Floorstanding speaker in small room

[nwarrenfl]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice for the best speaker type choice in a rectangular room (in attic). The room is 6 x 3.2 meters. As it's in the attic the top is quite high (I think 5 meters).

Currently I have this setup:
Monitor Audio MR2 speakers and Marantz PM-420 amplifier (2x45W).

My speakers sometimes suffer from port chuffing in movies when loud (not with music).
Could buying speaker stands cure it? As I use homemade stands now.

Anyway I'd like to upgade the speakers in the future, maybe with the BX2 which has better ports, or floorstanding speakers preferrably.

The problem is my room isn't big and the setup is close to a corner of the room, also the room itself has specific dimensions.

Here are some photos of my room:
https://imgur.com/a/C125Q

Do you think I could use floorstanding speakers in my case without adding too much resonance in the rest of the house (compared to the MR2)? Also note they are placed close to the wall.

Thanks in advance

 

[rainsoothe]

hey. Imo that room and that position is too small for floorstanders.

First of all, nice room

Secondly, I just recieved my speaker stands yesterday (Atacama Nexus 6i + atabites + baseplates + spike shoes) and the difference they make is humongous - everything is more tidy, soudstage is more spacious and bass resonance is almost completely gone (room and furniture would vibrate at bass-heavy passages). I think it's one of the biggest upgrades anyone could make for their existing system.

Thirdly, if you can keep your speakers at least 25cm away from the back wall, it would be great. If you don't intend changing your amplification, besides the BX2 (which I thought didn't do so great in the bass department either, but it might've been the Yamaha AS-500 that was powering them), I would shortlist Dali Zensor 3 (or Zensor 1 if you still wanna keep 'em near the wall) and Q Acoustics 3020. If you wanna change amplification to something with more power, then you should also add XTZ 93.23 mk II to your list.

And, last but not least, if PC is the only source you're using, consider active studio monitors.

 

[chebby]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice for the best speaker type choice in a rectangular room (in attic). The room is 6 x 3.2 meters. As it's in the attic the top is quite high (I think 5 meters).

Currently I have this setup:Monitor Audio MR2 speakers and Marantz PM-420 amplifier (2x45W).

My speakers sometimes suffer from port chuffing in movies when loud (not with music).Could buying speaker stands cure it? As I use homemade stands now.

Anyway I'd like to upgade the speakers in the future, maybe with the BX2 which has better ports, or floorstanding speakers preferrably.

The problem is my room isn't big and the setup is close to a corner of the room, also the room itself has specific dimensions.

Here are some photos of my room:Lintone Audio and Analogue Seduction are selling their last stocks of RS3s for around £430 - £450 on ebay.

RS3s retailed for £778 and their new RX3 replacements are going to be £1298.

RS3s are extremely adaptable when it comes to placement and are pretty compact units. They sound excellent and - just right now - are extremely good VFM!

 

[Leeps]

Others may be able to suggest something that will work for you, but in my opinion, you're making life difficult for yourself.

The best piece of advice I've read on this forum over the years (and have heeded in part) is to buy a system in the following order:

1. Buy speakers that suit the room they'll be placed in (and the location they'll be sited within the room)

2. Buy the best amp that will complement and drive those particular speakers.

3. Buy the sources that complement the rest of the system you now have.

Many people start with the wrong component and wonder why their (at times very expensive) systems sound dreadful because the limitations of the room is not allowing their speaker choice to perform well.

For starters, if you're placing speakers in a corner, rear ported speakers are probably best avoided unless they're very small and can actually use the bass resonance from the wall to their advantage.

Also if you're concerned about resonance through the rest of the house from your attic room, I'd recommend standmounted speakers on stout heavy sand/Atabite-filled speaker stands. I think its easier to isolate standmounted speakers from your floor than floorstanding speakers.

Speakers that are known to cope very well in difficult rooms are Neat Iotas (they sound MUCH better than their diminutive size suggests) and Guru Juniors (although I'm not sure whether you can still get these), although these might be over your budget. So in general I'd be looking at standmounted speakers with front ports or none at all (sealed speakers a la ATC SCM7).

One final comment. Don't be scared of buying the smallest speaker in a range falsely assuming that the larger one must be "better" because it's more expensive. I recently purchased the MA Gold GX50's. In my room (which is not especially small) they easily produce plenty of bass and I'm so glad I didn't go for the larger GX100's. They have the same tweeters as my speakers but larger bass drivers, so would have likely overwhelmed my room with bass. Bigger is not necessarily better.

A stated budget might help other posters come up with some specific suggestions for you.

 

[matt49]

There's a nice pair of PMC GB1s on ebay at the moment. They work very well in small rooms.

 

[nwarrenfl]

Thanks

I already thought the stands may be the problem, however my MR2 have a lot of bass, but it's the resonance like you said that makes me want to change. I will probably try with stands as the quality and bass is good for me.

 

[nwarrenfl]

I had a look at the speakers, but I don't want to spend more than 300€.

Thanks for the quick answers!

Others may be able to suggest something that will work for you, but in my opinion, you're making life difficult for yourself.

The best piece of advice I've read on this forum over the years (and have heeded in part) is to buy a system in the following order:

1. Buy speakers that suit the room they'll be placed in (and the location they'll be sited within the room)

2. Buy the best amp that will complement and drive those particular speakers.

3. Buy the sources that complement the rest of the system you now have.

Many people start with the wrong component and wonder why their (at times very expensive) systems sound dreadful because the limitations of the room is not allowing their speaker choice to perform well.

For starters, if you're placing speakers in a corner, rear ported speakers are probably best avoided unless they're very small and can actually use the bass resonance from the wall to their advantage.

Also if you're concerned about resonance through the rest of the house from your attic room, I'd recommend standmounted speakers on stout heavy sand/Atabite-filled speaker stands. I think its easier to isolate standmounted speakers from your floor than floorstanding speakers.

Speakers that are known to cope very well in difficult rooms are Neat Iotas (they sound MUCH better than their diminutive size suggests) and Guru Juniors (although I'm not sure whether you can still get these), although these might be over your budget. So in general I'd be looking at standmounted speakers with front ports or none at all (sealed speakers a la ATC SCM7).

One final comment. Don't be scared of buying the smallest speaker in a range falsely assuming that the larger one must be "better" because it's more expensive. I recently purchased the MA Gold GX50's. In my room (which is not especially small) they easily produce plenty of bass and I'm so glad I didn't go for the larger GX100's. They have the same tweeters as my speakers but larger bass drivers, so would have likely overwhelmed my room with bass. Bigger is not necessarily better.

A stated budget might help other posters come up with some specific suggestions for you.

So the MR2 may be a good choice in my room as they have front ports, with good stands?

 

[steve_1979]

Speaker stands may improve the sound from the speakers but they won't stop the port from chuffing. Provided those home made stand are solid enough they'll probably be fine (athough they're possibly a bit tall IMO).

To stop the chuffing you will either need to get some different speakers that can handle very deep bass frequencies at high volume levels better or you could get a subwoofer to use for watching movies. If you go the subwoofer route you'll need to set it up with a crossover so that the deep bass only goes to the subwoofer and the speakers are left only reproducing the higher frequencies from the mid-bass and up which they can comfortably handle.

IMO if your main perogative is music you'll probably be better off getting some new speakers but if your main perogative is watching movies then a subwoofer may be the best option. A subwoofer is more adjustable than floorstanders so it'll be easier to setup to match your rooms acoustics without causing any booming but they can sometimes be tricky to integrate with the main speakers. If possible then trying out both options in your own room before you buy would be the best way to choose.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

I have got say there are some funny suggetions popping here in regards to speakers solutions. A quick google will tell you what your dealing with and i would say the OP has chosen wisely in regards to speakers already.

To be hoenst you have your speaker on make shift stands, which is good! You have isolated them all be it in a very simple way. But put some blu tak under them (shaped like a soft spike) place but don"t squash! the speaker down and leave for few days you will find that will help alot with vibrations and stops in from moving and this trick will work on better supports to. But when you have time/money get proper suports for them to do them justic

But proper Stands will only go so far! Yes they will tighten eveything up and stop unwanted virbrations and what not but what they won't stop is port chuffing. Your speakers are not the problem its your amp its running out of head room (the amp looks be of a pretty vintage LOVE IT) which is why the speakers are chuffing. Basically its lossing control of the speakers. (possibly clipping).

I would look at upgrading that first (sorry probably not what you wanted to hear) the big E has a nice example of a Marantz pm7200 on there at the moment for a very nice price and you can also get very nice examples of Arcam AVR's (avr 250 avr 300) for the same price as a decent pair of (new) stands which will sound pretty good with music and movies alike (and by the looks of it you would be better off with an AVR any how as will have better digital conectivity for your media PC). For the moment thats where i'd spend my money forget the stands and use some blu tak on what you have.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[steve_1979]

... But proper Stands will only go so far! Yes they will tighten eveything up and stop unwanted virbrations and what not but what they won't stop is port chuffing. Your speakers are not the problem its your amp its running out of head room ...

Good point. Is it really port chuffing or is it amplifier clipping that the OP is hearing?

 

[nwarrenfl]

Well I just ordered the same amplifier as this one now is not mine, it sounds very good and clean.

But I don't think it's the amplifier, how can I know?
I already tried to find the cause of this noise, and it always ended up because there's too much air passing at once, but only with some very loud, short and deep bass. When this happens there's realy a lot of air though and the amplifier is only 1/5th of volume, I use loudness though. I filled the ports with the foams I got with the speakers, it cured the problem of course, however I find the sound to be less dynamic now.

About maybe a subwoofer, I can't connect it to this amp though.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

'Chuffing' is usually a sign of poor port design.

Doubt stands will stop the problem.

Noticed in your pick your speakers have the covers removed - is the chuffing still present when they are in place?

Simplist fix is to turn your amp down. Listen to your kit, get to know the levels on the amp or at what point on the amp the chuffing starts. If you have tone controls, use them.

Start with the bass at zero and increase it gradually.

Reduce the volume you listen at, you have a little scope ref speaker position.

Play with toe-in and distance between speakers to control bass, turn the speakers upside down or even on their sides 'tweeters in' to reduce bass and focus image - if you turn the bass down 'woofers in' to solidify the bass response if reduced by tone controls and widen sound image.

Don't be afraid to experiment .

A concrete slab under the stands secured with blutac could help with the resonance. But I'd suggest listen and find where in the room that problem is.

Looking at your pics - you may just need to optimise how your kit is set up.

You shouldn't have to spend another penny.

 

[nwarrenfl]

Thanks for the tips.

My amplifier should suffice for those speakers right? It was previously used with vintage Marantz HD 500 speakers which are more powerful than the MR2 I found, so I suppose the chuffing is not due to the amp?

http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/333/1585.html?begin=11

You don't find a lot of information about them, but they sound amazing and warm, the bass is very nice. The MR2 are nothing compared to them.
So I am considering to buy the same (160€ only)
What do you think?

BTW: When the covers are in place the chuffing is still there but reduced a lot from listening position, I removed them because I like their design and they had been slightly damaged

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Experiment.

The MR2 may start to amaze you after a while. Allow them time to loosen up.

But do not lock yourself to a 'how I've always had it!' mindset.

Some speakers are designed to work best with covers - Its part of their budget nature. Harsh edges, chuffing from 'budget' drivers and ported boxes easily reduced.

But work with your bass levels and speaker position - small changes can make differences.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Experiment.

The MR2 may start to amaze you after a while. Allow them time to loosen up.

But do not lock yourself to a 'how I've always had it!' mindset.

Some speakers are designed to work best with covers - Its part of their budget nature. Harsh edges, chuffing from 'budget' drivers and ported boxes easily reduced.

But work with your bass levels and speaker position - small changes can make differences.

Let us know how you get on.

+1 this is great advice.....

 

[Deleted member 116933]

You could really do alot better IMO its an old amp and those speakers could really do with somethng that can really control them with more real world power ratings. I would be looking into a secound hand Rotel (plenty on ebay) or as i stated above because your watching films get an AVR (arcam) and cheap subwoofer to take the strain of the bass.

like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcam-AVR100-Integrated-5-1-AV-Receiver-Amplifier-with-accessories-/281717583886?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4197ad300e

This is what i would be spending my money on and would be a dam sight easier for you to contect your pc too

Movies will eventually send your speakers to an early grave if you don't use them wisely.

But there is some really good adive above.. I think what your hearing is the limit of your amp not the speakers get to know your system and back the tone controls off. (in the pic looks like there all wound to the max). Keep them flat at higher volumes your speaker and will thank you for it

Thanks for the tips.

My amplifier should suffice for those speakers right? It was previously used with vintage Marantz HD 500 speakers which are more powerful than the MR2 I found, so I suppose the chuffing is not due to the amp?

http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/333/1585.html?begin=11

You don't find a lot of information about them, but they sound amazing and warm, the bass is very nice. The MR2 are nothing compared to them.So I am considering to buy the same (160€ only)What do you think?

BTW: When the covers are in place the chuffing is still there but reduced a lot from listening position, I removed them because I like their design and they had been slightly damaged

 

[Deleted member 116933]

I use loudness though.

Sorry just read this..... Thats the source of your plite turn that dam loudness switch off..... its meant to be used for low volume listening at night. i wouldn't even turn it up past the 8 oclock postion on the volume control.....

Get used to listening without it. it will make all the diffenece

 

[nwarrenfl]

Well I have them for 3 years now

 

[chebby]

I use loudness though.

Sorry just read this..... Thats the source of your plite turn that dam loudness switch off..... its meant to be used for low volume listening at night. i wouldn't even turn it up past the 8 oclock postion on the volume control.....

Get used to listening without it. it will make all the diffenece

Yeah, loudness (when used at anything other than the very lowest volume) is the audio equivalent of six spoons of sugar in all your drinks or a handful of salt thrown on every meal!

 

[nwarrenfl]

Well good to know, it's the first thing I'll try when home tonight.

So I presume I should disable it, re-equalize and raise the volume to have some dynamic sound?
As I remember the speakers sounded a bit boring without it on my old amplifier...

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Try reducing the tone levels to 0 and then using just the loudness button. Adjust just the treble first.

Then turn off the loudness and see how the sound compares adjusting the tones and volume only.

Move your speakers away from the tv stand, use the space - fire them straight with no toe-in also move them forward so they are in line with the tv.

Try a little 'toe-out' too to experiment with the width of the soundstage - you may like it.

3yrs you say - they'll be broken in nicely, hopefully the speakers will respond nicely to any changes.

And if you still have them try with and without the speaker covers.

I cannot say it enough, experiment and listen.

Sometimes less is more. Reduce the bass first though and work from there.

That amp is fine for those speakers.

 

[lpv]

You need Genelec M030 for £590.. 80 watts of amplification coupled directly to drivers, active crossover, high and low frequency ( for placement against a wall or in the corner) control at the back.. honest, natural and perfectly balanced sound with superb controled bass and smooth top.. better in all directions to any passive, same woofer size speaker at any price. I doubt you need more bass in your room but if yes then M040 is your next step.

http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/m-series-studio-monitors/m030-studio-monitor

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug13/articles/genelec-m030.htm

 

[LDTM]

Looking at your room layout, there are quite a lot of hard surfaces. If you clap your hands, do you hear a lot of echoing? Perhaps experimenting with room furnishings might be a cheap way to improve things if you do. Throwing some towels around the room could be an interesting, temporary (and free) test...