It gets confusing, due to HDMI's change of designation, but yes, some cables previously designated as 1.3 are able to support all the features required of the new high speed cables.
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CES Hands On - Samsung HW-Q990F review
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
basver:
Andrew and Professorhat, thanks!
So, a fully wired highspeed "1.3" cable would support any feature (3D, 4K etc) currently referred to as "1.4". Isn't the 1.4 statement on the leads marketing bs then and is the Chord 1.3 version for some 40 quid a bargain???
It won't do ARC.
Andrew and Professorhat, thanks!
So, a fully wired highspeed "1.3" cable would support any feature (3D, 4K etc) currently referred to as "1.4". Isn't the 1.4 statement on the leads marketing bs then and is the Chord 1.3 version for some 40 quid a bargain???
It won't do ARC.
One thing that I find interesting is that as somebody who sells TV equipment and related accessories (in a national chain many of you wouldn't consider going in, but anyway...!) I have asked my superiors that if the expensive HDMI cables we are supposed to sell make a difference to picture or sound, why don't we have a simple demo in store which shows the difference?
The premium HDMI cables we make lots of money. The margin on them is very high. We would sell lots more if it were possible to demonstrate the benefits in store rather than saying "honestly, if you don't see a difference then bring it back" because many won't spend £50 rather than £5 on a cable when I have no way of showing what difference it makes. We have a demo showing identical TVs connected to the same source with composite, scart, component and HDMI to highlight the difference so I don't think a similar demo using different HDMI cables would impossible to get going.
If you can demonstrate something is better, people will often buy it. An example of this is when people come to me looking for an iPod dock, many people want to spend around £50 or less. In many cases I show them what they could get if they spent a bit more money. Something such as the Logitech PureFi a Sony which cost £90-100. I was initially surprised how many people would happily pay the extra after a demonstration, but I suppose if you know something is better and you can afford it you are fairly likely to buy it.
None of the stores I've wandered in to, and I struggle to walk past an AV store/department without going in (much to my girlfriend's annoyance), have had a demo set up showing the difference between HDMI cables. This includes national chains, department stores, brand specific stores and specialist chains. Maybe the more expensive independant type of store would be happy to set up a demo if somebody asked them to, but I've never asked.
For the record, I'm of the "if it's well built and complies with HDMI standards it will be fine" opinion. I have yet to see any difference between HDMI cables I have used both at work and at home besides the quality of the construction. I think the reason nowhere has such a demo set up is because even less people would buy the expensive cables.
The premium HDMI cables we make lots of money. The margin on them is very high. We would sell lots more if it were possible to demonstrate the benefits in store rather than saying "honestly, if you don't see a difference then bring it back" because many won't spend £50 rather than £5 on a cable when I have no way of showing what difference it makes. We have a demo showing identical TVs connected to the same source with composite, scart, component and HDMI to highlight the difference so I don't think a similar demo using different HDMI cables would impossible to get going.
If you can demonstrate something is better, people will often buy it. An example of this is when people come to me looking for an iPod dock, many people want to spend around £50 or less. In many cases I show them what they could get if they spent a bit more money. Something such as the Logitech PureFi a Sony which cost £90-100. I was initially surprised how many people would happily pay the extra after a demonstration, but I suppose if you know something is better and you can afford it you are fairly likely to buy it.
None of the stores I've wandered in to, and I struggle to walk past an AV store/department without going in (much to my girlfriend's annoyance), have had a demo set up showing the difference between HDMI cables. This includes national chains, department stores, brand specific stores and specialist chains. Maybe the more expensive independant type of store would be happy to set up a demo if somebody asked them to, but I've never asked.
For the record, I'm of the "if it's well built and complies with HDMI standards it will be fine" opinion. I have yet to see any difference between HDMI cables I have used both at work and at home besides the quality of the construction. I think the reason nowhere has such a demo set up is because even less people would buy the expensive cables.
alwatson:
One thing that I find interesting is that as somebody who sells TV equipment and related accessories (in a national chain many of you wouldn't consider going in, but anyway...!) I have asked my superiors that if the expensive HDMI cables we are supposed to sell make a difference to picture or sound, why don't we have a simple demo in store which shows the difference?
The premium HDMI cables we make lots of money. The margin on them is very high. We would sell lots more if it were possible to demonstrate the benefits in store rather than saying "honestly, if you don't see a difference then bring it back" because many won't spend £50 rather than £5 on a cable when I have no way of showing what difference it makes. We have a demo showing identical TVs connected to the same source with composite, scart, component and HDMI to highlight the difference so I don't think a similar demo using different HDMI cables would impossible to get going.
If you can demonstrate something is better, people will often buy it. An example of this is when people come to me looking for an iPod dock, many people want to spend around £50 or less. In many cases I show them what they could get if they spent a bit more money. Something such as the Logitech PureFi a Sony which cost £90-100. I was initially surprised how many people would happily pay the extra after a demonstration, but I suppose if you know something is better and you can afford it you are fairly likely to buy it.
None of the stores I've wandered in to, and I struggle to walk past an AV store/department without going in (much to my girlfriend's annoyance), have had a demo set up showing the difference between HDMI cables. This includes national chains, department stores, brand specific stores and specialist chains. Maybe the more expensive independant type of store would be happy to set up a demo if somebody asked them to, but I've never asked.
For the record, I'm of the "if it's well built and complies with HDMI standards it will be fine" opinion. I have yet to see any difference between HDMI cables I have used both at work and at home besides the quality of the construction. I think the reason nowhere has such a demo set up is because even less people would buy the expensive cables.
One thing that I find interesting is that as somebody who sells TV equipment and related accessories (in a national chain many of you wouldn't consider going in, but anyway...!) I have asked my superiors that if the expensive HDMI cables we are supposed to sell make a difference to picture or sound, why don't we have a simple demo in store which shows the difference?
The premium HDMI cables we make lots of money. The margin on them is very high. We would sell lots more if it were possible to demonstrate the benefits in store rather than saying "honestly, if you don't see a difference then bring it back" because many won't spend £50 rather than £5 on a cable when I have no way of showing what difference it makes. We have a demo showing identical TVs connected to the same source with composite, scart, component and HDMI to highlight the difference so I don't think a similar demo using different HDMI cables would impossible to get going.
If you can demonstrate something is better, people will often buy it. An example of this is when people come to me looking for an iPod dock, many people want to spend around £50 or less. In many cases I show them what they could get if they spent a bit more money. Something such as the Logitech PureFi a Sony which cost £90-100. I was initially surprised how many people would happily pay the extra after a demonstration, but I suppose if you know something is better and you can afford it you are fairly likely to buy it.
None of the stores I've wandered in to, and I struggle to walk past an AV store/department without going in (much to my girlfriend's annoyance), have had a demo set up showing the difference between HDMI cables. This includes national chains, department stores, brand specific stores and specialist chains. Maybe the more expensive independant type of store would be happy to set up a demo if somebody asked them to, but I've never asked.
For the record, I'm of the "if it's well built and complies with HDMI standards it will be fine" opinion. I have yet to see any difference between HDMI cables I have used both at work and at home besides the quality of the construction. I think the reason nowhere has such a demo set up is because even less people would buy the expensive cables.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
I'd say a small specialist retailer isn't really going to unbox two identical TV's worth a K or two each just to show the difference between two HDMI's, especially when they know they're going to end up losing money when they sell them on at the end of their retail life. Also, commandeering two TV's from a modest TV line up in comparison to a department store for a HDMI demo isn't really cost effective when they really need to be used in various parts of a store to demonstrate systems or Bluray players.
FrankHarveyHiFi:I'd say a small specialist retailer isn't really going to unbox two identical TV's worth a K or two each just to show the difference between two HDMI's, especially when they know they're going to end up losing money when they sell them on at the end of their retail life. Also, commandeering two TV's from a modest TV line up in comparison to a department store for a HDMI demo isn't really cost effective when they really need to be used in various parts of a store to demonstrate systems or Bluray players.the huge mark-up on expensive hdmi cables would easily cover the cost of having to sell two tvs at a slightly lower price, especially "if" the test proved that it was worth buying expensive cables
edit.. well for the big stores anyway...
edit.. well for the big stores anyway...
FrankHarveyHiFi:I'd say a small specialist retailer isn't really going to unbox two identical TV's worth a K or two each just to show the difference between two HDMI's, especially when they know they're going to end up losing money when they sell them on at the end of their retail life. Also, commandeering two TV's from a modest TV line up in comparison to a department store for a HDMI demo isn't really cost effective when they really need to be used in various parts of a store to demonstrate systems or Bluray players.
Yeah, fair point. I really only said that because I don't know whether it is the done thing or not so I didn't want to make an assumption. As I said, in our store we have a demo comparing various older cables to an HDMI. There are 4 identical TVs set up side by side which would be ideal for demonstrating HDMI cables. Large companies would definitely be in a better position to do this for the reasons you stated, but none of them do and I think there is a reason for that.
They set up the scart vs HDMI demo when HDMI was a new thing because people were unsure and it demonstrated the difference. They won't set up a similar demo with HDMI cables costing £5, £20, £50 and £100 because people would look at it and see no difference. That's what I think anyway.
Yeah, fair point. I really only said that because I don't know whether it is the done thing or not so I didn't want to make an assumption. As I said, in our store we have a demo comparing various older cables to an HDMI. There are 4 identical TVs set up side by side which would be ideal for demonstrating HDMI cables. Large companies would definitely be in a better position to do this for the reasons you stated, but none of them do and I think there is a reason for that.
They set up the scart vs HDMI demo when HDMI was a new thing because people were unsure and it demonstrated the difference. They won't set up a similar demo with HDMI cables costing £5, £20, £50 and £100 because people would look at it and see no difference. That's what I think anyway.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
But then would generate enough sales to make that worthwhile? TV's are virtually sold at cost these days, and cleared at far less. I don't think the "huge" mark up would make it worth while. Even if you could prove a difference, that's no guarantee everyone is going to buy the more expensive one.
Also, the difference between HDMI's isn't just about video, it's about audio too (after all, it's not an optical connection). Which means that both of those cables and TV's are going to need their own audio system to show that benefit too.
Also, the difference between HDMI's isn't just about video, it's about audio too (after all, it's not an optical connection). Which means that both of those cables and TV's are going to need their own audio system to show that benefit too.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
alwatson:There are 4 identical TVs set up side by side which would be ideal for demonstrating HDMI cables. Large companies would definitely be in a better position to do this for the reasons you stated, but none of them do and I think there is a reason for that. They set up the scart vs HDMI demo when HDMI was a new thing because people were unsure and it demonstrated the difference. They won't set up a similar demo with HDMI cables costing £5, £20, £50 and £100 because people would look at it and see no difference. That's what I think anyway.
We don't even have four TV's in store any more!
We don't even have four TV's in store any more!
FrankHarveyHiFi:But then would generate enough sales to make that worthwhile? TV's are virtually sold at cost these days, and cleared at far less. I don't think the "huge" mark up would make it worth while. Even if you could prove a difference, that's no guarantee everyone is going to buy the more expensive one.
Also, the difference between HDMI's isn't just about video, it's about audio too (after all, it's not an optical connection). Which means that both of those cables and TV's are going to need their own audio system to show that benefit too.but surely in the likes of curries where al has said they often have had 4 tvs setup side by side to display the differences between scart and hdmi they could just as easily demonstrate the merits (should there be any of course
) of expensive hdmi cables? it would be in their interest to do so, well, it would unless there were no differences
Also, the difference between HDMI's isn't just about video, it's about audio too (after all, it's not an optical connection). Which means that both of those cables and TV's are going to need their own audio system to show that benefit too.but surely in the likes of curries where al has said they often have had 4 tvs setup side by side to display the differences between scart and hdmi they could just as easily demonstrate the merits (should there be any of course
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi: We don't even have four TV's in store any more!
Ha, well that does put things in to perspective. The department stores/national chains are definitely the ones best placed to set something up then. It would be very easy to set up but they won't, and I think it's because there is no demonstratable difference. If they were happy to put 4 TVs side by side to compare composite, scart, component and HDMI (which is still up and running so would be easy to modify) then they have the space and resources to do such a comparison.
Audio would be much more difficult to properly show in a demonstration environment. You just can't effectively have the side by side comparison you can with video. I must admit that I've never really compared HDMI in terms of audio, only picture. I only have a stereo set up at home and we don't sell AV receivers capable of decoding HD audio etc, so I'm not really in a position to comment either way in that respect.
Ha, well that does put things in to perspective. The department stores/national chains are definitely the ones best placed to set something up then. It would be very easy to set up but they won't, and I think it's because there is no demonstratable difference. If they were happy to put 4 TVs side by side to compare composite, scart, component and HDMI (which is still up and running so would be easy to modify) then they have the space and resources to do such a comparison.
Audio would be much more difficult to properly show in a demonstration environment. You just can't effectively have the side by side comparison you can with video. I must admit that I've never really compared HDMI in terms of audio, only picture. I only have a stereo set up at home and we don't sell AV receivers capable of decoding HD audio etc, so I'm not really in a position to comment either way in that respect.
f1only
Well-known member
I find this rather amusing as at local Currys in Aylesbury they had 2 identicle 32" Samsung tv's running side by side around 2 years ago. They used 2 identicle Sony BD players using two different makes of HDMI leads, one was a top of the range lead the other was a cheap lead & there was a difference in picture quality shown, as the TV's were side by side it was very apparent. The TV with the more expensive lead was sharper & clearer, where as the other tvs picture was watchable but looked a bit washed out, a sort of flat picture, it did not jump out at you like it should as a 1080p. Yes i did ask the relevent questions about the tv's setup & they were both set the same in the menus as were the BD players.
professorhat
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi:basver:
Andrew and Professorhat, thanks!
So, a fully wired highspeed "1.3" cable would support any feature (3D, 4K etc) currently referred to as "1.4". Isn't the 1.4 statement on the leads marketing bs then and is the Chord 1.3 version for some 40 quid a bargain???
It won't do ARC.
It should do if it was certified as High Speed...
The issue is, the regulation for this certification has only recently come in, so a lot of this is unknown. For example, on some of their cables, QED now only certify cables as Standard Speed, but will tell you as an aside that the shorter cables will easily be able to handle 1080p, ARC and even 3D as QED over engineer their cables way past the needs of the certification. I'm sure this is also true of Chord.
So, for the older cables, the only true way you can tell if something will or won't do something is to try it out, but with the well known brands, because of their over-engineering on the amount of bandwidth the cable can carry, you'll find a lot of them will work fine with 1080p, ARC and 3D even though they don't carry the certification.
As always, buy from somewhere with a good returns policy so you can return it if it doesn't fit your needs or you're not happy you're getting a siginificant performance upgrade over a standard "freebie" cable.
Andrew and Professorhat, thanks!
So, a fully wired highspeed "1.3" cable would support any feature (3D, 4K etc) currently referred to as "1.4". Isn't the 1.4 statement on the leads marketing bs then and is the Chord 1.3 version for some 40 quid a bargain???
It won't do ARC.
It should do if it was certified as High Speed...
The issue is, the regulation for this certification has only recently come in, so a lot of this is unknown. For example, on some of their cables, QED now only certify cables as Standard Speed, but will tell you as an aside that the shorter cables will easily be able to handle 1080p, ARC and even 3D as QED over engineer their cables way past the needs of the certification. I'm sure this is also true of Chord.
So, for the older cables, the only true way you can tell if something will or won't do something is to try it out, but with the well known brands, because of their over-engineering on the amount of bandwidth the cable can carry, you'll find a lot of them will work fine with 1080p, ARC and 3D even though they don't carry the certification.
As always, buy from somewhere with a good returns policy so you can return it if it doesn't fit your needs or you're not happy you're getting a siginificant performance upgrade over a standard "freebie" cable.
f1only:
I find this rather amusing as at local Currys in Aylesbury they had 2 identicle 32" Samsung tv's running side by side around 2 years ago. They used 2 identicle Sony BD players using two different makes of HDMI leads, one was a top of the range lead the other was a cheap lead & there was a difference in picture quality shown, as the TV's were side by side it was very apparent. The TV with the more expensive lead was sharper & clearer, where as the other tvs picture was watchable but looked a bit washed out, a sort of flat picture, it did not jump out at you like it should as a 1080p. Yes i did ask the relevent questions about the tv's setup & they were both set the same in the menus as were the BD players.
Yeah, really? Currys cable demonstrations have always been fair, above board, genuine. Not. I wouldn't trust Currys to demonstate anything, particularly something with such a high profit margin as cables.
I have compared numerous cables in my own and other systems and can tell no audible or visual difference.
As I have said before, come on WHF prove it. Show us the difference. Let's see some scientific testing and put the subject to bed once and for all.
Most of the cable manufacturers don't try to claim that there is any increase in picture or audio quality. Why is that?
I have always maintained, spend what you are happy with and don't buy cheap. Hopefully if you buy quality cables from a proven manufacturer or supplier, you shouldn't have any issues. Providing you're not constantly unplugging/plugging HDMI cables, they should last.
I find this rather amusing as at local Currys in Aylesbury they had 2 identicle 32" Samsung tv's running side by side around 2 years ago. They used 2 identicle Sony BD players using two different makes of HDMI leads, one was a top of the range lead the other was a cheap lead & there was a difference in picture quality shown, as the TV's were side by side it was very apparent. The TV with the more expensive lead was sharper & clearer, where as the other tvs picture was watchable but looked a bit washed out, a sort of flat picture, it did not jump out at you like it should as a 1080p. Yes i did ask the relevent questions about the tv's setup & they were both set the same in the menus as were the BD players.
Yeah, really? Currys cable demonstrations have always been fair, above board, genuine. Not. I wouldn't trust Currys to demonstate anything, particularly something with such a high profit margin as cables.
I have compared numerous cables in my own and other systems and can tell no audible or visual difference.
As I have said before, come on WHF prove it. Show us the difference. Let's see some scientific testing and put the subject to bed once and for all.
Most of the cable manufacturers don't try to claim that there is any increase in picture or audio quality. Why is that?
I have always maintained, spend what you are happy with and don't buy cheap. Hopefully if you buy quality cables from a proven manufacturer or supplier, you shouldn't have any issues. Providing you're not constantly unplugging/plugging HDMI cables, they should last.
Nothing wrong with Currys for some items (Prefer mine not too hot tho') BUT - a 'salesman' tells me that when TVs arrive they simply plug them in. No adjustments are made. Surely that says all. Sorry Frank (and other excellent retailers) - they ain't all like you !
f1only
Well-known member
d4v3pum4:f1only:
I find this rather amusing as at local Currys in Aylesbury they had 2 identicle 32" Samsung tv's running side by side around 2 years ago. They used 2 identicle Sony BD players using two different makes of HDMI leads, one was a top of the range lead the other was a cheap lead & there was a difference in picture quality shown, as the TV's were side by side it was very apparent. The TV with the more expensive lead was sharper & clearer, where as the other tvs picture was watchable but looked a bit washed out, a sort of flat picture, it did not jump out at you like it should as a 1080p. Yes i did ask the relevent questions about the tv's setup & they were both set the same in the menus as were the BD players.
Yeah, really? Currys cable demonstrations have always been fair, above board, genuine. Not. I wouldn't trust Currys to demonstate anything, particularly something with such a high profit margin as cables.
I have compared numerous cables in my own and other systems and can tell no audible or visual difference.
As I have said before, come on WHF prove it. Show us the difference. Let's see some scientific testing and put the subject to bed once and for all.
Most of the cable manufacturers don't try to claim that there is any increase in picture or audio quality. Why is that?
I have always maintained, spend what you are happy with and don't buy cheap. Hopefully if you buy quality cables from a proven manufacturer or supplier, you shouldn't have any issues. Providing you're not constantly unplugging/plugging HDMI cables, they should last.
Makes no difference to me wether you believe Currys or not, as ive never purchased HDMI Cables from them. Too expensive.
I have however tried 4 different makes of HDMI cable one 2 metres in length was certified v1.3 ( BOUGHT FOR MY PS3 ) & it would'nt even show a 1080p picture on my tv so i took it back & complained it was faulty , it was replaced with another of the same brand & guess what that did not work either, both only produced only up to a 1080i picture despite the claims on the packaging. I then replaced it with another brand HDMI v1.3b only 1 metre long, which did show 1080p but had little sparklies all over the TV when a lot of Black was showing, so very distracting. The last two brands of cable i have bought have both been an improvement over each other for picture & sound, none of my cables are over 2 metres in length. According to you though they are all the same, with no differece, well all i can say is you have been lucky i havnt been. To me there is an improvement.
Lets face it at the end of the day ( the sun goes down ) if you are happy with your HDMI leads / cables & cant notice any difference then fine. I'm not telling people to buy or not to buy or giving any brand names & insisting one in particular brand is better than another, just that i noticed a difference in the ones i have used & i am happy with mine. People can spend their money how they like & preferably try before they buy to make their own informed decision.
Regards ...Paul
I find this rather amusing as at local Currys in Aylesbury they had 2 identicle 32" Samsung tv's running side by side around 2 years ago. They used 2 identicle Sony BD players using two different makes of HDMI leads, one was a top of the range lead the other was a cheap lead & there was a difference in picture quality shown, as the TV's were side by side it was very apparent. The TV with the more expensive lead was sharper & clearer, where as the other tvs picture was watchable but looked a bit washed out, a sort of flat picture, it did not jump out at you like it should as a 1080p. Yes i did ask the relevent questions about the tv's setup & they were both set the same in the menus as were the BD players.
Yeah, really? Currys cable demonstrations have always been fair, above board, genuine. Not. I wouldn't trust Currys to demonstate anything, particularly something with such a high profit margin as cables.
I have compared numerous cables in my own and other systems and can tell no audible or visual difference.
As I have said before, come on WHF prove it. Show us the difference. Let's see some scientific testing and put the subject to bed once and for all.
Most of the cable manufacturers don't try to claim that there is any increase in picture or audio quality. Why is that?
I have always maintained, spend what you are happy with and don't buy cheap. Hopefully if you buy quality cables from a proven manufacturer or supplier, you shouldn't have any issues. Providing you're not constantly unplugging/plugging HDMI cables, they should last.
Makes no difference to me wether you believe Currys or not, as ive never purchased HDMI Cables from them. Too expensive.
I have however tried 4 different makes of HDMI cable one 2 metres in length was certified v1.3 ( BOUGHT FOR MY PS3 ) & it would'nt even show a 1080p picture on my tv so i took it back & complained it was faulty , it was replaced with another of the same brand & guess what that did not work either, both only produced only up to a 1080i picture despite the claims on the packaging. I then replaced it with another brand HDMI v1.3b only 1 metre long, which did show 1080p but had little sparklies all over the TV when a lot of Black was showing, so very distracting. The last two brands of cable i have bought have both been an improvement over each other for picture & sound, none of my cables are over 2 metres in length. According to you though they are all the same, with no differece, well all i can say is you have been lucky i havnt been. To me there is an improvement.
Lets face it at the end of the day ( the sun goes down ) if you are happy with your HDMI leads / cables & cant notice any difference then fine. I'm not telling people to buy or not to buy or giving any brand names & insisting one in particular brand is better than another, just that i noticed a difference in the ones i have used & i am happy with mine. People can spend their money how they like & preferably try before they buy to make their own informed decision.
Regards ...Paul
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