Fanciful design choices...

[insider9]

I know there's a few forumites with Naim kit. I got my second hand purchase today (5i-2) and wondering if you could tell me whether the quirks are made up in sound quality (still to listen properly). Some design choices are puzzling for first time Naim user.

First, thump on switch on. What the...? Wasn't expecting that. Read the manual and Naim forum and it's normal. Ok if you say so... Sure the volume was all the way down but still, it scared me. There's also a pop on switch off which isn't as loud but present. But Naim gear like many other is designed to be left on. Fair enough.

Second, speaker terminals... Right channel is positioned on the left hand side of the amp. Left channel on the right hand side. I only know this as connected them as normal and had to listen to a few tracks to realise that the instruments are in the wrong channel. That means speakers cables are crossing... Why would that be? Never seen anything like it. That's bizarre.

Do you use them wired other way round so that channels are correct and speaker cables don't cross?

Third... Hum/hiss, audible hum/hiss that goes up and down with volume. White noise like. How is that acceptable with an always on amp? Still slightly audible at minimum volume. My system is the bedroom so keeping it on with it hissing/humming is not an option. But I'm not looking forward to switching on and off either. EDIT: This turned out to be a ground loop!

Above are apparently design choices and not issue. I know it's ultimately all about the sound and I'm still to listen.

Come on... out with it what other design quirks have you come across with other kit/brands?

 

[newlash09]

Just joking...but fondly hope you don't have the amp upside down

 

[insider9]

Just joking...but fondly hope you don't have the amp upside down

Haha, if I have I'm sure they'd claim that's how it should be

Another one is a 3.5mm jack on the front that looks like a headphone socket. It turns out it's an input for iPod and the likes.

 

[newlash09]

Of snake oil making it hiss too

 

[insider9]

Of snake oil making it hiss too

Don't you start I know Naim want me to use their own speaker cables. Why wouldn't they at £32.50 per meter unterminated?

 

[CnoEvil]

Of snake oil making it hiss too

Don't you start I know Naim want me to use their own speaker cables. Why wouldn't they at £32.50 per meter unterminated?

Linn K20 (reasonable on ebay), is the same as the old Naim NAC 04.

 

[insider9]

Of snake oil making it hiss too

Don't you start I know Naim want me to use their own speaker cables. Why wouldn't they at £32.50 per meter unterminated?

Linn K20 (reasonable on ebay), is the same as the old Naim NAC 04.

Thanks Cno. I've actually wanted to try NAC-A5 a while ago. I'd buy second hand and they do for reasonable cost but don't expect big differences so not really worth spending for a second system.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

On Cyrus kit it has connections called mc-bus, so you can turn the system on by one button press on the pre amp. These are basically phono leads connecting components together. After about 2 months of listening, it fails so no longer works.

You have to turn the whole lot off and on again. It's bloody annoying but then every Cyrus signature system owner has this issue. I put up for it as the sound of Cyrus signature systems are so damm good, and quite a step up from lesser Cyrus intergrateds etc.

 

[jjbomber]

Do you use them wired other way round so that channels are correct and speaker cables don't cross?

According to Naim, the amps should not be between the speakers but at one side of the room, so that is why they are crossed. I think it's all an attempt to sell longer speaker cables. According to my local dealers, avoid Naim speaker cable.

 

[CnoEvil]

Of snake oil making it hiss too

Don't you start I know Naim want me to use their own speaker cables. Why wouldn't they at £32.50 per meter unterminated?

Linn K20 (reasonable on ebay), is the same as the old Naim NAC 04.

Thanks Cno. I've actually wanted to try NAC-A5 a while ago. I'd buy second hand and they do for reasonable cost but don't expect big differences so not really worth spending for a second system.

Sorry, that should have read NAC A4 (which I have in a second system). It was bought in the early 80s when I had Naim 42/110/Snaps...now long since gone (along with my LP12).

Apparently NAC A4 was made for Naim by BICC. Unfortunately due to an alleged change of staff and premises, BICC thought it was their design and started to supply a similar cable to other manufacturers, including Linn..

As a result, Naim designed the NAC A5. It is my understanding that the A5 sounds less "heavy" and more agile and is a great choice for Naim systems...this is, it has to be said, dependent on if you believe a cable can effect such things.

 

[insider9]

Do you use them wired other way round so that channels are correct and speaker cables don't cross?

According to Naim, the amps should not be between the speakers but at one side of the room, so that is why they are crossed. I think it's all an attempt to sell longer speaker cables. According to my local dealers, avoid Naim speaker cable.

Ahhh, thanks JJ!

I agree in principle but each room is different and design like this is just bizarre.

 

[nopiano]

You have picked a quirky brand, though they have become more commercial and less hair shirt over time.

The switch on thump is the type of 'characteristic' I think smacks of poor design, and is why I've never owned one and am unlikely to, much as I have enjoyed the sound in various systems over the years. I had an early pre/power combo at home in the early days, and the hiss and hum was standard, as was the sensitivity to light switches. I bet your Sony doesn't do that!

 

[insider9]

You have picked a quirky brand, though they have become more commercial and less hair shirt over time.  

The switch on thump is the type of 'characteristic' I think smacks of poor design, and is why I've never owned one and am unlikely to, much as I have enjoyed the sound in various systems over the years.  I had an early pre/power combo at home in the early days, and the hiss and hum was standard, as was the sensitivity to light switches.   I bet your Sony doesn't do that!

Haha, eccentricity... is that what it is called?

They remind me of Apple with some of their attitude and pricing make of that what you will.

 

[Pedro]

The thump on switch on is normal, but I don't think a mute relay would cost that much to implement.

I don't think hum and hiss that go up and down with volume are normal. I owned a Nait 5si and there was no hiss. If it was a low hiss (only audible if you had your ears against the speakers with no music) then I reckon it would be just the amp gain.

The 5si occasionally hummed for 30s or a minute and then stopped. Maybe you've got some sort of electrical interference?

My current amp (ATC's integrated) does a tiny thump on switch on, but nothing like the 5si.

My father owns a Yamaha amp/receiver and speakers from the late 70s (around my age; I'm 40) and it also does a horrible thump, worse than the Naim, but the speakers are still apparently fine.

 

[insider9]

The thump on switch on is normal, but I don't think a mute relay would cost that much to implement. 

I don't think hum and hiss that go up and down with volume are normal. I owned a Nait 5si and there was no hiss. If it was a low hiss (only audible if you had your ears against the speakers with no music) then I reckon it would be just the amp gain.

The 5si occasionally hummed for 30s or a minute and then stopped. Maybe you've got some sort of electrical interference?

My current amp (ATC's integrated) does a tiny thump on switch on, but nothing like the 5si. 

My father owns a Yamaha amp/receiver and speakers from the late 70s (around my age; I'm 40) and it also does a horrible thump, worse than the Naim, but the speakers are still apparently fine.

Thanks Pedro. After going through Naim forum I believe it is rather normal, unfortunately.

Anyone with Naim gear who could confirm/deny?

 

[ellisdj]

I thought he wrote their is a pop on swithching off - not sure had that one before?

Have I gone mad? Stressful day today

 

[insider9]

I thought he wrote their is a pop on swithching off - not sure had that one before?

Have I gone mad? Stressful day today

Thump - switching on
Pop - switch off

Confirmed as normal by the manual.

And hiss (white noise like) when no music is playing. Again many on Naim forum say it's normal with sensitive speakers.

 

[ellisdj]

Sounds like noise floor - time for mains conditioning ...

 

[chebby]

Sometimes I think back to my Naim 5i , CD5i, NAT05 system of 2009 - 2011 and wonder ...

Then this thread comes along and brings it all back to me clear as day!

The Philips RC5 remote control code hassles (televisions and others 'bricking' the amp until powered off and on again), NACA5 wire being so inflexible (without hair dryer to bend it) that you didn't need stands. (Remove stand and speaker just stays aloft.)

The matching CD player that was out-performed by a Beresford DAC at a seventh of the cost.

The switch-on 'starter pistol' impressions.

The dealer telling you to allow 6 weeks for it to 'recover' from being powered off whilst you go on holiday. (His cure for this - seriously - "don't go on holiday".)

I sold the system (at very little loss I should concede) and had fun again.

 

[insider9]

Sounds like noise floor - time for mains conditioning ...

I've never had anything like it. It must be the first amp in 20 or so I've owned to behave like this.

I've recently had a Roksan, NAD, Behringer and still have both Sony and they're all ok.

 

[Pedro]

Maybe I got it wrong but I thought you were going the active route...

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I know the speaker terminals seem to be the wrong way round but in the studio days the amp faced you that way for easy cable switching..so if you look at the amp from the rear the terminals are actually the correct way round.my nait xs had hum now and again,didn't worry or bother me much as it couldn't be heard once the music was played.but my superuniti has none.oh and keep the amp on then you won't worry about on /off thump.lol.I have never had any hiss though unless volume was right down and my ear was to the speakers.quirky...but still sounds darn good.

 

[nopiano]

You have picked a quirky brand, though they have become more commercial and less hair shirt over time.

The switch on thump is the type of 'characteristic' I think smacks of poor design, and is why I've never owned one and am unlikely to, much as I have enjoyed the sound in various systems over the years. I had an early pre/power combo at home in the early days, and the hiss and hum was standard, as was the sensitivity to light switches. I bet your Sony doesn't do that!

Haha, eccentricity... is that what it is called?

They remind me of Apple with some of their attitude and pricing make of that what you will.

And the speaker terminals are the 'right way' around on the newer models, judging by the pic in the latest magazine. Never thought of them like Apple, but then I remember visiting the original Salisbury site when Mr Vereker would demo them himself. A hobby grown big, and one I admire but struggle to relate to.

I can't actually think of anything else so quirky, aside perhaps from the Linn LP12, which has also changed completely despite retaining the overall look.

 

[insider9]

Maybe I got it wrong but I thought you were going the active route...

Yes, but I was playing about recently as sent Minidsp for repairs. The active project is very much alive.

The Naim will be for second system unless I decide I'll push the boat out for Electrocompaniet/Abrahamsen or a Sugden

 

[lindsayt]

...Third... Hum/hiss, audible hum/hiss that goes up and down with volume. White noise like. How is that acceptable with an always on amp? Still slightly audible at minimum volume. My system is the bedroom so keeping it on with it hissing/humming is not an option. But I'm not looking forward to switching on and off either.
Above are apparently design choices and not issue. I know it's ultimately all about the sound and I'm still to listen.

Come on... out with it what other design quirks have you come across with other kit/brands?

The first two are acceptable as they don't affect the sound quality.

The volume dependent hum hiss is unacceptable in anything other than an ultra budget amp.

Sell it and buy something else for less money that sounds at least as good and doesn't have the annoying hiss and hum.