Hi all, I'm looking for an HDMI cable to connect my Onkyo 808 Bluray player with my Onkyo TX-NR5008 amp. Length appx 1 meter max, HDMI 1.4, highspeed and ethernet required. But MOST of all, the sound quality of the cable is important. The units are currently connected via a Vivanco Prowire HDX cable (1.5m, 1.4, ethernet, highspeed) which has a VERY dissapointing audio performance. Sound is narrow/flat and lacks performance and detail in mid and high. Furthermore it's too bombastic for me. I swapped the cable for the standard HDMI cable that connects my HDTV box with my amp (a 5 pound alike cable), and the sound was more balanced, more detailed in mid and high but overall quality was so-so (it does a fair job for TV sound though, at least fair enough). I cross checked the sound once more connecting the units thru my existing coax digital cable (an old Ixos one), whilst putting HDMI on audio mute. Here, as well the audio quality improved. Let's not start the dicussion on digital = digital here ;-) I'm seeking your advice on a replacement for the Vivanco cable, sound quality is key, budget is less important. Thanks! Bas
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HDMI cable: Which one to pick?
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professorhat
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Personally, I'd look at the Chord Active SilverPlus. I have the original Chord Active and it's a great cable, especially with the sonic performance - according to WHF, this one is even better.
One that is well made, to the right spec (i.e. v1.4, ethernet etc) and doesn't cost more than 15 quid or so. After all digital is di..... ;-)
jarra:I paid between £60 and £80 for my HDMI leads.....and they do make a big difference.
This is true. They remove a lot more money from your wallet.
This is true. They remove a lot more money from your wallet.
djgandy:This is true. They remove a lot more money from your wallet.
Ah, so now we're saying HDMI cables are an active component, then?
Ah, so now we're saying HDMI cables are an active component, then?
No mine stay still....However a sailor I know has problems.
On a more serious note I moved from £5 leads to the more expensive and the difference in sound quality was obvious.
On a more serious note I moved from £5 leads to the more expensive and the difference in sound quality was obvious.
I temporarily replaced a QED HDMI for a (longer) cheapy. i was surprised how much better the QED was. (Picture - didnt try the audio)
For that length, providing it is well made, any HDMI cable that meets the standard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi) will do.
Thx all,
I'm reading good reviews on the Wireworld Chroma 6, anyone has a say on that one? And ofc Chord, but is the Chord really worth going the extra 35 Pounds towards the Wireworld?
I'm reading good reviews on the Wireworld Chroma 6, anyone has a say on that one? And ofc Chord, but is the Chord really worth going the extra 35 Pounds towards the Wireworld?
Surely you would just buy the cable and if it's no better than the cable you have, return it. Therefore buy it from a retailer that will allow you to try it first.
Very few people have the time or inclination to compare high end cables other than the magazines. IMHO, I think you should just stick with what you have as I cannot believe you can tell any audible or visual difference between HDMI cables. Sorry but I really can't and I have tried. Have you actually thought about how it could it actually be possible?
Very few people have the time or inclination to compare high end cables other than the magazines. IMHO, I think you should just stick with what you have as I cannot believe you can tell any audible or visual difference between HDMI cables. Sorry but I really can't and I have tried. Have you actually thought about how it could it actually be possible?
Sure d4v3pum4, I did. I assume you have read my previous posts on the issue. The comparison between the both HDMI cables on one hand showed a clear difference making the cheap HDTV HDMI cable a winner over the Prowire. Still the cheap one didn't meet the specs of the Ixos coax digital interlink I used to use.
So here I ended up, KNOWING the prowire didn't perform, my ears do not lie. it's not about vision, but purely about sound qualities. My Onkyo 5008 does upsampling (if required) anyway to 1080p and it does the trick pretty well. So visual issues are out of scope here.
I sure had my thoughts on how it could be possible. Either the build quality or the shielding of the cable itself apparently has shortcomings, assuming that every 0 and 1 will be transferred, but apparently get altered by external issues.
I will attend the Bristol show (flying in from The Netherlands) and I'm seriously considering taking both cables with me... the difference is SO obvious that anyone who still thinks digital = digital should hear it.
Just looking for an advice here on HDMI with the best sound qualities here, as said....
So here I ended up, KNOWING the prowire didn't perform, my ears do not lie. it's not about vision, but purely about sound qualities. My Onkyo 5008 does upsampling (if required) anyway to 1080p and it does the trick pretty well. So visual issues are out of scope here.
I sure had my thoughts on how it could be possible. Either the build quality or the shielding of the cable itself apparently has shortcomings, assuming that every 0 and 1 will be transferred, but apparently get altered by external issues.
I will attend the Bristol show (flying in from The Netherlands) and I'm seriously considering taking both cables with me... the difference is SO obvious that anyone who still thinks digital = digital should hear it.
Just looking for an advice here on HDMI with the best sound qualities here, as said....
I still think you're talking absolute balearics but if you insist on spending daft money on HDMI cables, go for it. As it is subjective, I cannot see how you can honestly get a definitive answer.
The only positive from your post, that I can see is that you think that a cheap cable is better than one costing £lots. Therefore, I think if the subject is going to be concluded, we need scientific proof. Come on WHF, do it. It is the only way to put the subject to bed once and for all. There are plenty of articles on the web disproving what you say. Back up the claims. Prove it. Stick your neck out. I dare you.
Try before you buy and if you're happy go for it. I for one, will save my money and buy blurays.
The only positive from your post, that I can see is that you think that a cheap cable is better than one costing £lots. Therefore, I think if the subject is going to be concluded, we need scientific proof. Come on WHF, do it. It is the only way to put the subject to bed once and for all. There are plenty of articles on the web disproving what you say. Back up the claims. Prove it. Stick your neck out. I dare you.
Try before you buy and if you're happy go for it. I for one, will save my money and buy blurays.
professorhat
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d4v3pum4:As it is subjective, I cannot see how you can honestly get a definitive answer.
That's true of any piece of hifi / home cinema you buy though so you may as well say the whole forum is a waste of time. At any rate, I don't think the OP has come on to the forums looking for definitive answers, he's just asked for other people's opinions who've tried a few different HDMI cables and noticed a difference in sound performance.
That's true of any piece of hifi / home cinema you buy though so you may as well say the whole forum is a waste of time. At any rate, I don't think the OP has come on to the forums looking for definitive answers, he's just asked for other people's opinions who've tried a few different HDMI cables and noticed a difference in sound performance.
professorhat:
That's true of any piece of hifi / home cinema you buy though so you may as well say the whole forum is a waste of time.
Not at all - all analogue interconnects make a real difference and all hardware differs in spec, even purely digital hardware differ in the way they process data.
However digital is digital, it can be streamed, copied & copied & copied & copied etc etc and what you get at the end is still the same therefore an HDMI cable is an HDMI cable and it will either work or it won't work. Therefore as long as it is well constructed to the correct HDMI standards, so it works, it will be as good as any other HDMI cable that, er, works.
That's true of any piece of hifi / home cinema you buy though so you may as well say the whole forum is a waste of time.
Not at all - all analogue interconnects make a real difference and all hardware differs in spec, even purely digital hardware differ in the way they process data.
However digital is digital, it can be streamed, copied & copied & copied & copied etc etc and what you get at the end is still the same therefore an HDMI cable is an HDMI cable and it will either work or it won't work. Therefore as long as it is well constructed to the correct HDMI standards, so it works, it will be as good as any other HDMI cable that, er, works.
I would go for the Chord.
I suspect that I had a problem with my QED classic cable as my Apple TV2 seem to disconnect sometimes. As the Chord is now available for half price and based on the recommendation from another thread, I got that.
Using the more expensive Chord for my Blu-Ray player, I moved the BluRay's QED performance HDMI to the Apple TV and was really surprised by the improvement in picture and sound. I didn't expect anything at all from cables from the same brand.
After a week I swapped the Chord with the QED performance just to test it out and see that the bluray picture and sound are different. I can't say which is better, but simply different. I certainly would have paid more than the QED classic, but not sure if the Chord at the old price was worth it.
I suspect that I had a problem with my QED classic cable as my Apple TV2 seem to disconnect sometimes. As the Chord is now available for half price and based on the recommendation from another thread, I got that.
Using the more expensive Chord for my Blu-Ray player, I moved the BluRay's QED performance HDMI to the Apple TV and was really surprised by the improvement in picture and sound. I didn't expect anything at all from cables from the same brand.
After a week I swapped the Chord with the QED performance just to test it out and see that the bluray picture and sound are different. I can't say which is better, but simply different. I certainly would have paid more than the QED classic, but not sure if the Chord at the old price was worth it.
I'd love to know how these expensive cables make a difference. It must be hell to make them. I'd hate to be the test engineer sending bitstreams down one of these cables cable then finding completely different data is coming out the other end.
Oh wait, no I wouldn't. I just throw that cable in the bin because it is faulty. 🙂 You see with digital it is extremely easy to test if a component is working correctly. If you copy something onto a CD, USB drive or even over the internet, and the copy has changed from the original then you have a problem somewhere. Those changes don't amount to better contrast, more high frequencies, or improved grammar in the case of a word document. They result in junk, at least 99.999999999999999999999999% of the time.
Now if you have a long run to do the cable choice is important. You see as the cable gets longer, the signal will attenuate and eventually it will get to the point where the receiver cannot distinguish between what is a 1 and what is a 0. To fix this you have to either output the signal at a higher power, or ensure there is less loss in signal quality along the cable.
You'll probably find that all these expensive cables probably originate from the same factory in China anyway. The difference is they stick a pretty connector on the end then wrap the cable in more expensive looking clothing.
But oh well, if it makes people believe they are seeing something then why not, the fact of the matter is that if someone changed the cable without you knowing, well you wouldn't know.
I've yet to see a scientific double blind test with a control group conducted on this issue. Of course if you could prove it James Randi would give you a million dollars. Also thousands of HDMI engineers would be clamouring to find out how some magical cable is changing the data reaching the receiving but also doing so in a positive way, despite the cable having know knowledge at all about the underlying protocol or the data that is going across it!
Oh wait, no I wouldn't. I just throw that cable in the bin because it is faulty. 🙂 You see with digital it is extremely easy to test if a component is working correctly. If you copy something onto a CD, USB drive or even over the internet, and the copy has changed from the original then you have a problem somewhere. Those changes don't amount to better contrast, more high frequencies, or improved grammar in the case of a word document. They result in junk, at least 99.999999999999999999999999% of the time.
Now if you have a long run to do the cable choice is important. You see as the cable gets longer, the signal will attenuate and eventually it will get to the point where the receiver cannot distinguish between what is a 1 and what is a 0. To fix this you have to either output the signal at a higher power, or ensure there is less loss in signal quality along the cable.
You'll probably find that all these expensive cables probably originate from the same factory in China anyway. The difference is they stick a pretty connector on the end then wrap the cable in more expensive looking clothing.
But oh well, if it makes people believe they are seeing something then why not, the fact of the matter is that if someone changed the cable without you knowing, well you wouldn't know.
I've yet to see a scientific double blind test with a control group conducted on this issue. Of course if you could prove it James Randi would give you a million dollars. Also thousands of HDMI engineers would be clamouring to find out how some magical cable is changing the data reaching the receiving but also doing so in a positive way, despite the cable having know knowledge at all about the underlying protocol or the data that is going across it!
professorhat
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Childs1962:professorhat:d4v3pum4:As it is subjective, I cannot see how you can honestly get a definitive answer.
That's true of any piece of hifi / home cinema you buy though so you may as well say the whole forum is a waste of time.
Not at all - all analogue interconnects make a real difference and all hardware differs in spec, even purely digital hardware differ in the way they process data.
My point was all hifi / home cinema comparisons are subjective (yes, even differences in analogue cables are subjective) so to ask what was the point in asking because it is subjective is silly, since that's the whole point of these forums.
I'm not getting into the whole digital is digital argument, because (a) it's really quite dull now and (b) especially since the OP specifically asked people not to in his first post.
That's true of any piece of hifi / home cinema you buy though so you may as well say the whole forum is a waste of time.
Not at all - all analogue interconnects make a real difference and all hardware differs in spec, even purely digital hardware differ in the way they process data.
My point was all hifi / home cinema comparisons are subjective (yes, even differences in analogue cables are subjective) so to ask what was the point in asking because it is subjective is silly, since that's the whole point of these forums.
I'm not getting into the whole digital is digital argument, because (a) it's really quite dull now and (b) especially since the OP specifically asked people not to in his first post.
Is this discussion not unlike the arguement for speaker cable. Does bell wire not offer the same result as expensive cable, after all its just a signal thats passed down the wire.
jarra:Is this discussion not unlike the arguement for speaker cable. Does bell wire not offer the same result as expensive cable, after all its just a signal thats passed down the wire.
No, an analogue signal, such as in speaker cable or phono interconnects, can be influenced by the cable, this is without question.
However a digital signal either gets through or it doesnt, it either works or it doesnt with nothing in between.
No, an analogue signal, such as in speaker cable or phono interconnects, can be influenced by the cable, this is without question.
However a digital signal either gets through or it doesnt, it either works or it doesnt with nothing in between.
Childs1962:
jarra:Is this discussion not unlike the arguement for speaker cable. Does bell wire not offer the same result as expensive cable, after all its just a signal thats passed down the wire.
No, an analogue signal, such as in speaker cable or phono interconnects, can be influenced by the cable, this is without question.
However a digital signal either gets through or it doesnt, it either works or it doesnt with nothing in between.
Thanks for that....now I know.
jarra:Is this discussion not unlike the arguement for speaker cable. Does bell wire not offer the same result as expensive cable, after all its just a signal thats passed down the wire.
No, an analogue signal, such as in speaker cable or phono interconnects, can be influenced by the cable, this is without question.
However a digital signal either gets through or it doesnt, it either works or it doesnt with nothing in between.
Thanks for that....now I know.
professorhat
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Childs1962:No, an analogue signal, such as in speaker cable or phono interconnects, can be influenced by the cable, this is without question.
Not to some...
Not to some...
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