We're not happy with The extent of Sony's response, either - will pursue next week; review remains unpublished online for now.
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CES Hands On - Samsung HW-Q990F review
Hi clare,
what i said in my last post is correct, Sony are still in talks about this now, not so long ago people were led to believe the new batch in August would be the end of it but thats unlikely to be the case, whats even more baffling is Sony are still distributing replacement sets and they are the same!, i have told Sony what to do with the Adhesive process ( if indeed the diagnosis is accurate) that would in my opinion solve this, they must know this, however this may take time and each subsequent day the discussions are getting more and more prevailant with frustrated customers that want answers and satifactory replacement sets.
is that too much to ask.
what i said in my last post is correct, Sony are still in talks about this now, not so long ago people were led to believe the new batch in August would be the end of it but thats unlikely to be the case, whats even more baffling is Sony are still distributing replacement sets and they are the same!, i have told Sony what to do with the Adhesive process ( if indeed the diagnosis is accurate) that would in my opinion solve this, they must know this, however this may take time and each subsequent day the discussions are getting more and more prevailant with frustrated customers that want answers and satifactory replacement sets.
is that too much to ask.
so shall we all chip into the kitty to pay for a big shovel to send sony PR? they've dug themselves so far in a few more feet won't hurt.
do they think the staff at What HiFi cannot read other forums???? obviously.
you only need to spend 10 minutes on the avforum HX923 thread or sony's own forum to see that people have been ringing that so called helpline for weeks and in most cases the staff claim to not know anything, or they pass people from pillar to post.
As for "its only affected a small number of sets" does that actually translate to "we've only sold a small number of these sets due to this issue getting so much web time on the forums...so actually of the small number we've sold all are affected....."
if it only affected a small number of sets why is it customer like me and the many others on avforums, or on here or over on sony's own forum have been sent replacement sets that have the SAME issue and that was after sony said the replacements would be OK.....wake up Sony the replacements are NOT OK so from the "cheap seats" where we are all sitting this small number of affected sets seems to be ALL of the stock you have unless for some odd reason you don't want to send the good ones out???????
ps: lets not even mention that owners all over europe are now starting to find these forums and confirm same issues, as have our comrades over the pond on the US equivalent forums. Sony must literally have sold MILLIONS of HX92x series TV's already if this large community of global unhappy owners have the small number of affected sets. I know lightning doesnt strike twice but we must literally be covered in burns.
I appreciate PR departments have to give measured responses but there's dodging a question and then there just looking like a bunch of liars. Sony you're looking like the latter right now i'm afraid and I'm a Sony fan!!!!!
it's friday and time to have a beer i think the one good thing about the HX923 is that if it was perfect i'd be watching it like a zombie right now but instead over course of this week i'd made some new online friends and we've all had a good chat, so the HX923's marketing slogan (http://www.sony.co.uk/product/tv-139-55-lcd/kdl-55hx923) should not be:
"Discover Peak Picture Performance in Full HD 2D and 3D"
instead they should have gone for
"Discover new friends online and save money by not having the TV on - Free 5 year warranty (that's how long it will take the glue to cure"
do they think the staff at What HiFi cannot read other forums???? obviously.
you only need to spend 10 minutes on the avforum HX923 thread or sony's own forum to see that people have been ringing that so called helpline for weeks and in most cases the staff claim to not know anything, or they pass people from pillar to post.
As for "its only affected a small number of sets" does that actually translate to "we've only sold a small number of these sets due to this issue getting so much web time on the forums...so actually of the small number we've sold all are affected....."
if it only affected a small number of sets why is it customer like me and the many others on avforums, or on here or over on sony's own forum have been sent replacement sets that have the SAME issue and that was after sony said the replacements would be OK.....wake up Sony the replacements are NOT OK so from the "cheap seats" where we are all sitting this small number of affected sets seems to be ALL of the stock you have unless for some odd reason you don't want to send the good ones out???????
ps: lets not even mention that owners all over europe are now starting to find these forums and confirm same issues, as have our comrades over the pond on the US equivalent forums. Sony must literally have sold MILLIONS of HX92x series TV's already if this large community of global unhappy owners have the small number of affected sets. I know lightning doesnt strike twice but we must literally be covered in burns.
I appreciate PR departments have to give measured responses but there's dodging a question and then there just looking like a bunch of liars. Sony you're looking like the latter right now i'm afraid and I'm a Sony fan!!!!!
it's friday and time to have a beer i think the one good thing about the HX923 is that if it was perfect i'd be watching it like a zombie right now but instead over course of this week i'd made some new online friends and we've all had a good chat, so the HX923's marketing slogan (http://www.sony.co.uk/product/tv-139-55-lcd/kdl-55hx923) should not be:
"Discover Peak Picture Performance in Full HD 2D and 3D"
instead they should have gone for
"Discover new friends online and save money by not having the TV on - Free 5 year warranty (that's how long it will take the glue to cure"
Hi Clare/Andy - have you had a good response from Sony yet or are they dragging their heels hoping that it will all go away quietly if they say nothing?
got my 2nd replacement set from Sony.
worse than first. had enough now of all of this so sent it back for full refund.
very very disappointed in sony putting up with the "good enough" mantra....its not good enough at this price level.
very very impressed with the Sony dealer they have been excellent and completely supportive. sony dealer has told me they've now told sony they are not will to sell any more of these models as they are just wasting too much of their time. as of today they've got 8 more sets to send back!!!
worse than first. had enough now of all of this so sent it back for full refund.
very very disappointed in sony putting up with the "good enough" mantra....its not good enough at this price level.
very very impressed with the Sony dealer they have been excellent and completely supportive. sony dealer has told me they've now told sony they are not will to sell any more of these models as they are just wasting too much of their time. as of today they've got 8 more sets to send back!!!
hello all,this thread is really quite shocking...some early batch product launch`s suffer the odd teething problem,but its clear from this and other forums,that its more than that.Iv been a sony tv nut all of my life and were currently looking to update our brillant but sorely outdated sony 44" rear projection tv..so it really came down to the HX923 55" or the samsung D8000 55"...
now as stated the samsung has suffered a fair amount of issues around banding/clouding ect...reading hours of posts on av forums/samsung owners sites ect,the D 7000/8000 some QC issues aswell..but it seems its fairly mixed..a bit "pot luck" i think...but samsungs attitude to these early reports seems to differ from that of sony in that they seem to recognise that if "the customer is not happy" then a replacement set is forthcoming..whether thats directly or through the retailer(J.L,robert wyte,total digital,richer sounds ect),their are some people who have gone through 4 d8000 sets before they are satisfied...
now whilst this is obviously not ideal,there doesnt appear to have been much quibbling from samsung,now contast that with the sony situation and it seems they are very much behind the curve on customer service.
Im not sony-bashing here,i love their tv`s.......we`v seen both hx923 and d8000 on full input demos and they are both stunning...the sony did have right hand crease and the samsung did have slight top corner clouding but for £1k more with corporate customer service seemingly stuck a decade behind some other brands...the aftersales issue becomes the tipping point...which is a shame because iv only ever owned sony tv`s.
I hope everybody gets a good resouloution with this..
cheers
andre
now as stated the samsung has suffered a fair amount of issues around banding/clouding ect...reading hours of posts on av forums/samsung owners sites ect,the D 7000/8000 some QC issues aswell..but it seems its fairly mixed..a bit "pot luck" i think...but samsungs attitude to these early reports seems to differ from that of sony in that they seem to recognise that if "the customer is not happy" then a replacement set is forthcoming..whether thats directly or through the retailer(J.L,robert wyte,total digital,richer sounds ect),their are some people who have gone through 4 d8000 sets before they are satisfied...
now whilst this is obviously not ideal,there doesnt appear to have been much quibbling from samsung,now contast that with the sony situation and it seems they are very much behind the curve on customer service.
Im not sony-bashing here,i love their tv`s.......we`v seen both hx923 and d8000 on full input demos and they are both stunning...the sony did have right hand crease and the samsung did have slight top corner clouding but for £1k more with corporate customer service seemingly stuck a decade behind some other brands...the aftersales issue becomes the tipping point...which is a shame because iv only ever owned sony tv`s.
I hope everybody gets a good resouloution with this..
cheers
andre
WorriedTVBuyer said:
No, still not had a satisfactory response, Sony say they're "still investigating the issue". In the meantime we've published our review online, but added a link to this thread and noted the comments made by owners.
another sony store employee over on avforum checked all of their HX923's yesterday and has decided all have to go back, think they had 8 x 55" in stock and 6 x 46". based on the various forums its difficult to find anyone who's keeping theirs.
my dealer has had every single one they sold returned (and all of the replacements)
there is another batch of sets due in the UK in August which some owners/ex-owners (me included) are hoping will be fixed so we can re-purchase. if this next batch are just more of the same its going to be a real shame and a bit embarassing for sony.
not sure where i'm going to buy one from though as my current dealer has told me it is their intention not to order or sell this model anymore due to all of the returns and lost sales not to mention their time its wasted.
my dealer has had every single one they sold returned (and all of the replacements)
there is another batch of sets due in the UK in August which some owners/ex-owners (me included) are hoping will be fixed so we can re-purchase. if this next batch are just more of the same its going to be a real shame and a bit embarassing for sony.
not sure where i'm going to buy one from though as my current dealer has told me it is their intention not to order or sell this model anymore due to all of the returns and lost sales not to mention their time its wasted.
redbullmaster
Well-known member
Andy Clough said:
Hi Andy,
If you don't get a satisfactory response, maybe an update in the magazine would also be a good idea to inform potential owners of this issue.
i think andy/clare said WHF are doing a review of the 55" model and its competitors so that would be a good chance to mention the current farce that's going on in terms of us owners/ex-owners. mind reading the forums all of the competition sets (d8000 and vt30) seem to have their own foibles and rapid return rates as well. all in all 2011 doesn't seem to a brilliant year for high end TV's.
seems to be a total lack of focus on getting the basics right...i.e can the TV display good quailty uniform picture in 2D and more focus on can we pack in lots of gimmicky features that noone wants and use that as the reason its our flagship model then charge a premium for it.
surely from all of the returns and complaints manufacturers can see that you can pack in all of the "IP TV", "3D" stuff you like but if the TV cannot display a decent image and at the premium end a damn near perfect image (usual allowances for content being viewed) then people won't even get to the features as they'll have boxed it back up and be asking for a refund.
Its a real shame pioneer didn't hang about in the TV market and progress to LED at least they seemed to "get it" when it came to building a premium panel.
seems to be a total lack of focus on getting the basics right...i.e can the TV display good quailty uniform picture in 2D and more focus on can we pack in lots of gimmicky features that noone wants and use that as the reason its our flagship model then charge a premium for it.
surely from all of the returns and complaints manufacturers can see that you can pack in all of the "IP TV", "3D" stuff you like but if the TV cannot display a decent image and at the premium end a damn near perfect image (usual allowances for content being viewed) then people won't even get to the features as they'll have boxed it back up and be asking for a refund.
Its a real shame pioneer didn't hang about in the TV market and progress to LED at least they seemed to "get it" when it came to building a premium panel.
Southernsmoggy said:
If it had, the scale of losses in its TV division might have taken down the whole company. And anyway, the LCD TVs – and thus presumably any future LED models – were ousourced.
I received my Sony KDL-46HX923 Monday July 25, 2011. The Sony KDL-46HX923 has a pronounced light and dark strip/crease/band/line/shadow running down the left hand side. I rejected it as unsatifactory quality via an email to my dealer and Sony customer service due to the image issue shown below and discovering via Sony's own forum that other customers are seeing the same image problem on their Sony KDL-46HX923's.
I have raised this directly with Sony and my dealer. Two people from Sony have contact me as well as my dealer.
Rebecca@Sony told me that the Sony KDL-46HX923 had been withdrawn from sale at the moment and the Sony's dealers briefed on the problem.
Lee@Sony wrote that he can get me a "better set" but then also wrote "[the pronounced light and dark strip] will not show up on all the models, just the ones with this type of glass front and then it should only be at a very minor level".
So I am currently waiting a replacement KDL-46HX923 from Sony whilst still worrying if "minor" means "visible" which would of course be unsatisfactory on any screen.
I have raised this directly with Sony and my dealer. Two people from Sony have contact me as well as my dealer.
Rebecca@Sony told me that the Sony KDL-46HX923 had been withdrawn from sale at the moment and the Sony's dealers briefed on the problem.
Lee@Sony wrote that he can get me a "better set" but then also wrote "[the pronounced light and dark strip] will not show up on all the models, just the ones with this type of glass front and then it should only be at a very minor level".
So I am currently waiting a replacement KDL-46HX923 from Sony whilst still worrying if "minor" means "visible" which would of course be unsatisfactory on any screen.
Richard Hampshire said:
this is the rub.....sony have never come forward and said they can produce these sets without this issue even at a minor level which kind of implies they are all going to have the issue to some degree. both my 55" sets did. so for me until they can change the production process and eliminate the problem i'm not sure i could ever be fully happy with my purchase so for now i got my money back. at £2800 for the 55" i had i felt it had to be right at that money and accepting a minor flaw or however they wish to sugar coat it just isn't on in my book. real shame as apart from this the PQ on the rest of the screen was excellent.
OK, we have a fresh statement from Sony, which acknowledges there may be issues with 'un-uniform', b but that's "within specification."
"After a thorough investigation, our engineers have not detected any process or production issues for these TV products. These TV products have a special structure at the front of an LCD panel for achieving vivid picture by improving its optical characteristic. The structural characteristic might provoke a slightly visible un-uniformity of the brightness around the outer periphery of the display.
All shipped products have passed our internal quality test and such un-uniformity is within the specification. We are already explaining this to the few customers that have contacted us. If any customers have a question about these products then please contact our customer services on 0844 846 6555."
We've included this statement in our review, along with the continued advice that - especially with the likelihood of variations in performance - prospective purchasers try before they buy. There are certainly sets out there that suffer little/no problems, but it appears others may be more seriously affected.
"After a thorough investigation, our engineers have not detected any process or production issues for these TV products. These TV products have a special structure at the front of an LCD panel for achieving vivid picture by improving its optical characteristic. The structural characteristic might provoke a slightly visible un-uniformity of the brightness around the outer periphery of the display.
All shipped products have passed our internal quality test and such un-uniformity is within the specification. We are already explaining this to the few customers that have contacted us. If any customers have a question about these products then please contact our customer services on 0844 846 6555."
We've included this statement in our review, along with the continued advice that - especially with the likelihood of variations in performance - prospective purchasers try before they buy. There are certainly sets out there that suffer little/no problems, but it appears others may be more seriously affected.
thanks for the update clare!!!!
i LOVE it "un-uniform" funny that feature isn't mentioned in the list of other features the HX923 has...i must have missed that one
so having sent two of these back already I guess at least we now know that production process won't change so we either get another set or keep getting sets sent to us and sent back until we get one that is less-un-uniform OR we just ensure we ask to view the set in the store first and I mean view the actual set you'd receive NOT the display model OR we just forget this whole thing and wait for the new LG flagship model and see if they have "uniform" picture which seems like a not unreasonable request when spending nearly £3000 on a TV !
i LOVE it "un-uniform" funny that feature isn't mentioned in the list of other features the HX923 has...i must have missed that one
so having sent two of these back already I guess at least we now know that production process won't change so we either get another set or keep getting sets sent to us and sent back until we get one that is less-un-uniform OR we just ensure we ask to view the set in the store first and I mean view the actual set you'd receive NOT the display model OR we just forget this whole thing and wait for the new LG flagship model and see if they have "uniform" picture which seems like a not unreasonable request when spending nearly £3000 on a TV !
Im very, very disappointed, thats the biggest pile of ballyhoo i've ever heard in my life!!,
a company as big as Sony using THAT for an excuse to get out of putting the issue right, surely the What Hi Fi team can see through that, its no wonder people will be hanging on for the new Nano from LG!, if only they could sort their motion problems out with it i'd go for that.
a company as big as Sony using THAT for an excuse to get out of putting the issue right, surely the What Hi Fi team can see through that, its no wonder people will be hanging on for the new Nano from LG!, if only they could sort their motion problems out with it i'd go for that.
funny you mention the LG as I was just thinking I'm definitely going to audition it when released.
i've no experience of LG sets, do you know for a fact the new LG 980 has motion issues or is that just based on their previous offerings?
i've no experience of LG sets, do you know for a fact the new LG 980 has motion issues or is that just based on their previous offerings?
andy_s said:
We're still trying to work out how it can be part of a specification for something to be 'un-uniform'....
Needless to say that Sony's official confirmation of inconsistencies means that - despite our review sample being flawless - we can't wholeheartedly endorse this set/series.
i suppose we have to give Sony some credit. We all know other so called flagship sets (samsung d8000/7000 and Panasonic VT's) also have pages of owner reported issues on the web with little or no response from the manufacturer so in a way its quite refreshing to see a brand come out and basically say "Here's our new flagship range, please part wth a lot of money in these austere times and yes the picture is un-uniform, what do you want for £3000? jam on it?"
SouthernS,
i know of no motion problems with the new model only with the LX9900 that i had, it was a bit of a put off really as you could see the smearing on the faces of people badly, and not to mention the terrible backlight issue i had which is now sorted with the new ones i believe
i know of no motion problems with the new model only with the LX9900 that i had, it was a bit of a put off really as you could see the smearing on the faces of people badly, and not to mention the terrible backlight issue i had which is now sorted with the new ones i believe
Southernsmoggy said:yes the picture is un-uniform, what do you want for £3000? jam on it?"
they could always mask it with black plastic tape so you cant see it!!
In discussion at the moment, alongside reviews of additional HX923 models. In the meantime, readers of the review can be left in no doubt as to the potential issues should they purchase. We've also included an update in the next issue of the magazine, on sale later this month.
I personally don't think the 5* rating is justified now.
I've bought many products over the years mostly on the back of a what hifi 5* rating (yes I know I should make my own mind up...but it helps narrow down searching for "good products") so on that basis alone 4* is more like it especially at this price point.
i think the un-uniform statement from Sony is a reflection of Sony PR doing this -> :help:
can you imagine "What Car?" giving something like a new BMW a 5* rating if BMW came out and said "on some models the paint will be un-uniform down one or both sides but hey, you sit inside the car so won't see it and it'll still drive ok"
I've bought many products over the years mostly on the back of a what hifi 5* rating (yes I know I should make my own mind up...but it helps narrow down searching for "good products") so on that basis alone 4* is more like it especially at this price point.
i think the un-uniform statement from Sony is a reflection of Sony PR doing this -> :help:
can you imagine "What Car?" giving something like a new BMW a 5* rating if BMW came out and said "on some models the paint will be un-uniform down one or both sides but hey, you sit inside the car so won't see it and it'll still drive ok"
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