For the love of God!

[MrReaper182]

For The Love Of God

Now there is a man who can play his axe.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Can we stop talking about cables on here!

A lot of the guys and gals on this forum will already know this, but cables, amps, CD players and DAC's - None of them make a great deal of difference to sound quality. So why oh why is there such an obsession with the "lies" that cable manufacturers/lovers tell?

Amps - They amplify an electrical signal and that is all they do. As long as there is enough bang to drive their partnered loudspeaker's buck, and the basics have been executed correctly by the amp manufacture, then the signal will be amplified truthfully.

CD Player - Transports are pretty much ubiquitous and the same units are used by most manufacturers from £100 to £5000. How can that be?! All it does is extract the info and that job is done by the ubiquitous transport which cost £20. Where is the extra value?

The DAC chip has reached a level of performance well beyond that required for audio decoding. 24bit/192K DAC's cost less than £10 each yet "high end" manufacturers using these very same chips will charge you many £1000's for owning one. Sounds just like buying a £10 cable for £1000's to me!

So why do we spend so much on so little? We do it because we want to, because we can, and because we don't want to believe that the above is true. Unfortunately it is true so let's drop the cable hang up shall we?

Loudspeakers are the ONLY thing worth going up the chain for. They DO make a real difference. Oh, and turntables as well. Mustn't forget them.

and why register in a Forum from a mag that is all about reviewing, amps, cables, DACs, CD players?

I think deep inside Sir you are a believer...

 

[MrReaper182]

No. It is a free country and as a free country I'll post what I like and if you don't like well you don't have to read or responsed to the post. Amplifiers do make a difference when paired with the right speakers and good CD players can make a slight difference. If you don't like what people are talking about on here then close the post in your tab and read something you do like, It is what I do. If people want to have cable debates that is their right (and no I do not read them). Stop telling people what they can and can not post on here.

crikey, I'm off! You guys are welcome to your little troll pit.

Stop being so childish and grow up.

 

[Alec]

Mind you, I thnk nearly all cable threads contain multiple isntances of contravention of House Rule 13.

Most other threads probably do, too.

Down with threads!

 

[Freddy58]

I think we've 'done' cables!

 

[spiny norman]

cables, amps, CD players and DAC's - None of them make a great deal of difference to sound quality

Discuss.

 

[John Duncan]

cables, amps, CD players and DAC's - None of them make a great deal of difference to sound quality

Discuss.

No I think he wants us not to.

 

[Gazzip]

Gazzip, if you really believe what you have written why have you spent a small fortune on Bryston equipment and why on earth have you got expensive Nordost and Clearaudio cables?

I'm not having a go, but I do need some help understanding this.

The Bryston mono's are a recent purchase. I have bought them because I have PMC MB2SE's on order which need that level of amplification to drive them. They also offer a 20 year warranty which sealed the deal for me.

The CD Player and DAC were second hand, half price, both with 4 years of warranty remaining, and they matched my amp at the time visually which was a BP26 and a 4BSST2.

The Clearaudio Cable was targeted at bass suppression and consequentially bringing some high end back to my system following the introduction of valves to my pre-amp stage.

The Nordost cables were a mistake and a complete waste of money. Talked in to them by a dealer I'm afraid to admit.

 

[Ajani]

cables, amps, CD players and DAC's - None of them make a great deal of difference to sound quality. So why oh why is there such an obsession with the "lies" that cable manufacturers/lovers tell?

The reason for the obsession is simple: many (possibly most) audiophiles don't share your belief that those items don't make a great deal of difference.

While I pretty much agree with your point of view, I don't believe it's our place to try and force others to agree. How do I tell someone who believes that XYZ ultra expensive cables have lifted a veil that was preventing his system from reaching sonic euphoria, that cables don't make much diiference? Do I go the typical arrogant (and frankly silly) route of telling him that he is just imagining the difference? What reaction do I really expect to get by telling him that? Nothing positive can come from that discussion (or more likely, argument).

We're all free to have our opinions and to post them on this forum (once they don't violate any house rules).

 

[spiny norman]

No I think he wants us not to.

Then why start another thread?

 

[spiny norman]

The Clearaudio Cable was targeted at bass suppression and consequentially bringing some high end back to my system following the introduction of valves to my pre-amp stage.

So cables make a difference? Your witness, Mr TrevC...

 

[Vladimir]

Aside from THD and SPL there is no difference in sound quality between speakers.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

The Clearaudio Cable was targeted at bass suppression and consequentially bringing some high end back to my system following the introduction of valves to my pre-amp stage.

So cables make a difference? Your witness, Mr TrevC...

like i've said, a believer deep inside...

 

[Vladimir]

No. It is a free country and as a free country I'll post what I like and if you don't like well you don't have to read or responsed to the post. Amplifiers do make a difference when paired with the right speakers and good CD players can make a slight difference. If you don't like what people are talking about on here then close the post in your tab and read something you do like, It is what I do. If people want to have cable debates that is their right (and no I do not read them). Stop telling people what they can and can not post on here.

crikey, I'm off! You guys are welcome to your little troll pit.

Stop being so childish and grow up.

We all know he's an old git with a blankey and not Batman. Stop spoiling the fun and focus on the objects of (non)discussion.

Thank you.

The Syndicate

 

[hifikrazy]

T

While I pretty much agree with your point of view, I don't believe it's our place to try and force others to agree. How do I tell someone who believes that XYZ ultra expensive cables have lifted a veil that was preventing his system from reaching sonic euphoria, that cables don't make much diiference? Do I go the typical arrogant (and frankly silly) route of telling him that he is just imagining the difference? What reaction do I really expect to get by telling him that? Nothing positive can come from that discussion (or more likely, argument).

This is all I wish for. I'm quite happy for the foo fighters not to agree with those who think cables are an important part of the chain, but telling them that they are imagining the difference in the typical arrogant way is certainly not the way to go. Same with the snide remarks like clueless, foo alert, etc etc. I know that I've been dishing out snide remarks of my own, but it's only in response to that being dished out by the other team.

 

[jjbomber]

Damn, I thought it said ''For The Love Of Golf''.

I should have gone to Specsavers.

 

[jaxwired]

Gazzip, if you really believe what you have written why have you spent a small fortune on Bryston equipment and why on earth have you got expensive Nordost and Clearaudio cables?

I'm not having a go, but I do need some help understanding this.

The Bryston mono's are a recent purchase. I have bought them because I have PMC MB2SE's on order which need that level of amplification to drive them.

That's comical. And why exactly do the MB2s "require" 600 w/ch? They have decent sensitivity at 89db. 300w/ch just wouldn't drive them? A bit of do as I say, not as I do going on here. If you really believe your original post then your wasting an enormous amount of money on your existing equipment. It could be replaced for a tenth of the cost with zero loss in sound quality (according to you).

 

[Al ears]

Brilliant post!

Do you mind if I paraphrase?

"I've decided I know best, can people stop disagreeing with me by posting stuff I disagree with"

Yep, that'll defintely work

I think you'll find this is a forum so people can more or less post what they want, whether you agree or not

Yep, that'll stir it up a bit.

You can talk all you like about components and rooms and speakers ........ but if you don't have those little bits of wire to join them all up then you are EDITED!

Therefore I declare, henceforth, cable discussions are allowed.

I rest my case m'lud.

 

[Al ears]

Damn, I thought it said ''For The Love Of Golf''.

I should have gone to Specsavers.

Shurely that should have read Fore! ........

 

[Broner]

Leave cable lovers alone!!!

 

[CnoEvil]

There was a young fellow called Abel

Who couldn't afford decent cable

So he went to Rick's shop

Where it's two pounds a pop

His system now breaths through its navel. :cheer:

 

[lindsayt]

Aside from THD and SPL there is no difference in sound quality between speakers.

And frequency response between 20hz and 20khz - which varies enormously between different speakers when compared to the frequency response differences of digital sources, amp and cables.

And dispersion varies significantly between speakers.

Which therefore leads onto differing room interactions.

And there's efficiency / impedance / capacitance / inductance differences, leading to how different amplifiers deal with different speaker loads.

And there's differences in how speakers deal with transients at different frequencies, either suppressing the transient for a subjective lack of dynamics or extending the transient for transient bloom.

Let's also not forget that THD, especially at bass frequencies at higher volumes will be several times higher in most speakers than from the source, non-clipping amp, cables combined.

 

[lindsayt]

Cable discussions on hi-fi forums are an example of Parkinson's Law of Triviality.

"Parkinson's law of triviality, also known as bikeshedding or the bicycle-shed example, is C. Northcote Parkinson's 1957 argument that organizations give disproportionate weight to trivial issues."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law_of_triviality

 

[Crocodile]

Amps - They amplify an electrical signal and that is all they do. As long as there is enough bang to drive their partnered loudspeaker's buck, and the basics have been executed correctly by the amp manufacture, then the signal will be amplified truthfully.

I didn't say that components don't have a house sound.

I think you'll find you did. :?

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Leave cable lovers alone!!!

now i know what we are talking about!

Cables, it's her name, right?