Help needed - unhappy with Arcam sound.

[floydfan]

SYSTEM: Arcam A85 + P85 Amps, Arcam CD92, Quad 11L (mk1) Speakers, Van Den Hul D102 Mk111 Interconnects, QED XTUBE peaker cable to HF & Van Den Hul to LF. Apollo equipment stand & Partington dreadnought Stands.

PROBLEM: I'm not happy with my set up lately, vocals seem bright with siblance and modern cd's sound rubbish. Mark Knopfler, Madeline Peyroux, Chris Isaac etc sound superb. Can anyone advise? I'm thinking it may be the speakers & am contemplating purchasing the PMC DB1i's and poss upgrade to CD192 which are going for a bargain new on un-named ebay site. Anyone out there with Arcam HiFi who can advise on the problem & solution? Is it the A85 Amp - i didn't seem to notice this when i had the Cd82?

 

[Anonymous]

What's your room like? Does it have a lot of reflective surfaces like a wooden or laminate floor?

 

[radovantz]

There are good stuffs you have. I think it is about surfaces inside your room.

My room is installed with sound absorbance materials around the wall. Once moved, they sound very bad.

 

[floydfan]

Thanks for response - yes the floor is liminated but never caused any probs with the CD82. I live in aterrace property so limited to the volume i can play music - usually around -25db max. I've read that Quad produce a bright sound thats why i'm looking at new speakers. That brightness dissapears with my friends DULCET REFERENCE 3A speakers but at £1700 they are way above price and need for my system.

 

[John Duncan]

Where's Joel when you need him (he has the same system, having upgraded from 82 to 192 a couple of weeks ago), and runs Dali and ProAc speakers from them. he can probably advise (and have you round for tea).

 

[gbhsi1]

That's a tough question as it can be numerous things that are affecting the sound. I can tell that you are keen in replacing the speakers- how about neat acoustics motive 1 or 2? I am waiting for my motive 2's to arrive. Highly recommended!!! audition first of course!

 

[Anonymous]

The Neats are fantastic speakers. I am testing the Neat Motive 1's this weekend.

 

[JoelSim]

Don't worry fellas, the cavalry is here.

I had a 92 with A85/P85 and upgraded recently to the 192. The two CD players are completely different. In my view the 92 was softer and mellower and the 192 is more hard edged, faster and ever so slightly more detailed. They are both good players in their own rights.

I have a Victorian wooden floorboards, albeit with a small rug in a small living room, and the kitchen where my ProAcs run off the same system is wooden throughout with no soft furnishings whatsoever.

Not once have I experienced bright, sibilance, on either set of speakers, and even less so (if that's possible) with the 92.

I notice that you have 2 different sets of speaker wire - would it be worth as a first step connecting left speaker with QED and right speaker with vdh and then using balance to hear the differences?

If that doesn't indicate where the problem lies, then I personally would invest in a rug or some other soft furnishings, if that didn't work then IMHO it's the speakers - how long have you had them? The 11L speakers, while worthy, are not a patch on the rest of the system. You should be looking to spend about £1k at RRP on speakers new, obviously less 2nd hand.

I've heard good reviews about Neat, I know from personal experience that Linn, Dali, B&W, ProAc all sound wonderful and others have said that about MA too. DB1s are a good shout too.

I suspect from your name that you are ÿFloyd fan. I have to say that Floyd isn't something I feel shows Arcam off in its best light for some reason. DSOTM is not a 100% match as other music is - things as you've highlighted above, rap, dance, vocal, folk, easy listening. That may also be because when I used to listen to Floyd at Uni, I wasn't always compus mentis too which is bound to have an effect!

Funnily enough, the last thing I suggest, if for some reason one of the solutions above doesn't aort things out completely would be to drink red wine rather than beer...

I'll keep thinking anyway but I really think it must be a speaker thing - metal domes?

Joel

ÿ

PS I'm not sure which of the 192 or 92 sound bests - Stone Roses better with the 192 definitely, but some music was better with the 92.ÿ

ÿ

 

[JoelSim]

Bear in mind the comparative cost of your system new.

CD92 £900

A85 £850?

P85 £600?

11L £300?

 

[Anonymous]

I have to throw in a curve ball; the Quad 11L are very good speakers indeed, considerably better than many at the same price, e.g. MA RS1. But I guess there has to be something that gives at that price and a slightly harsh tweeter (although soft dome) might be it. Try the thick rug...

 

[JoelSim]

igglebert:I have to throw in a curve ball; the Quad 11L are very good speakers indeed, considerably better than many at the same price, e.g. MA RS1. But I guess there has to be something that gives at that price and a slightly harsh tweeter (although soft dome) might be it. Try the thick rug...

But seriously Ig, I've never ever had to wince at a single harsh note on what is a very similar system, whereas I have winced while listening to other set-ups.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:
igglebert:I have to throw in a curve ball; the Quad 11L are very good speakers indeed, considerably better than many at the same price, e.g. MA RS1. But I guess there has to be something that gives at that price and a slightly harsh tweeter (although soft dome) might be it. Try the thick rug...

But seriously Ig, I've never ever had to wince at a single harsh note on what is a very similar system, whereas I have winced while listening to other set-ups.

ÿ

A very fair comment. Big rug, big rug, bug rug...

 

[Thaiman]

I blame problem on Speakers! Arcam is not my cup-a-tea but I never heard them to be bright!

 

[JoelSim]

Thaiman:
I blame problem on Speakers!ÿ Arcam is not my cup-a-tea but I never heard them to be bright!ÿ

Cup o' tea Thaiman. Honestly!!!!

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

These are the older quads? as the new ones have been accussed of being a tad bright but the mk1's are pretty laid back ive never had an issue with my 12l's being bright! and thats on the end on of an onkyo AV amp that can be a bit abrasive if partnerd with the wrong speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

Best piece of advise Clare gave me:

"Do you have a cold?"

Having, or had, or even getting a cold can really stick some sharp edges to even the wooliest of systems.

 

[JoelSim]

Hughes123:Best piece of advise Clare gave me:
"Do you have a cold?"

Having, or had, or even getting a cold can really stick some sharp edges to even the wooliest of systems.

It certainly can... music is a no-no for a week afterwards

ÿ

 

[floydfan]

Thanks for info Joel- I do have a thick rug in the room so not an issue there, i'll bear the red wine in mind though nice with Madeleine Peyroux. Happy with the sound of floyd etc these albums are not an issue its stuff like the killers,and more modern albums they just sound naff. I really think i need better quality speakers and maybe a demmo of CD192 or maybe i'm getting fussier as i get older. My pal has really top notch gear way out of my price bracket and he binned the majority of his CD's and changed his taste to Jazz - (niiiice) but for me thats over the top

Mick

 

[floydfan]

igglebert:JoelSim:

igglebert:I have to throw in a curve ball; the Quad 11L are very good speakers indeed, considerably better than many at the same price, e.g. MA RS1. But I guess there has to be something that gives at that price and a slightly harsh tweeter (although soft dome) might be it. Try the thick rug...

But seriously Ig, I've never ever had to wince at a single harsh note on what is a very similar system, whereas I have winced while listening to other set-ups.

A very fair comment. Big rug, big rug, bug rug...

You are correct for the price (£400 new ) the Quads are excellent just think that i should be looking around an £800 pair to match the price of amp,cd etc.

 

[JoelSim]

floydfan:
Thanks for info Joel- I do have a thick rug in the room so not an issue there, i'll bear the red wine in mind though nice with Madeleine Peyroux.ÿ Happy with the sound of floyd etc these albums are not an issue its stuff like the killers,and more modern albums they just sound naff.ÿ I really think i need better quality speakers and maybe a demmo of CD192 or maybe i'm getting fussier as i get older.ÿ My pal has really top notch gear way out of my price bracket and he binned the majority of his CD's and changed his taste to Jazz - (niiiice) but for me thats over the top

Mick

That's probably the production values then. Arcam kit can be quite revealing - my Dalis show up bad recordings for what they are, the ProAcs are a little more flexible.

ÿ

 

[floydfan]

JoelSim:floydfan:

Thanks for info Joel- I do have a thick rug in the room so not an issue there, i'll bear the red wine in mind though nice with Madeleine Peyroux. Happy with the sound of floyd etc these albums are not an issue its stuff like the killers,and more modern albums they just sound naff. I really think i need better quality speakers and maybe a demmo of CD192 or maybe i'm getting fussier as i get older. My pal has really top notch gear way out of my price bracket and he binned the majority of his CD's and changed his taste to Jazz - (niiiice) but for me thats over the top

Mick

That's probably the production values then. Arcam kit can be quite revealing - my Dalis show up bad recordings for what they are, the ProAcs are a little more flexible.

Thats why i thought it might be the quads they are quoted for being ruthless and showing the recordings for what they are

 

[John Duncan]

The only thing I would add is a variation on Joel's 'different cables to left and right', which I personally don't think will work, if only because when you listen to only one channel using the balance control, it sounds terrible anyway, but my idea was swapping the cables running to HF and LF - they may give you a slightly different presentation, and if they do then it may be worth investigating a different cable layout.

Aside from that, Joel's right - modern music can just sound rubbish..........

 

[JoelSim]

JohnDuncan:The only thing I would add is a variation on Joel's 'different cables to left and right', which I personally don't think will work, if only because when you listen to only one channel using the balance control, it sounds terrible anyway, but my idea was swapping the cables running to HF and LF - they may give you a slightly different presentation, and if they do then it may be worth investigating a different cable layout.Aside from that, Joel's right - modern music can just sound rubbish..........

ÿ

Even if it sounds rubbish, there may be one side that sounds more rubbish

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

New speakers bud, oh, and a new amp...........

New recordings are sometimes compressed too much, I find turning them down a volume notch or 3 works a treat.

The Killers - poor musicians but fabulous songs - I think Brandon holds them together.

 

[floydfan]

Thanks - Will be going with new speakers but not the amp, still toying with the CD192 @ £400 new it's a steal,might raise around £300 for CD92 & Quads on EBAY, Wot do you think CD92 or CD192? Agree about compression on cd's though.