiis I mean money I would have spent going to the show

I wanted to hear the Fathoms - that was one of my main interests for going. Nevermind I can guess what it will be like.

I will email you at some point soon with a few enquiries - thanks

 

[steve_1979]

You can't go wrong with Van Damme. If it's good enough for the rich pro-audio music studios then it's good enough for anyone.

 

[hifikrazy]

:wall:

I know, truth hurts doesn't it

So says the self proclaimed messiah spewing his "truths"

 

[hifikrazy]

Yes! We have the trifecta of abacus, cheeseboy and andyjm in a cable thread once again! :dance:

yet you seem to follow and beride us for doing the exact same thing you are doing. Funny that isn't it? Anything to add on why professional studios and those actually making the music don't see fit to use all the hifi audio cables that people are convinced are needed for things to sound better, or are you just going to spend your time being a hypocrite?

For every professional studio that do not use hifi audio cables, there are others that see fit to do.

http://www.transparentcable.com/news/professionals.php?modCAT=4

http://www.mitcables.com/articles/mit-at-the-movies.html

As bigfish786 fairly stated in the psycho-acoustic thread, the world is not black and white.

 

[abacus]

Yes! We have the trifecta of abacus, cheeseboy and andyjm in a cable thread once again! :dance:

yet you seem to follow and beride us for doing the exact same thing you are doing. Funny that isn't it? Anything to add on why professional studios and those actually making the music don't see fit to use all the hifi audio cables that people are convinced are needed for things to sound better, or are you just going to spend your time being a hypocrite?

For every professional studio that do not use hifi audio cables, there are others that see fit to do.

http://www.transparentcable.com/news/professionals.php?modCAT=4

http://www.mitcables.com/articles/mit-at-the-movies.html

As bigfish786 fairly stated in the psycho-acoustic thread, the world is not black and white.

Link 1 relates to the quality of the cable and its longevity, it has nothing to do with sounding better than other cables.

Link 2 relates to finding a suitable cable system for a cinema/hall that is easily installable and best fit for purpose.

As you have probably not worked with cabling and fixed installations I can see why you would relate the links to the cables make difference debate, however they are 2 different things.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[hifikrazy]

For every professional studio that do not use hifi audio cables, there are others that see fit to do.

http://www.transparentcable.com/news/professionals.php?modCAT=4

http://www.mitcables.com/articles/mit-at-the-movies.html

As bigfish786 fairly stated in the psycho-acoustic thread, the world is not black and white.

Link 1 relates to the quality of the cable and its longevity, it has nothing to do with sounding better than other cables.

Link 2 relates to finding a suitable cable system for a cinema/hall that is easily installable and best fit for purpose.

As you have probably not worked with cabling and fixed installations I can see why you would relate the links to the cables make difference debate, however they are 2 different things.

Hope this helps

Bill

It is obvious you did not click on any of the links from the above two links that I posted because if you did, you will see that they clearly talk about the improvement in sound that the cables brought to their various setups.

While I have not worked with cabling and fixed installations professionally, I do know how to read english and I don't think there can be any misinterpretation with what those people are saying if you take the time to click through the links.

 

[abacus]

For every professional studio that do not use hifi audio cables, there are others that see fit to do.

http://www.transparentcable.com/news/professionals.php?modCAT=4

http://www.mitcables.com/articles/mit-at-the-movies.html

As bigfish786 fairly stated in the psycho-acoustic thread, the world is not black and white.

Link 1 relates to the quality of the cable and its longevity, it has nothing to do with sounding better than other cables.

Link 2 relates to finding a suitable cable system for a cinema/hall that is easily installable and best fit for purpose.

As you have probably not worked with cabling and fixed installations I can see why you would relate the links to the cables make difference debate, however they are 2 different things.

Hope this helps

Bill

It is obvious you did not click on any of the links from the above two links that I posted because if you did, you will see that they clearly talk about the improvement in sound that the cables brought to their various setups.

While I have not worked with cabling and fixed installations professionally, I do know how to read english and I don't think there can be any misinterpretation with what those people are saying if you take the time to click through the links.

I did click through to the links and my statements stand.

Bill

 

[BenLaw]

In the first link Roy Halee says: '“How do you all do it? I'm amazed at how good these new cables sound. I thought my previous cables were great but these are over the top. Low level detail, dynamics, and effortless reproduction are just fabulous. I hate to say it but my other cables almost sounded a little compressed by comparison, the sound just seems to open up more. . . . I could swear I hear more extension in the top as well as the bottom.”

So it does have something to do with sounding better than other cables.

 

[Native_bon]

Cable debates have been going for years now. If cables conrtibuted some much to the quality of music systems I think we would have had a result of what is what by now?... My reasoning being if most people are finding it hard to hear any difference, then there cnt be much significance to sound quality.. Also cables react differently in different systems.

IMHO.. I dnt think most cables make any difference... Very few & inbetween

 

[professorhat]

I did click through to the links and my statements stand.

Bill

You may have clicked on the links, but you then presumably closed the window prior to reading any of the testimonies from the audio professionals who use the cables? BenLaw has kindly quoted one for you above to save you a few milliseconds of further clicking.

If I'm wrong and you did read these testimonies, could you justify how "I hate to say it but my other cables almost sounded a little compressed by comparison, the sound just seems to open up more. . . . I could swear I hear more extension in the top as well as the bottom" and "The recabling of our entire reference sound system in Vienna 4 years ago — with Transparent Ref XL — resulted in the most dramatic overall improvement in every sonic parameter that I have ever experienced in over 28 years of daily intense work with this equipment" is a comment on the quality and longevity of the cable as opposed to the improved sonic benefits?

 

[bigfish786]

my personal opinion regarding interconnects and speaker cables is that they can and do make a difference.

but, i think it depends on your set-up, and whether it is set up to its absolute optimum, with you hearing the peak of its performance.

if you have all the right gear, but it is poorly set-up. for example, speakers in a poor position, or room acoustics effecting the sound, or even vibration effecting the electronics, i don't believe you would hear a difference or detect any potential improvements then.

 

[hifikrazy]

I did click through to the links and my statements stand.

Bill

I guess some people just refuse to see (or hear) what is directly in front of them.

Other than the first testimonial from Roy Halee hat BenLaw already quoted, some others said:

Bob Ludwig "The difference the cables made was amazing. Obviously cables can’t make the source signal better, but they almost always make it worse! Cables are a source of noise and other very audible distortions. They can limit resolution, dynamic range and distort the tonal balance. Transparent Audio makes fantastic cables because they understand how to eliminate the noise problems and create a neutral cable.”

Peter Poltun "The recabling of our entire reference sound system in Vienna 4 years ago — with Transparent Ref XL — resulted in the most dramatic overall improvement in every sonic parameter that I have ever experienced in over 28 years of daily intense work with this equipment. It was as though we were hearing the many treasures of our world famous recorded history — made in the very sites where Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler, Strauss and other giants actually worked with our predecessors — musically accurate for the very first time"

Aaron Reiff (from the Skywalker Sound testimonial): During listening tests I was amazed at the drastic differences we uncovered when comparing MIT to other products. So much so, that I went on a mission to learn what made MIT cable sound better in almost every application."

And finally, I think you could learn a thing or two from Jerry Steckling of Skywalker Sound) when you naysayers demand for scientific measurements to support what we hear: "My entire employed life and background has been in professional audio. Over the years, in protracted conversations, with my colleagues, we have talked about the limitations of test methods. We have had to admit how little these test results had to do with what we heard from systems, speakers and acoustic events. We have always had to put the gear away after some point and use our ears to tame the last bits. A system designer’s final test tool is still his ears."

But I guess you can always fall back on the ever convenient placebo effect theory. You can wrongly accuse us common folk or our wives/girlfriends/dogs from being influenced by the placebo effect, but when credible audio and music professionals whose whole life and career revolves around sound hear the difference that cables make, then what more do you want to question? Actually, don't bother with your retort because I can already foresee it so I may as well help you say it - "Because the placebo effect does not discriminate between common folk and audio professionals" or "These professionals must have been paid by Transparent Cables and MIT to give those testimonials".

 

[hifikrazy]

Here's my dog applying the sniff test to select her power cord group test winner. An hour later after I completed my listening tests, I succumbed to the placebo effect created by my doggy's nose and also chose the Kimber Powerkord 10 Gold as being the best sounding of the three.

http://i56.servimg.com/u/f56/18/43/06/17/img-2028.jpg

 

[Tarxman]

Here's my dog applying the sniff test to select her power cord group test winner. An hour later after I completed my listening tests, I succumbed to the placebo effect created by my doggy's nose and also chose the Kimber Powerkord 10 Gold as being the best sounding of the three.

http://i56.servimg.com/u/f56/18/43/06/17/img-2028.jpg

:rofl:

 

[Audiofilo]

10 metre 2.5mm 322 strand copper cable from eBay for £5.79 with free P&P. You don't need anything else.

 

[andyjm]

I did click through to the links and my statements stand.

Bill

I guess some people just refuse to see (or hear) what is directly in front of them.

Other than the first testimonial from Roy Halee hat BenLaw already quoted, some others said:

Bob Ludwig "The difference the cables made was amazing. Obviously cables can’t make the source signal better, but they almost always make it worse! Cables are a source of noise and other very audible distortions. They can limit resolution, dynamic range and distort the tonal balance. Transparent Audio makes fantastic cables because they understand how to eliminate the noise problems and create a neutral cable.”

Peter Poltun "The recabling of our entire reference sound system in Vienna 4 years ago — with Transparent Ref XL — resulted in the most dramatic overall improvement in every sonic parameter that I have ever experienced in over 28 years of daily intense work with this equipment. It was as though we were hearing the many treasures of our world famous recorded history — made in the very sites where Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler, Strauss and other giants actually worked with our predecessors — musically accurate for the very first time"

Aaron Reiff (from the Skywalker Sound testimonial): During listening tests I was amazed at the drastic differences we uncovered when comparing MIT to other products. So much so, that I went on a mission to learn what made MIT cable sound better in almost every application."

And finally, I think you could learn a thing or two from Jerry Steckling of Skywalker Sound) when you naysayers demand for scientific measurements to support what we hear: "My entire employed life and background has been in professional audio. Over the years, in protracted conversations, with my colleagues, we have talked about the limitations of test methods. We have had to admit how little these test results had to do with what we heard from systems, speakers and acoustic events. We have always had to put the gear away after some point and use our ears to tame the last bits. A system designer’s final test tool is still his ears."

But I guess you can always fall back on the ever convenient placebo effect theory. You can wrongly accuse us common folk or our wives/girlfriends/dogs from being influenced by the placebo effect, but when credible audio and music professionals whose whole life and career revolves around sound hear the difference that cables make, then what more do you want to question? Actually, don't bother with your retort because I can already foresee it so I may as well help you say it - "Because the placebo effect does not discriminate between common folk and audio professionals" or "These professionals must have been paid by Transparent Cables and MIT to give those testimonials".

Krazy,

There is not a single test result, parameter or performance measurement on either of the sites you link to. I notice however that Transparent's HDMI cable has some remarkable properties given the realities of how digital video is transmitted:

"With Transparent High Performance HDMI Video Cables in your system, you will enjoy a cleaner, brighter picture with more vibrant, lifelike colors and rich, dynamic sound from your music and movies.

Given statements like this, it is not unreasonable to question some of the other claims made.

I have no doubt that the quotes of the professionals on the site are true, but without the context in which they were made, it is very hard to know what to make of them. Rather than searching for quotes on the marketing websites of cable manufacturers, how about a link to an independent study instead?

To be clear, I am not sugesting cables can't perform differently - of course they do, what I am saying is that two correctly specified, decently made cables will sound the same.

 

[hifikrazy]

Guess you're singing the same tune as RichDavis on this thread. Be warned, it's 18 pages of tiresome reading.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?13372-Synergistic-Research-HFT

My apologies to the Forum Administrator here if I'm breaking some rule by referencing another forum.

 

[kmlav]

Recently I picked up some Chord signature speaker cable from ebay. There was a bit more than I really needed but it was a good price and it meant I could do both systems. So I sent to back to Chord who divided it up for me.

When I get a bit of time I will post a full review but for the purpose of adding to this discussion I will talk about the impact it had on my smaller second system.

The system is a basic Cyrus Streamline all in one and PMC twenty21 speakers.

If I had not got the extra cable I would not have considered putting something like Chord Signature into this system. The impact the speaker cable has had is immense and has completely transformed the sound into something truly magical. What is amazing is the sound was there all the time it was just the cable holding it back, and the cable that came out would be thought to be "all you need" by many .. including me.

I think what knocked me for six was much as the streamline and the PMC's are great little units they are far from being the top end of Hi Fi and the addition of some decent cables has turned them into something that any Hi Fi enthusiast could easily lose a few hours to.

 

[professorhat]

Krazy,

There is not a single test result, parameter or performance measurement on either of the sites you link to. I notice however that Transparent's HDMI cable has some remarkable properties given the realities of how digital video is transmitted:

"With Transparent High Performance HDMI Video Cables in your system, you will enjoy a cleaner, brighter picture with more vibrant, lifelike colors and rich, dynamic sound from your music and movies.

Given statements like this, it is not unreasonable to question some of the other claims made.

I have no doubt that the quotes of the professionals on the site are true, but without the context in which they were made, it is very hard to know what to make of them. Rather than searching for quotes on the marketing websites of cable manufacturers, how about a link to an independent study instead?

To be clear, I am not sugesting cables can't perform differently - of course they do, what I am saying is that two correctly specified, decently made cables will sound the same.

But he was only responding to abacus' claims (backed up by posts from yourself and cheeseboy), that

Top professional film and music studios have equipment that makes even top end Hi Fi look and sound like a budget setup, and if these expensive cables gave a better sound quality they would use them, however they don’t because these s expensive exotic cables don’t make a difference so save your money and don’t be taken in by the hype.

This is an argument I've seen a lot over the years on the forum, and rather than just posting "oh yes they do", hifikrazy has posted links (call it evidence if you like) which actually show the above statement is incorrect. You mention context, but when one of the quotes is

"The recabling of our entire reference sound system in Vienna 4 years ago — with Transparent Ref XL — resulted in the most dramatic overall improvement in every sonic parameter that I have ever experienced in over 28 years of daily intense work with this equipment"

that doesn't leave a lot of leg room for something to be taken out of context. He's directly referenced the name of the cable in question and the "dramatic overall improvement" in sound.

Okay, you can go back to the lack of scientific blind testing argument if you wish, but it certainly seems the former argument of top end studios using any old cabling (and one you directly backed up) has now been properly refuted, at least in some instances? It certainly seems some of the top end professionals very much do believe in there being the potential for a cable to have a less negative effect on the overall sound compared to others. If everyone can admit that much, at least some progress has been made today...

 

[unknown]

exactly. you would be surprised what basic/budget kit can do when better cables than the free (rubbish) ones provided are replaced.

only once i replaced the cheap/free cables with some better quality ones did i actually get to "unlock" what my kit was capable of.........

(try replacing your powermax plus with some russ andrews powerkords - you'll never feel like changing your hardware again !)

 

[TrevC]

exactly. you would be surprised what basic/budget kit can do when better cables than the free (rubbish) ones provided are replaced.

only once i replaced the cheap/free cables with some better quality ones did i actually get to "unlock" what my kit was capable of.........

(try replacing your powermax plus with some russ andrews powerkords - you'll never feel like changing your hardware again !)

That's right! I put a Russ power cable on my old Bush radio and it now sounds like the musicians are in the room with me!. Even my lodger remarked on how much better it is than his top of the range gear.

I must fit one to my teasmade to improve the taste of the tea.

 

[professorhat]

Ah that's better - can always count on TrevC to take us back to the proper cable threads of old

 

[matt49]

Okay, you can go back to the lack of scientific blind testing argument if you wish, but it certainly seems the former argument of top end studios using any old cabling (and one you directly backed up) has now been properly refuted, at least in some instances? It certainly seems some of the top end professionals very much do believe in there being the potential for a cable to have a less negative effect on the overall sound compared to others. If everyone can admit that much, at least some progress has been made today...

Hope this helps, Bill.

 

[abacus]

Krazy,

There is not a single test result, parameter or performance measurement on either of the sites you link to. I notice however that Transparent's HDMI cable has some remarkable properties given the realities of how digital video is transmitted:

"With Transparent High Performance HDMI Video Cables in your system, you will enjoy a cleaner, brighter picture with more vibrant, lifelike colors and rich, dynamic sound from your music and movies.

Given statements like this, it is not unreasonable to question some of the other claims made.

I have no doubt that the quotes of the professionals on the site are true, but without the context in which they were made, it is very hard to know what to make of them. Rather than searching for quotes on the marketing websites of cable manufacturers, how about a link to an independent study instead?

To be clear, I am not sugesting cables can't perform differently - of course they do, what I am saying is that two correctly specified, decently made cables will sound the same.

But he was only responding to abacus' claims (backed up by posts from yourself and cheeseboy), that

Top professional film and music studios have equipment that makes even top end Hi Fi look and sound like a budget setup, and if these expensive cables gave a better sound quality they would use them, however they don’t because these s expensive exotic cables don’t make a difference so save your money and don’t be taken in by the hype.

This is an argument I've seen a lot over the years on the forum, and rather than just posting "oh yes they do", hifikrazy has posted links (call it evidence if you like) which actually show the above statement is incorrect. You mention context, but when one of the quotes is

"The recabling of our entire reference sound system in Vienna 4 years ago — with Transparent Ref XL — resulted in the most dramatic overall improvement in every sonic parameter that I have ever experienced in over 28 years of daily intense work with this equipment"

that doesn't leave a lot of leg room for something to be taken out of context. He's directly referenced the name of the cable in question and the "dramatic overall improvement" in sound.

Okay, you can go back to the lack of scientific blind testing argument if you wish, but it certainly seems the former argument of top end studios using any old cabling (and one you directly backed up) has now been properly refuted, at least in some instances? It certainly seems some of the top end professionals very much do believe in there being the potential for a cable to have a less negative effect on the overall sound compared to others. If everyone can admit that much, at least some progress has been made today...

If you read all the details in the links provided (Rather than picking points that suit a purpose) you will find the improvements relate to a combination of equipment and cables, (Not the cables on their own) hence the links have no relevance to this thread. (And the reason I stand by my earlier statements)

Hope this clears up the confusion

Bill