FOR TEAM RE:ONKYO TX NR 818 REVIEW.

[Anonymous]

XT32 is pretty in depth if you take time to learn more about it. It is far more complex than many people give it credit for. Sadly a lot of people just cannot be bothered to make the effort to get the best out of it. Which is probably why there are so many negative opinions.

Also yes. Many people are wrong. But not for the reasons that they are led to believe.

 

[Anonymous]

I was referring to the WHF review. The 818 is not powerful.

Seems like a very OTT package to test on a £1k AVR. But it sounds about right for WHF review. :roll:

 

[Son_of_SJ]

SwimmyVision? OMDB!

I had to put both of these new (at least to me) terms into google to find out what they meant ...... Actually my first thought was that the second term meant "Oh my dear boy" in a Noel Coward type of way, but apparently it means "Over my dead body". And to return to your sub-topic, I also don't seem to get on with 3D (although watching Prometheus at the IMAX in passive 3D was not too painful an experience). Since getting my Samsung TV in March I have not even taken its two pairs of 3D glasses out of their box. But now, back to the main topic of the Onkyo TX-NR818, about which I know exceedingly little.

 

[bigboss]

I was referring to the WHF review. The 818 is not powerful.

Seems like a very OTT package to test on a £1k AVR. But it sounds about right for WHF review. :roll:

Have you got an agenda against WHF? Or Onkyo? Can you post some links regarding the receiver not driving 4 ohm speakers properly?

 

[Anonymous]

Have you got an agenda against WHF? Or Onkyo? Can you post some links regarding the receiver not driving 4 ohm speakers properly?

I have no agenda at all. Unless pointing out confusing/incorrect/misleading reviews/comments/information is classed as having an agenda. I am posting from my own experience, the experiences of a couple of people I know, and also seeing posts/comments of other peoples experiences with the 3008/3009/5008/5009. These models do not drive 4 ohms speakers very well. The 818 is not going to either. In reality with all channels driven the 818 will be outputting around half of the stated power mentioned in the review. But not enough facts tend to be stated by manufacturers or reviewers on such details.

I do not think links to other forums would be appreciated but they are not that difficult to find.

 

[bigboss]

I'm sure you mean well when pointing out the issue with 4 ohm speakers. But I would suggest you tone down a bit. There's no point in attacking others to make yourself heard. Calling others "old man" & ridiculing the testing process & the review itself is certainly not civil. Different people have different tastes, & if the reviewers found this receiver to be musical, so be it. Even I consider Onkyos to be musical. What's wrong with that?

By the way, you are allowed to post links to other forums as well, as long as there is no insult to WHF or its staff. I haven't found anything specific to this AV receiver having problems with 4 ohm speakers, & will appreciate a link explaining the same. No point in slating this receiver on the basis of other receivers made by the manufacturer. This is mere guesswork. Which speakers have you tried this receiver with?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sure you mean well when pointing out the issue with 4 ohm speakers. But I would suggest you tone down a bit. There's no point in attacking others to make yourself heard. Calling others "old man" & ridiculing the testing process & the review itself is certainly not civil. Different people have different tastes, & if the reviewers found this receiver to be musical, so be it. Even I consider Onkyos to be musical. What's wrong with that?

By the way, you are allowed to post links to other forums as well, as long as there is no insult to WHF or its staff. I haven't found anything specific to this AV receiver having problems with 4 ohm speakers, & will appreciate a link explaining the same. No point in slating this receiver on the basis of other receivers made by the manufacturer. This is mere guesswork. Which speakers have you tried this receiver with?

Old chap/old man? What is the difference? Andrew can call me old chap but I call him old man and I have an attitude problem? If you feel that stating that Onkyo an AVR is not so good with harder to drive 4 ohm speakers is slating it then I would suggest that it is you who needs to tone down a bit. I own Onkyo myself and I am very much enjoying it for both movies and music. But powerful it is not. Are you suggesting that Onkyo have put better Amps in the 818 than the 3008/3009/5008/5009? They have not. There is no need for guesswork. Put more effort into looking if you really want to know more. There are posts on both AVF and AVS.

 

[bigboss]

I'm sure you mean well when pointing out the issue with 4 ohm speakers. But I would suggest you tone down a bit. There's no point in attacking others to make yourself heard. Calling others "old man" & ridiculing the testing process & the review itself is certainly not civil. Different people have different tastes, & if the reviewers found this receiver to be musical, so be it. Even I consider Onkyos to be musical. What's wrong with that?

By the way, you are allowed to post links to other forums as well, as long as there is no insult to WHF or its staff. I haven't found anything specific to this AV receiver having problems with 4 ohm speakers, & will appreciate a link explaining the same. No point in slating this receiver on the basis of other receivers made by the manufacturer. This is mere guesswork. Which speakers have you tried this receiver with?

Old chap/old man? What is the difference? Andrew can call me old chap but I call him old man and I have an attitude problem? If you feel that stating that Onkyo an AVR is not so good with harder to drive 4 ohm speakers is slating it then I would suggest that it is you who needs to tone down a bit. I own Onkyo myself and I am very much enjoying it for both movies and music. But powerful it is not. Are you suggesting that Onkyo have put better Amps in the 818 than the 3008/3009/5008/5009? They have not. There is no need for guesswork. Put more effort into looking if you really want to know more. There are posts on both AVF and AVS.

Nope, can't find any post related to the 818. No need to argue without any proof. Please post some links.

The only link I found is this, in which Onkyo says there's no problem driving 4 ohm speakers, as long as all the speakers are 4 ohms:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412714/onkyo-tx-nr818-official-owners-thread-discussion/540

 

[Anonymous]

Nope, can't find any post related to the 818. No need to argue without any proof. Please post some links.

The only link I found is this, in which Onkyo says there's no problem driving 4 ohm speakers, as long as all the speakers are 4 ohms:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412714/onkyo-tx-nr818-official-owners-thread-discussion/540

There is a big difference between a speaker making some noise and a speaker being driven properly. But if you feel you have found proof that everyone is fine then that is awesome. No one with difficult to drive 4 ohm speakers should worry and anyone and everyone can buy an 818 safe in the knowledge that you have given it your seal of approval. I imagine that you can also confirm that the 818 is the perfect match for expensive speaker/sub packages like the one WHF decided to test it with. I am not sure of the exact amount of the package but it is clearly way beyond the scope of what will be paired with it in the real world. But hey.. if the 818 is so powerful and performed so well then I guess there is no point in anyone spending over £1k on an AVR with any speaker package right? So ignore my posts as I am obviously a complete idiot.

Or maybe I do have a legitimate point and you are just just trying to appear to be clever because you have so many posts and feel like everyone should bow down before you and respect everything you say. I can guarantee you that I could make the 818 shut down like the 3008/3009/5008/5009 does with a particular speaker package and not at a particulary over the top volume level. But as you own a Yamaha 1900 and Monitor Audio Radius speakers (which are very easy to drive) you would not really have experienced it for yourself.

I guess people can make their own minds up on who is right and who is wrong.

 

[bigboss]

I'm still waiting for you to post some links specifically related to the 818 having trouble driving 4 ohm speakers. You may have heard other receivers in the Onkyo range, but not the 818. So your "guarantee" holds no value here. Google search only brings me to this thread, making only you who's claiming this that I have found.

Seriously, post some links to back up your claim. Just shouting from the top of a building doesn't necessarily make a statement true.

It is a well known fact on this forum that we always advise to demo products before purchase. There's something known as system synergy. You cannot simply purchase the best buy winning speaker & receiver & expect them to give the best performance. I hated the Pioneer with my speakers despite it getting 5 stars from most reviews. So I went for the Yamaha. Same goes with Onkyo. So what are you getting frustrated about?

 

[sound10]

Hi, I had the opportunity to compare the Onkyo 818 Receiver with the Marantz PM6004/CD6004 Combo both hooked upto the Monitor Audio BX5's and imho the Onkyo 818 sounded really poor with music when compared to the Marantz. The Onkyo was tested in pure direct mode. To be honest I was not expecting such a massive difference after all the Marantz is a budget HiFi system, but to my ears the Marantz was in a completely different league.

However I also feel on the flip side that perhaps the Onkyo was not set up properly. Reason being that I demoed the Onkyo 809 earlier this year and thought it sounded pretty good with music ????

 

[Anonymous]

I'm still waiting for you to post some links specifically related to the 818 having trouble driving 4 ohm speakers. You may have heard other receivers in the Onkyo range, but not the 818. So your "guarantee" holds no value here. Google search only brings me to this thread, making only you who's claiming this that I have found.

Seriously, post some links to back up your claim. Just shouting from the top of a building doesn't necessarily make a statement true.

It is a well known fact on this forum that we always advise to demo products before purchase. There's something known as system synergy. You cannot simply purchase the best buy winning speaker & receiver & expect them to give the best performance. I hated the Pioneer with my speakers despite it getting 5 stars from most reviews. So I went for the Yamaha. Same goes with Onkyo. So what are you getting frustrated about?

But yet again... do you really expect the 818 to have better amplification than the 3008/3009/5008/5009? Seriously!!!! :roll:

The only thing that frustrates me are people who feel the need to argue about things they have no experience of.

 

[simonlewis]

capthowdy, my onkyo 606 drives my four ohm speakers just fine, i cannot believe an onkyo 818 cannot drive 4 ohm speakers, so unless you can prove it, i can only believe that you are trying to wind everybody up by telling lies.

 

[bigboss]

Hi, I had the opportunity to compare the Onkyo 818 Receiver with the Marantz PM6004/CD6004 Combo both hooked upto the Monitor Audio BX5's and imho the Onkyo 818 sounded really poor with music when compared to the Marantz. The Onkyo was tested in pure direct mode. To be honest I was not expecting such a massive difference after all the Marantz is a budget HiFi system, but to my ears the Marantz was in a completely different league.

However I also feel on the flip side that perhaps the Onkyo was not set up properly. Reason being that I demoed the Onkyo 809 earlier this year and thought it sounded pretty good with music ????

Of course, an AV receiver is no match to a dedicated stereo amplifier. This was my experience at the Big Question feature at WHF where the budget was superior to some high end AV receivers.

 

[bigboss]

But yet again... do you really expect the 818 to have better amplification than the 3008/3009/5008/5009? Seriously!!!! :roll:

The only thing that frustrates me are people who feel the need to argue about things they have no experience of.

As per simonlewis' post above, not all Onkyos are same. Demo the 818 specifically & get back to us with your experience. Don't relate it to other Onkyos.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The Onkyo 818 is a THX Select2 receiver, which means it will reach 105dB peaks in a given room size (2000ft3). THX Ultra receivers will reproduce 105dB for a period of 3 continuous hours (3000ft3 area).

From experience, I know that receivers at the price point of the 818 won't properly drive and maintain control of satellite (bass limited) speakers like the Miller & Kreisel S150's, which are a 4ohm rating. The cheapest receiver I've found to do this is the Pioneer SCLX83 and SCLX85. I doubt very much Onkyo have been able to replace an already competitive £1k receiver with the higher current amplification of the 3009, AND include Audyssey's XT32.

I'm not belittling the 818 though as its a cracking product for the money, and to include XT32 at this price point elevates it above much of the competition with ease. But we have to be realistic about it's ultimate abilities. It's a £1k receiver, which is likely to be used with lifestyle sub/sat packages, and, in my opinion, is ideal for the likes of Monitor Audio's Bronze AV packages, and KEF's Q series AV packages.

 

[Anonymous]

capthowdy, my onkyo 606 drives my four ohm speakers just fine, i cannot believe an onkyo 818 cannot drive 4 ohm speakers, so unless you can prove it, i can only believe that you are trying to wind everybody up by telling lies.

Again... there is a huge difference between speakers making a noise and being driven properly. I have owned a few of the higher Onkyo models and none of them used with my 4 ohm speakers has given anywhere near the results that I now get from using a power amp. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE EXPERIENCED THE SAME. The 818 does not have better amplification than the 3008/3009/5008/5009 and will therefore suffer from the same limitations. Sorry if that upsets anyone but that is the truth of the situation. I have no reason to lie about anything. I am just pointing out that Onkyo AVRs are not powerful.

Just one example:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/audio-processors-power-amps/1621056-thinking-about-adding-power-amp.html

If you make some effort to search you will find more.

 

[Anonymous]

capthowdy, my onkyo 606 drives my four ohm speakers just fine, i cannot believe an onkyo 818 cannot drive 4 ohm speakers, so unless you can prove it, i can only believe that you are trying to wind everybody up by telling lies.

Again... there is a huge difference between speakers making a noise and being driven properly. I have owned a few of the higher Onkyo models and none of them used with my 4 ohm speakers has given anywhere near the results that I now get from using a power amp. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE EXPERIENCED THE SAME. The 818 does not have better amplification than the 3008/3009/5008/5009 and will therefore suffer from the same limitations. Sorry if that upsets anyone but that is the truth of the situation. I have no reason to lie about anything. I am just pointing out that Onkyo AVRs are not powerful.

Just one example:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/audio-processors-power-amps/1621056-thinking-about-adding-power-amp.html

If you make some effort to search you will find more.

 

[bigboss]

The Onkyo 818 is a THX Select2 receiver, which means it will reach 105dB peaks in a given room size (2000ft3). THX Ultra receivers will reproduce 105dB for a period of 3 continuous hours (3000ft3 area).

From experience, I know that receivers at the price point of the 818 won't properly drive and maintain control of satellite (bass limited) speakers like the Miller & Kreisel S150's, which are a 4ohm rating. The cheapest receiver I've found to do this is the Pioneer SCLX83 and SCLX85. I doubt very much Onkyo have been able to replace an already competitive £1k receiver with the higher current amplification of the 3009, AND include Audyssey's XT32.

I'm not belittling the 818 though as its a cracking product for the money, and to include XT32 at this price point elevates it above much of the competition with ease. But we have to be realistic about it's ultimate abilities. It's a £1k receiver, which is likely to be used with lifestyle sub/sat packages, and, in my opinion, is ideal for the likes of Monitor Audio's Bronze AV packages, and KEF's Q series AV packages.

Thanks for bringing some sense here! :clap:

So at the price point of the 818, none of the receivers are capable of driving 4 ohm speakers adequately & not just the Onkyo?

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for bringing some sense here! :clap:

So at the price point of the 818, none of the receivers are capable of driving 4 ohm speakers adequately & not just the Onkyo?

So someone else says it and it is fine. Right. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

I have nothing against Onkyo or the 818. Just some of the claims by some people about it.

 

[bigboss]

Thanks for bringing some sense here! :clap:

So at the price point of the 818, none of the receivers are capable of driving 4 ohm speakers adequately & not just the Onkyo?

So someone else says it and it is fine. Right. :roll:

No, read properly. This is from someone who has actually heard the 818. Also, your posts made it appear that Onkyo specifically has a problem driving 4 ohm speakers. David's post says otherwise. The cheapest receiver that can drive them properly is not even in the budget range of the 818.

 

[Frank Harvey]

So at the price point of the 818, none of the receivers are capable of driving 4 ohm speakers adequately & not just the Onkyo?

Objectively, you can rig up the receiver in question with some THX AV speakers and turn it up to Reference level for three hours - you'll soon find out if the ultimate abilities of the receiver are good enough and up to the job. Many manufacturers will give 4ohm power ratings for receivers and amplifiers, whether or not they can actually drive them properly or not. I've seen one box mini systems as well as big standard hi-fi amplifiers with 4ohm power ratings in their specs - in reality, they'd struggle very early on.

At average volumes, and with a high-ish efficiency speaker, a budget amp will probably sound fine on the face of it, but once the going gets tough, it'll soon show signs of strain or lack of control. I remember the good old B&W DM601's were perfect for demonstrating this - if they sounded bassy, soft, dull, and lacking definition, the amp wasn't up to the job - put on a more stable amplifier that could deal with 4ohm speakers, and suddenly you had a well defined, punchy sounding speaker that was head and shoulders above anything else.

I think part of the problem is that more people have heard (or own) speakers that aren't being driven properly than people who have heard (or own) speakers being driven properly.

To answer your question, in my opinion, there are no £1k AV receivers that can properly drive good quality, 4ohm loudspeakers.

 

[bigboss]

If you go through your posts in this thread, you'll understand why I challenged your beliefs. Mocking people & their reviews with your own assumptions is arrogant. Why can't people look for musical abilities in an AV receiver? They don't want the very best in music (that a dedicated stereo amplifier can achieve), but want good music with the convenience of 1 package.

 

[bigboss]

To answer your question, in my opinion, there are no £1k AV receivers that can properly drive good quality, 4ohm loudspeakers.

So what are the advantages of 4 ohm speakers? Why can't manufacturers stick to 8 ohms?