Harbeth vs IPL

[FennerMachine]

Harbeth M30.1
vs
IPL Acoustics SM2 MKII

Which one?

Most natural midrange
Best bass extension
Smoothest treble
Best overall sound quality
Best value for money (Harbeth worth double?)

Discuss.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's a very select few who will have heard those back to back.

 

[plastic penguin]

Think you'll need to blag a pair from Colin and get a home dem of Harbeths.

I'm very sceptical of kit speakers. I'm sure they are very good - but better than established dedicated speaker manufacturers? Bloody hope not, or the hi-fi world would be a total con.

 

[iQ Speakers]

@FM sent you PM more than welcome to borrow a pair.

PP You better believe it, that's one question I can categorically and unequivocally answer yes they are. Problem is it takes a certain kind to bother or indeed belive to come and listen. Those that do usually buy and save a fortune. These are my latest pair finished today ready to go out.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Yep the tweeter used in these S2 are used in Monitor Audio PL300 at £6500. The S2 are £1399

 

[tonky]

All I can say is that the individual components in a kit speaker (bass/mid and treble units in particular) are (in some cases) used in dedicated speakers that are 2 or 3 times the price of a kit speaker. It is hard to get the professional veneered finish of a dedicated speaker manufacturer (DSM) on a kit though. Also, a DSM has to pay for a manufacturing base, labour,energy and transport etc. So maybe there are considerable savings to be had from a kit.

The IPL kits seem excellent value for money component wise and a lot of these kits have a design based on established DSM principles.

I suppose you pays your money etc

cheers tonky

 

[plastic penguin]

@FM sent you PM more than welcome to borrow a pair.

PP You better believe it, that's one question I can categorically and unequivocally answer yes they are. Problem is it takes a certain kind to bother or indeed belive to come and listen. Those that do usually buy and save a fortune. These are my latest pair finished today ready to go out.

No disrespect to you or your business, Colin but...

Well, all I can say is the other established speaker manufacturers (PMC, Spendor, B&W, Harbeth, Dynaudio...) had better shut up shop.

These brands spend millions (plus) a year on R&D, and let's face it, IPL are the Airfix of the speaker world.

Whenb I recently said to Cno that one of the best amp/speaker combos I've heard was Naim and PMC i series, he replied "that's a big claim". IMO not as big as IPL bettering established names that have over 40 years experience in the trade.

Anyway, I did say to the OP ask Colin for a dem pair and he can compare them to Harbeth and make his own mind up.

 

[Freddy58]

These brands spend millions (plus) a year on R&D,

That's as maybe, but do they actually produce a better sounding speaker?

 

[plastic penguin]

These brands spend millions (plus) a year on R&D,

That's as maybe, but do they actually produce a better sounding speaker?

You hope that millions not just spent on different materials for cones but the best cabinet materials, padding, bracing.

The perfect example was my old MA RS6s. For my ears they were the best speaker in the Silver range, yet that was the third or fourth generation of the Silver range floorstander. The subsequent RX range was better in some respects (tonal mainly) but lacked that sparkle that made the RS range special.

back onto whether IPLs are really better to live with or not, the best example was EB Acoustics. However, even that company had built speakers since at least the late 90s under the name of Arcaydis. I have WHFI mags going back to 2004 with reviews of their speakers. So they had at least 20 years of using different drivers, cabinet materials/weights to get the EB brand absolutely right.

 

[MajorFubar]

One of the main factors that pushes up the price of mainstream brands compared to boutique small manufacturers like IQ and EB Acoustics (RIP) is the cost and logistics of setting up and maintaining an international manufacturing and distribution chain capable of churning out tens of thousands of products a year to precise deliverables like quantities, exact output costs, budgets and deadlines. Maybe it's absolutely true that the likes of Richard and Colin can nail together a pair of speakers 'in their shed'* for £2k that lives up to the performance of something by PMC, Spendor, B&W, Harbeth, Dynaudio at three times the price, but the difference is they don't have to make/distribute a thousand pairs a week to 192 countries with a couple of thousand staff on the production lines and in offices. That's your difference and that's where the cost comes in.

*metaphorically speaking as opposed to a factory production line, clearly no disrespect intended or inferred

 

[plastic penguin]

One of the main factors that pushes up the price of mainstream brands compared to boutique small manufacturers like IQ and EB Acoustics (RIP) is the cost and logistics of setting up and maintaining an international manufacturing and distribution chain capable of churning out tens of thousands of products a year to precise deliverables like quantities, exact output costs, budgets and deadlines. Maybe it's absolutely true that the likes of Richard and Colin can nail together a pair of speakers 'in their shed'* for £2k that lives up to the performance of something by PMC, Spendor, B&W, Harbeth, Dynaudio at three times the price, but the difference is they don't have to make/distribute a thousand pairs a week to 192 countries with a couple of thousand staff on the production lines and in offices. That's your difference and that's where the cost comes in.

*metaphorically speaking as opposed to a factory production line, clearly no disrespect intended or inferred

Absolutely. But was price mentioned by me?

I understand lower overheads = keener prices. As the OP has asked whether IPL or Harbeth, he would need to do a direct comparison.

Like Colin I run a small business for the last 4 years, so I know how difficult it is to get across your product, but what he needs to do is measure where in this particular market place and who is the direct competition.

Can stock driver units do that and can Boggit make a success in such a short period? Unlikely. If he can he'll be ripping up all the rule books. Probably unlike any other hi-fi component, speaker making is a precise process.

 

[iQ Speakers]

I got up especially to write a detailed answer and lost the lot*dash1*

 

[plastic penguin]

Yep the tweeter used in these S2 are used in Monitor Audio PL300 at £6500. The S2 are £1399

The ribbon tweeter is a Monitor Audio in-house affair - identical to the ones used in the GX50. So how did IPL get hold of genuine ribbons? It's like me saying the engine in my Alfa is the same as the (saloon car)racing version. Actually it isn't. Apart from the smaller size of my engine, the block is a GM-designed engine, whereas the racing version is Alfa/FIAT block and bottom end.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm sure they are very good. If they are genuinely better than PMC and other big names I'll give up my business and sell these kits.

 

[Al ears]

One of the main factors that pushes up the price of mainstream brands compared to boutique small manufacturers like IQ and EB Acoustics (RIP) is the cost and logistics of setting up and maintaining an international manufacturing and distribution chain capable of churning out tens of thousands of products a year to precise deliverables like quantities, exact output costs, budgets and deadlines. Maybe it's absolutely true that the likes of Richard and Colin can nail together a pair of speakers 'in their shed'* for £2k that lives up to the performance of something by PMC, Spendor, B&W, Harbeth, Dynaudio at three times the price, but the difference is they don't have to make/distribute a thousand pairs a week to 192 countries with a couple of thousand staff on the production lines and in offices. That's your difference and that's where the cost comes in.

*metaphorically speaking as opposed to a factory production line, clearly no disrespect intended or inferred

+1

Exactly. This inability to handle popularity / demand led to the demise of EB Acoustics (doesn't make them a bad speaker though, exactly the opposite in fact).

I can see the point regards large established players but they could, if they wanted do the same, send out an established speaker, say PMC Twenty 22 in a kit form at a lower price. They will not, however, because in the great scheme of things putting a pseaker together costs peanuts.

 

[chebby]

I would take the Harbeth over the IQ because the owner has fettled every crossover design himself and helped develop a unique driver cone material. He is the custodian of one one the few remaining companies keeping the 'legacy' of the BBC Monitor (and Dudley Harwood) alive for both domestic and professional customers (including the BBC).

To a certain extent a lot of us 'buy into' a (hi)story and/or a philosophy when we make such choices and IQ doesn't offer this.

I also don't believe more than a very small handful of UK loudspeaker makers have ever spent 'millions' on R&D (especially not every year and certainly not Harbeth). B&W maybe - but not on the sort of boxes we discussing where a lot of the fundamentals were already researched decades before. (Especially by the BBC!)

 

[drummerman]

@FM sent you PM more than welcome to borrow a pair.

PP You better believe it, that's one question I can categorically and unequivocally answer yes they are. Problem is it takes a certain kind to bother or indeed belive to come and listen. Those that do usually buy and save a fortune. These are my latest pair finished today ready to go out.

They look fantastic if I may say so.

On the other hand, re-sell values of kit speakers are probably way lower proportionally than well known high/er end brands ... ? - You may end up loosing more despite the lower initial cost.

I may be wrong.

Few people buy with the intention to re-sell but it inevitably happens a lot.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Chebby your right about Harbeth they are superb, iQ has know history but IPL have 30 years and a small band of people buy into that brand philosophy. As I said I dont want to or can not sell hundreds. As for the millions no speaker manfactures does, but i just run with that as a response.

Cheers DM, as for resale your right, but im hoping that the iQ badge will show they have been well made. I have seen some appalingly made IPL's for sale on Ebay makes me laugh and cry.

 

[iQ Speakers]

 

[drummerman]

I suppose one way of pepping up s/h prices and distinguishing iQ made speakers would be to perhaps offer a buy-back scheme if owners upgrade to other models in the range.

Similar with the Son-of-Abraham but perhaps less necessary?

I don't know if thats feasible?

 

[chebby]

Going by the shape of the little heatsinks especially, it looks like Quad's new 'S' series ribbon tweeters (Fountek NeoCD 3.0 with a bespoke rectangular mounting plate?) ...

http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/product.php?cid=8

 

[iQ Speakers]

Im not sure on the Quad certainly looks simular, but the ribbon in question is the Foubtek CD3, MA dont even disguise it on the PL300!

DM thought about it, and running a forum with a sales section.

 

[stevebrock]

I think if you saw the mark up on speakers from the top guys your jaw would drop to the floor.

Maybe do a bit of researching into ART Speakers eh and all will become apparent.

 

[MajorFubar]

Absolutely. But was price mentioned by me?

No not at all, and I didn't especially intend to disagree with anything you said (hence i didn't quote), I just mentioned it because it's factors that many people don't consider.

 

[FennerMachine]

Arranged a home demo of IPL SM2 speakers.
I'll let you all know what I think.
Will try do demo Harbeth as well depending on how IPL demo goes.

 

[SteveR750]

@FM sent you PM more than welcome to borrow a pair.?

PP You better believe it, that's one question I can categorically and unequivocally answer yes they are. Problem is it takes a certain kind to bother or indeed belive to come and listen. Those that do usually buy and save a fortune. These are my latest pair finished today ready to go out.?

?

No disrespect to you or your business, Colin but...

Well, all I can say is the other established speaker manufacturers (PMC, Spendor, B&W, Harbeth, Dynaudio...) had better shut up shop.

These brands spend millions (plus) a year on R&D, and let's face it, IPL are the Airfix of the speaker world.

Whenb I recently said to Cno that one of the best amp/speaker combos I've heard was Naim and PMC i series, he replied "that's a big claim". IMO not as big as IPL bettering established names that have over 40 years experience in the trade.

Anyway, I did say to the OP ask Colin for a dem pair and he can compare them to Harbeth and make his own mind up.

In my experience, I think you are seriously underestimating these speakers. The floorstanders Colin brought to my house were comparable to proacs at more than double the price.