Over longer periods, I find the current fashion for fast, punchy, revealing systems hurts my ears to the point where they need a rest. They sound good in the demo rooms, but are quickly wearing at home. Isn't it time fashion changed to a warmer sound, if only to save our ears?
Fast, punchy, revealing = unlistenable
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Yes, big generalisation, because I was trying to avoid being brand-specific. Basically CA vs NAD, Yamaha vs Cyrus, MA vs Q-Acoustics, Triangle against Canton, that sort of thing.
This came up in a conversation with the guys at my local Audio T when I was in the UK, last, looking for a DAC. They only had the Cyrus, but, when I described what I liked, we nattered on a bit and decided 2 out of the 3 of us had old-fashioned ears and preferred less revealing systems, so the DAC wasn't for me.
Of course it's a matter taste, but at the moment most of the budget to midrange gear tends towards the FPR, and you have to spend a lot more to get something else.
This came up in a conversation with the guys at my local Audio T when I was in the UK, last, looking for a DAC. They only had the Cyrus, but, when I described what I liked, we nattered on a bit and decided 2 out of the 3 of us had old-fashioned ears and preferred less revealing systems, so the DAC wasn't for me.
Of course it's a matter taste, but at the moment most of the budget to midrange gear tends towards the FPR, and you have to spend a lot more to get something else.
The good thing is there is a lot of choice - if the forward sounding Cyrus and Cambridge is too much you can try the Arcam's or NAD's of this world or even valve based set ups.
There is something for everyone but you just have to find the one thats right for you.
There is something for everyone but you just have to find the one thats right for you.
It's amazing how (relatively) forward a neutral and uncoloured sound can seem. I think a lot of people prefer a coloured sound.
chebby
Well-known member
igglebert:It's amazing how (relatively) forward a neutral and uncoloured sound can seem. I think a lot of people prefer a coloured sound.
The importance of stereo imaging has taken a backseat nowadays. (I sometimes think it has been thrown out of the car!)
I guess it's importance to manufacturers and reviewers correlates directly to the percentage of customers who listen regularly to classical or acoustic material. (ie very few)
I rarely see any comment on these forums or in reviews about that old-fashioned idea (that a good hifi should be able to throw a convincing soundstage with depth and width).
It is all about 'slam' and 'grunt' and raw power nowadays.
The importance of stereo imaging has taken a backseat nowadays. (I sometimes think it has been thrown out of the car!)
I guess it's importance to manufacturers and reviewers correlates directly to the percentage of customers who listen regularly to classical or acoustic material. (ie very few)
I rarely see any comment on these forums or in reviews about that old-fashioned idea (that a good hifi should be able to throw a convincing soundstage with depth and width).
It is all about 'slam' and 'grunt' and raw power nowadays.
Yes it does also seem that the most popular award winning products in WHF for instance feature with key terminology such as clear, fast, detailed, punchy, forward which shows the sign of the times as well.
A coloured or warm sound could in fact be much much better for a lot of people.
A coloured or warm sound could in fact be much much better for a lot of people.
chebby:
igglebert:It's amazing how (relatively) forward a neutral and uncoloured sound can seem. I think a lot of people prefer a coloured sound.
The importance of stereo imaging has taken a backseat nowadays. (I sometimes think it has been thrown out of the car!)
I guess it's importance to manufacturers and reviewers correlates directly to the percentage of customers who listen regularly to classical or acoustic material. (ie very few)
I rarely see any comment on these forums or in reviews about that old-fashioned idea (that a good hifi should be able to throw a convincing soundstage with depth and width).
It is all about 'slam' and 'grunt' and raw power nowadays.
I didn't know what imaging and soundstage was until I heard my Spendors. Classical music makes sense now whereas before it was a bit mushy and uninteresting. You can still have coloured sound with good imaging though, which is where some of the valve offerings excel.
igglebert:It's amazing how (relatively) forward a neutral and uncoloured sound can seem. I think a lot of people prefer a coloured sound.
The importance of stereo imaging has taken a backseat nowadays. (I sometimes think it has been thrown out of the car!)
I guess it's importance to manufacturers and reviewers correlates directly to the percentage of customers who listen regularly to classical or acoustic material. (ie very few)
I rarely see any comment on these forums or in reviews about that old-fashioned idea (that a good hifi should be able to throw a convincing soundstage with depth and width).
It is all about 'slam' and 'grunt' and raw power nowadays.
I didn't know what imaging and soundstage was until I heard my Spendors. Classical music makes sense now whereas before it was a bit mushy and uninteresting. You can still have coloured sound with good imaging though, which is where some of the valve offerings excel.
idc
Well-known member
There has got to be enough products on the market to cater for both tastes. For me fast, punchy and revealing = great music. Maybe after hours I will have tired a bit, but better that than never getting a lift out of the warmer sound.
Arguably my headphone set up has a mix of the two styles, with the Music Fidelity amp on the warmer side, the ipod relatively neutral and Grados being faster and punchy. A balance is then achieved, so I can listen without tiring for hours to a sound that for some would be too fast and punchy.
Arguably my headphone set up has a mix of the two styles, with the Music Fidelity amp on the warmer side, the ipod relatively neutral and Grados being faster and punchy. A balance is then achieved, so I can listen without tiring for hours to a sound that for some would be too fast and punchy.
Matching the hardware to get the right sound is one of the most important parts of putting together hi-fi and for me fun too.
My Arcam's are usually called neutral or sometimes slightly warm and by some as laid back (although this last one gives an impression i dont agree with) but the Neat Motives are generally considered fast and punchy so i think i have a good balance too.
I am still tempted to try some floorstanders though one day although room size isnt huge.
My Arcam's are usually called neutral or sometimes slightly warm and by some as laid back (although this last one gives an impression i dont agree with) but the Neat Motives are generally considered fast and punchy so i think i have a good balance too.
I am still tempted to try some floorstanders though one day although room size isnt huge.
I know what you mean, the cyrus amp is meant to be fast, punchy and bright, but with the spendor speakers, van den hul interconnect, and the arcam (to a degree), it sounds great to me. Very expansive, detailed, but the amp is quite full too, but not bright.
It is all about getting a sound you like.
I used to rely on write ups, and found out the hard way, that you have to sit down with home trials and find the sound you want and like, matched to the acoustics of your actual room.
It is all about getting a sound you like.
I used to rely on write ups, and found out the hard way, that you have to sit down with home trials and find the sound you want and like, matched to the acoustics of your actual room.
Hi Tarquin,
I agree with you. I guess the idea is that bright systems sound good for short periods of time - ie in the shop! I like to listen for long periods of time so like a warm, relaxed sound. It does seem to me that many speakers, especially, are too bright and revealing. Perhaps if I only listened for short periods I would want a fast, punchy and revealing sound.
I agree with you. I guess the idea is that bright systems sound good for short periods of time - ie in the shop! I like to listen for long periods of time so like a warm, relaxed sound. It does seem to me that many speakers, especially, are too bright and revealing. Perhaps if I only listened for short periods I would want a fast, punchy and revealing sound.
One of the huge benefits of buying separates, you can mix and match. From personal experinces I have had/heard all sorts of combinations. More recently i found an all Arcam setup too relaxed and almost boring for my type of music (predominantly rock). Then an all Cyrus line up was too forward and tiring. When combining Arcam and Cyrus though, i found what i wanted, a good mix of both.
idc
Well-known member
Yes ear, and then you could rock to Sepultura on either system depending on your mood and how long you want to listen to them!
ear:true ideal is to have 2 systems nd use them according to your mood
A nice near-field monitor system with a neutral, revealing and detailed sound for intimate music. A nice full-range speakers, "welly" system for expansive rock, pop and HT. Just need a bigger house now...
A nice near-field monitor system with a neutral, revealing and detailed sound for intimate music. A nice full-range speakers, "welly" system for expansive rock, pop and HT. Just need a bigger house now...
plastic penguin
Well-known member
I think it's always important to have a long trial period, preferably at home. This will give you a better indication on whether you could live with it or not.
idc
Well-known member
ear:Ever got the impression that your friend's system sounds better than yours?
Yes (and there will be mutterings of malcontentnessness!) but it was a Bose Lifestyle system vs my Arcam/Rega/B&W setup.
Yes (and there will be mutterings of malcontentnessness!) but it was a Bose Lifestyle system vs my Arcam/Rega/B&W setup.
I have an 1991 sony mhc-3600 system and a friend of mine a few month latter bought a sony but the entry level model.I always tought his system sounded better. weird. the speakers on my system were made of 2 units.the bass unit and the middle trebble unit.real crappy that.since I couldnt upgrade the speakers.
igglebert:It's amazing how (relatively) forward a neutral and uncoloured sound can seem. I think a lot of people prefer a coloured sound.
IME anything to do with music reproduction which appears or sounds 'forward' is totally wrong and an unwanted distortion. Natural acoustic sound has none of this 'forward'-ness that hifi folk seem to think is such a great thing.
IME anything to do with music reproduction which appears or sounds 'forward' is totally wrong and an unwanted distortion. Natural acoustic sound has none of this 'forward'-ness that hifi folk seem to think is such a great thing.
"IME anything to do with music reproduction which appears or sounds 'forward' is totally wrong and an unwanted distortion. Natural acoustic sound has none of this 'forward'-ness that hifi folk seem to think is such a great thing. "
True true true.
True true true.
Tear Drop: IME anything to do with music reproduction which appears or sounds 'forward' is totally wrong and an unwanted distortion. Natural acoustic sound has none of this 'forward'-ness that hifi folk seem to think is such a great thing.
It depends how you define "forwardness"? Are some acoustic sounds not naturally "forward/brash/bright"? Eg Spanish guitar high notes being twanged 6 feet away.... And there is nothing wrong if that sound is translated faithfully by the music system.
It depends how you define "forwardness"? Are some acoustic sounds not naturally "forward/brash/bright"? Eg Spanish guitar high notes being twanged 6 feet away.... And there is nothing wrong if that sound is translated faithfully by the music system.
AKL:
Tear Drop: IME anything to do with music reproduction which appears or sounds 'forward' is totally wrong and an unwanted distortion. Natural acoustic sound has none of this 'forward'-ness that hifi folk seem to think is such a great thing.
It depends how you define "forwardness"? Are some acoustic sounds not naturally "forward/brash/bright"? Eg Spanish guitar high notes being twanged 6 feet away.... And there is nothing wrong if that sound is translated faithfully by the music system.
Forward is not the same thing as brash, and bright is again different. I find the trumpet to be an extremely 'brash' live instrument, but it will never be forward, that is a distortion inherent in music/sound reproduction.
Tear Drop: IME anything to do with music reproduction which appears or sounds 'forward' is totally wrong and an unwanted distortion. Natural acoustic sound has none of this 'forward'-ness that hifi folk seem to think is such a great thing.
It depends how you define "forwardness"? Are some acoustic sounds not naturally "forward/brash/bright"? Eg Spanish guitar high notes being twanged 6 feet away.... And there is nothing wrong if that sound is translated faithfully by the music system.
Forward is not the same thing as brash, and bright is again different. I find the trumpet to be an extremely 'brash' live instrument, but it will never be forward, that is a distortion inherent in music/sound reproduction.
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