Help with a pair of Focal Aria 948 please

[Krorghar]

Greetings People.

Let me introduce Myself please. I am a total novice to the Hi -Fi world. When I was a child I lived with my old brother, and he had an old Marantz Model 4240 feeding a pair of Celestion Ditton 33 Speakers. That setup was continuosly playing at home, and I grew up listening to them, and I got my ears used to that wonderfull sound.

Now that I have grown up, I thougth it was my time to get a nice equipment for myself. First of all I wanted a 7.1 set up to watch movies at home, and got a Marantz SR7008 receiver. I was planing to get a good Turntable, feed it to the marantz, and be able to hear our own vinyl colection again, then I decided to get some good main speakers, and purchased a pair of Focal Aria 948. That was my first novice mistake, since soon it was clear that the Marantz is a good 7.1 Amplifier, but it lacks when you intend to power the Arias 948 with it.

Told the problem to my dealer, and he lend me a Devialet 120 Amplifier, so i could feed the Focals properly, with that kind of gear, I should get the sound quality that I remebered from my childhood, but, to my surprise and alarm, the experience was a disapointment.

With the devialet the Arias sounded much better, of course, but I feel that the speakers lack bass power. The sound is very clear and defined, but I find it lacking in presence. It doesnt "fill" the room, dont know if Im expressing myself properly. Tweaked with the amplifier a little adding more bass, improved a little, but still not the bass I remembered from childhood, added more bass and then the sound turned into a mess.

So guys, I Dont know if the problem are the Speakers, the amplifiers, or maybe the problem are my expectations, that are too high, please give me some advice, Im pretty disappointed with my purchase.

 

[ID.]

Did you audition the Focals before buying them? It sounds to me like you do not like how the speakers are voiced, and if there is more bass to be gotten out of them I'd imagine the Devialet should be more than capable of teasing it out.

While I think different amps will sound different, I still think the speakers themselves will have the biggest impact on the sound Although as someone who has always used standmount speakers I have trouble understanding how drivers and cabinets of that size could fail to produce fairly impressive bass.

I'm really guessing here, but modern speakers tend to be voiced a bit differently from older speakers. They are often more forward, detailed and the bass is tighter, so it might be that you are looking for a more classically voiced speaker. If you don't want to sell the speakers and start over again, there's no harm in testing them out with some other amps. Personally I'd be very interested to hear them on the end of an Arcam A49.

 

[Tzutzu]

Hi Krorghar,

My opinion is that with a small fraction of the money you are willing to spend for your system you can buy a replica of your old combo. This should help remembering the sound (sometimes we tend to keep in memory only the good things). If it is like you remembered, you've got a winner.

If not, I second ID: go for A49.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi there, and welcome.

Coming from the warm cosy sound of yesteryear, Devialet + Focal would indeed be a bit of a shock. You are combining two components that have a very clean, detailed and "hear-through" sound.

If you like the Devialet, then you might look at speakers from Sonus Faber, Harbeth and Spendor Classic range. If you want to stick with the Focals, look at SS amps like Sugden, Electrocomaniet and Arcam; or Valve amps from Unison Research and Icon Audio.

Hybrid amps from Croft or Pathos could also work for you.

 

[bigfish786]

my experience with my own focal speakers has been very positive, they are a marvelous piece of kit. i would reccommend you try experimenting with speaker positioning, try and follow the guide that you get with the speakers, they really do need a lot of toe in, and being front//downward ported for bass, you can get them quite close to the rear wall, which can improve bass. also, if yours have the cast bases, try to get the speaker spikes low, so there is not much clearance from the floor, again, this will increase the bass.

persist, it will be worth it.

 

[ID.]

It could well be. You seem to have a lot of stuff near the sides and rear of the speakers. Normally if speakers are placed in corners it makes the bass boomier, but I can only guess what the effect of those boxes and hollow glass display cabinets would be. My initial impression is that the speakers are a bit big for the room and you are just asking for bass problems, but I would have expected the issues to be woolly, imprecise bass. The effect will depend on many factors in the room. In my own living room I pretty much hace a bass null at what is the theoretical ideal listening point, but when one stands up the bass becomes perfect. If it is the room, the bass will vary depending on where in the room the listener is and where the speakers are located. As suggested above, try moving the speakers around. Not just the placement but the angle they are facing as well. A couple of inches can make a fairly significant difference.

You can also try varying your listening position. A little further forward or back may make a surprising difference.

Either way, playing around with placement is the cheapest and easiest tweak you can make, so why not start with that.

 

[Krorghar]

Many thanks for the post guys.

I know is a common newbie error but I couldnt give the speakers an audition, since my town is small and the supplies of my dealer are limited, I bought em blind, hoping for the best . Anyway told him about the problem and he pointed that it could be the rooms fault. So I have taken some pics, and draw a diagram, before messing with amps and speakers models, I think you guys couls have a look and give me some advice pls.

Room floor and roof is that stuff that pretends to imitate real wood, I dont know the name in english, is a kind of corrugated wooden grains, with a epoxy resin covering it. All walls are made of Pladur, the spanish commercial name for gypsun plates, Also I got some glass expositors for my figures that I think are a perfect reflexion material for sound. Listening distance from speakers are about 2 to 2.5 meters (6.5 to 8 feet)

Here you can se the actual speaker positions (the boxes will be replaced for another glass expositor in near future)

Here you can see the speakers in detail. The feet pins are not installed, while Im waiting for some protectors, since they just ate the floor.

I presume that my room is far from optimal as a listening place, but is what I got, and since the electrical instalation is allready made, is nearly impossible to rearrange the stuff. Anyway im more concerned about the speaker than the room, please let me know what you think guys. If i should sustitute the speaker or maybe somethnig I can do in my room.

 

[Krorghar]

Thanks ID, ill play a little with speakers positions, as u say, it doesnt cost money to try *biggrin*

 

[praggers1]

They look more like the 936 than the 948 in the photo's!?

 

[iceman16]

IMHO.. I think there's too much stuff in that room which gives negative impact on the quality of sound you are looking for. Your speakers should'nt be placed close to the glass expositor etc..for you to hear the real capability

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO. Messsing around with speaker position may help a little, but will not get you back to the sound you are looking for....this will only happen with a change of speakers or a change of amp.

The first refelection point on the left speaker is glass, which is not good....and if there will be glass behind the right one, you will have a similar problem.

Nb. A rug on the floor in front of the speakers should also help, but will not deal with the fundamental problem.

Remember, there is trying to convince yourself you like the sound, and then there is actually loving it...make sure you are doing the latter.

 

[matt49]

Did you audition the Focals before buying them? It sounds to me like you do not like how the speakers are voiced, and if there is more bass to be gotten out of them I'd imagine the Devialet should be more than capable of teasing it out.

While I think different amps will sound different, I still think the speakers themselves will have the biggest impact on the sound Although as someone who has always used standmount speakers I have trouble understanding how drivers and cabinets of that size could fail to produce fairly impressive bass.

I'm really guessing here, but modern speakers tend to be voiced a bit differently from older speakers. They are often more forward, detailed and the bass is tighter, so it might be that you are looking for a more classically voiced speaker. If you don't want to sell the speakers and start over again, there's no harm in testing them out with some other amps. Personally I'd be very interested to hear them on the end of an Arcam A49.

I'd second ID's advice.

The Devialet is more than capable of driving the Focals properly. It sounds as though the Focals simply don't suit your taste and/or the space they're in. But most likely the problem is the voicing of the Focals.

I think it will be very hard to rescue the situation with a different amp. As ID says, there's no harm in trying, but I'd be pretty pessimistic, I'm afraid.

Matt

 

[unsleepable]

I'd say the speakers are too big and too close for the space. All the glass won't help. If possible, I'd try something different. At least, going front-ported seems reasonable.

Why don't you listen to other speakers? Maybe something like PMC, or even ATC, could work well. And would you consider standmounters?

 

[Krorghar]

Many thanks for all the advices guys.

Sadly the rug option is very difficult for me, because im handicaped and live in a wheel chair, and a rug would difficult my movement in the room *sorry2*

My dealer has offered to change the floor speakers for smaller, high quality ones, he claim that since the room can´t be addressed, smaller speakers should make less powered wave sounds that shouls interfere and cancel less between themselves, and so, I should get a better sound. He have sugested the Atohm GT1, that sells in a pack with the devialet, and can benefit from the SAM system thats built in the amplifier

These are (the smaller ones in the floor stand):

I know I have a real problem here with the room. My dealer has also told me, that he can install a wall picture, that is made of some anti-reflective stuff, in the wall where the bed is (the opposite from the speakers), to help improve the room a little. But i dont know what could be done with the cristal expositors.

He will bring the speakers tomorrow to have a test directly In my room, will let you know if I get an improvement.

Also I am considering the B&W CM10 floorstanders, but I fear they are also oversized for the room.

Anyway, Do you guys think that the problem are mostly the speakers, the room, or a mixture of both?

Again many many thanks forn the support and advices, you are helping me a lot.

 

[Krorghar]

They look more like the 936 than the 948 in the photo's!?

I can guarantee they are the 948, they got a tweeter and 3 cones.

 

[plastic penguin]

Many thanks for the post guys.

I know is a common newbie error but I couldnt give the speakers an audition, since my town is small and the supplies of my dealer are limited, I bought em blind, hoping for the best . Anyway told him about the problem and he pointed that it could be the rooms fault. So I have taken some pics, and draw a diagram, before messing with amps and speakers models, I think you guys couls have a look and give me some advice pls.

Room floor and roof is that stuff that pretends to imitate real wood, I dont know the name in english, is a kind of corrugated wooden grains, with a epoxy resin covering it. All walls are made of Pladur, the spanish commercial name for gypsun plates, Also I got some glass expositors for my figures that I think are a perfect reflexion material for sound. Listening distance from speakers are about 2 to 2.5 meters (6.5 to 8 feet)

Here you can se the actual speaker positions (the boxes will be replaced for another glass expositor in near future)

Here you can see the speakers in detail. The feet pins are not installed, while Im waiting for some protectors, since they just ate the floor.

I presume that my room is far from optimal as a listening place, but is what I got, and since the electrical instalation is allready made, is nearly impossible to rearrange the stuff. Anyway im more concerned about the speaker than the room, please let me know what you think guys. If i should sustitute the speaker or maybe somethnig I can do in my room.

From having experience with older Focals, the room acoustics doesn't do them any favours, nor does having them so close together or the left-hand one so close to a glass cabinet.

If you purchased these from a reputable dealer then look at smaller (or even wall mounted), but can't advise what to try because I don't know what brands are available to you.

Focals do need smooth amplification and/or forgiving room acoustics to really shine.

 

[CnoEvil]

Anyway, Do you guys think that the problem are mostly the speakers, the room, or a mixture of both?

I think the problem is likely to be 80% coming from the mixing of Devialet with Focal, which is the opposide of what you are looking for; and 20% the room.

Is it possible to find out all the brands of speaker that your dealer stocks.

If possible you need to be looking at Sonus Faber, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Range and possibly Kef R Series.....if he doesn't stock these, ask if he has the contacts to get his hands on some.

I have never heard Atohm, so can't comment.

I suspect if you find the right match for the Devialet, you will be very pleased.

Edit. Having read about the Atomms, they are an interesting little speaker, which I would expect to be very "fast", refined and with a bass that is a little light (until it is SAM'd). The Treble has a 3 position adjustment knob (a smoother (-1.5dB) or high-definition (+1.5dB) presentation or neutral), which could prove useful.

It will sound very different to the old Dittons, but should be less forward than your Focals - certainly worth a try.

 

[Krorghar]

Yup, precisely, mi dealer is bringing tomorrow a pair of Sonus Faber Olimpica also, we will test them at home with the devialet, and also with a tube amp, will let you know guys, many many thanks

These are the Olimpicas (the small ones):

 

[CnoEvil]

Yup, precisely, mi dealer is bringing tomorrow a pair of Sonus Faber Olimpica also, we will test them at home with the devialet, and also with a tube amp, will let you know guys, many many thanks

These are the Olimpicas (the small ones):

This should sort the problem. *dance4*

The Tube amp is also a good idea....do you know which one (Jadis by any chance?)

Don't forget to let us know what you think.

 

[matt49]

I hope the Atohms or Sonus fabers work for you.

My money would be on the Atohms, because SAM will give them added bass depth and definition. I found the Olympica Is very forward and bright when I heard them (with a Devialet), but it may be that the pair I heard were not properly run in.

Anyway, good luck! And be sure to follow your own preferences and not what the dealer says!

Matt

 

[Krorghar]

Sure my Friend, of course will let you guys know the results (with pics). About the tube amp, I have no clue, all I know its 35 Watts per channel, hes a dealer on Audio Research Tube amplifiers, so it may be its 35W model, tomorrow I will be able to elaborate further.

 

[Infiniteloop]

The one thing not mentioned is your source. - Could this be the start of your problem?

I recently heard the Devialet 200 with some Focal 1008Be's and Focal Diablo Utopia's.

(The 1008Be's and the Utopia's are well regarded for bass response!)

These combinations were superb, with certainly no lack of Bass. Clean, clear and musical.

The source was a MacBook Pro running Audirvana+.

Maybe some bookshelf speakers might suit your room better?

 

[CnoEvil]

The one thing not mentioned is your source. - Could this be the start of your problem?

I recently heard the Devialet 200 with some Focal 1008Be's and Focal Diablo Utopia's.

(The 1008Be's and the Utopia's are well regarded for bass response!)

These combinations were superb, with certainly no lack of Bass. Clean, clear and musical.

The source was a MacBook Pro running Audirvana+.

Maybe some bookshelf speakers might suit your room better?

You kept that under your hat....how about a more detailed write-up?

 

[CnoEvil]

Sure my Friend, of course will let you guys know the results (with pics). About the tube amp, I have no clue, all I know its 35 Watts per channel, hes a dealer on Audio Research Tube amplifiers, so it may be its 35W model, tomorrow I will be able to elaborate further.

I also think you will like the sound of a Valve amp, and it wouldn't surprise me if that is the direction you went....decisions, decisions.

Ps. Audio Research should go very well with Sonus Faber, though I don't think they do a 35W Amp.

 

[Krorghar]

Yup the Source, sorry guys forgot about the source ....

This is the source, (my dealer let me have it as a test) Its a Krell (dont know the model) that is directly feed to the Devialet by an optical cable, its reproducing regular sound comercial CD´s. Never thought that the problem could be there *dash1* It looks like quality equipment, but as a newbie I can´t tell:

I hope is a quality source *pardon*