Entirely new setup for lounge

[danson]

Hi all,

I'm just putting together a system for my lounge and would be very grateful of some advice.

Firstly I'd like for you to be able to get a grasp of the space I'm dealing with so I've attached a floor plan of the lounge and shown in red the proposed speaker positions and in blue the proposed turntable position. My sofa is positioned opposite the speakers. The speakers are placed on book shelves, I've also attached a photo of these shelving units.

My Needs:

Most of the time I will be using the system for watching TV and listening to music at moderate levels. Occasionally I will want to be able to crank the sound up reasonably loud if I'm throwing a bit of a party. Music I listen to regularly includes 80s pop (stuff like prince etc), funk, disco/ boogie, Jazz, classical and electronic (ranging from Daft Punk through to harder stuff). I'd like to be able to get as big and room filling a sound as possible.

My Limitations:

The shelves I am placing the speakers on are not spaced particularly far apart, as a result 27cm is really the max height I can go to on speakers whilst leaving a little gap above them (depth and width is good so not an issue). Floor standers are not an option unfortunately (space is limited and my girlfriend simply wont allow them). I could potentially stand taller speakers (up to around 33cm) on top of the cupboard section which is just below the shelving, however, I plan to place a turntable there and I've always been led to believe that placing speakers on the same surface as a turntable isn't the best idea. The turntable on my list to buy is a Michell Orbe SE - I was planning to also buy the isolation base for it to sit on - would this mean it wouldn't be such an issue if the speakers were standing on the same surface? I would also buy isolation pads for the speakers however that would obviously knock a few CMs off the available height.

Speakers:

I bought a pair of Pioneer S-A4SPT-PT speakers (the malt whiskey ones) however I think that I may have rushed into that buy a little as I was very taken by the look of them and could find few reviews on them. Recently I've found some more reviews that say they're actually pretty good but not amazing, good for their price point.

I've been looking at the Dali Mentor Menuets, Sonos Fabre Toys, PMC DB1s (although probably not the best option as they'd be on a shelf very near a wall) ATC SCM 7s and the Harberth P3ESR (although the Harberths are just over 30cm so would need to stand on the same surface as the turntable).

Budget wise, I could go up to about £1.5k for speakers, maybe a little more.

Amp:

I would love a valve/ tube amp however I'm not going to have the most efficient speakers considering the size of them, also the range of genres I'd be listening to on them is quite wide and includes some rather loud/ harder music. I was thinking hybrid could be a good way to go and have been doing some reading up on the Unison Research Unico Secondo (which seems very good) and I'm hoping would give me the best of both worlds!?!

The Secondo is a very deep amp size wise and therefore I'd have no space to place it other than in the cupboard below the turntable. This is a nuisance because I'll have to open the cupboard to make any changes in volume etc. Is there also an issue though with heat? Would placing an amp that has tubes in inside a cupboard cause the tubes and amp in general to run very hot? There would be a hole going into the cupboard where all the wiring for the speakers, turntable etc will be fed through, would that be enough ventilation?

I also looked at the Unison Research Simply Italy but thought that the Low Wattage coupled with the type of speakers I need to get and my music tastes rendered this an inappropriate match. I'd welcome any other suggestions.

Thanks to those of you who managed to get all the way through this lengthy and arduous post and any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[stevebrock]

Neat Iotas come to mind!

They are specifically designed to be used on bookshelves and they sound pretty good too! They are designed to be used on there sides to

The speakers you have mentioned are all excellent but would be totally wasted on shelves!

 

[floyd droid]

Your missus aint going to like spaghetti draped across the fireplace either , I would hazard a guess ?. Is it a working fire/ornamental/ or is the telly there ?. Will be suck it and see regarding the Orbes position relative to the speakers. Not ideal but as I say.That fireplace is screaming out for a valve integrated as a focal point

 

[chebby]

Got another room we can try?

(Frankly I can't even see how you get furniture in there with all the fireplaces, cupboards, shelves, bay window, doors etc. let alone hi-fi!)

 

[richardw42]

Dynaudio Xeo 3 wireless active speakers. ?

 

[Macspur]

Hi and welcome.

Not a good idea to put a valve amp inside a cupboard, so may I suggest one of these

http://www.sugdenaudio.com/mystro.htm

Mac

 

[danson]

Hi chaps,

Thanks for the quick response. Re the fireplace, the TV is wall mounted above it and we have chased in trunking that runs the full width of the chimney breast and emerges in the side of the shelving units. So all wiring can be fed through the wall easily and is completely hidden behind the wall..

I will check our the speakers suggested, larger speakers that work well on their sides are definitely a good option!

 

[floyd droid]

Got another room we can try?

(Frankly I can't even see how you get furniture in there with all the fireplaces, cupboards, shelves, bay window, doors etc. let alone hi-fi!)

Sound bar for the telly and shift the hifi down t'other end * maybe Chebby ?.

I agree , with apologies to the Op, that rooms a nightmare.

1-10 theres a dining table plonked there.

 

[floyd droid]

Hi chaps,

Thanks for the quick response. Re the fireplace, the TV is wall mounted above it and we have chased in trunking that runs the full width of the chimney breast and emerges in the side of the shelving units. So all wiring can be fed through the wall easily and is completely hidden behind the wall..

Ok ,wall mounted telly,check

Working fire or dried flower arrangement.

 

[matt49]

+1 for Neat Iotas. I'm listening to mine as I type this; they're on wall brackets. Very nice, and they go loud. They're available in white, so would blend in with your shelves.

If you like the idea of a valve hybrid, you could look into Croft. Mac's point about valve amps in cupboards is a good one. I'm sure Croft would be able to advise on whether you can run their amps in a cupboard.

Cheers,

Matt

 

[DocG]

Dynaudio Xeo 3 wireless active speakers. ?

If you have a wall socket near the speaker positions, this room looks like it's made for these. Would save you a lot of hassle... if you come away with the rear port, that is.

 

[DocG]

+1 for Neat Iotas. I'm listening to mine as I type this; they're on wall brackets. Very nice, and they go loud. They're available in white, so would blend in with your shelves.

If you like the idea of a valve hybrid, you could look into Croft. Mac's point about valve amps in cupboards is a good one. I'm sure Croft would be able to advise on whether you can run their amps in a cupboard.

Cheers,

Matt

I'm not convinced the valves in the prestage of a hybrid amp are much of a problem; the possible class A bias of an amp would produce far more heat IMO.

 

[matthewpiano]

I'd go with the Neat Iotas too - fantastic little speakers when I heard them.

Amp-wise the Sugden Mystro is a good call, but I'd strongly recommend trying the Creek Destiny 2. Sheer class and beautifully made. The new Rega Elicit-R would also be another good option.

Not the easiest of rooms to get sounding right, but I'm sure you'll get it right in the end.

 

[BigH]

I would wall mount them, esp. with a TT on the same shelfs. You may want to lower them also as speakers are best with tweeters about ear level. Get an isolation platform for thr TT as well.

 

[floyd droid]

I would wall mount them, esp. with a TT on the same shelfs. You may want to lower them also as speakers are best with tweeters about ear level. Get an isolation platform for thr TT as well.

As I said earlier ,its suck it and see.

Last week I set up an Orbe for someone. "Where are we putting it then ? ".

"Oh on the AV rack". Directly behind a Revel Ultima Salon 2 !!.

Jeez i'm thinking this could be fun , suspended floor to boot.

No problems at all even at stupido spls.

It all depends H.

 

[danson]

Thanks guys.

Matthew - The Destiny 2 looks very good, no phono stage from what I can tell but obviously I can just buy a little phono box seperately.

Floyd - It is a working fireplace, no valve amp cetrepiece possible unfortunately ;-) I agree that we'll just have to see what happens with the turntable, hopefully with speakers on isolation pads/ spikes and the turntable on the proper Michell isolation platform it'll be ok.

DocG - Interesting, if the valves in a hybrid wont be much of a problem heat wise that would be great - I'll try and find out more about that. Matt's suggestion of looking into and talking to Croft is a good one.

BigH - Yes the tweeters should certainly ideally be at ear height but unfortunately the shelf below the one in the picture isn't there on the other side of the fireplace. The only other lower placement available is next to the TT.

The room is a bloody nightmare. I've been trying to get my head around it for a week now.

I'll definitely try to get a pair of the Neat Iotas on loan to hear them. I've heard that the Dali Mentor Menuets actually work very well indeed on a shelf near a wall and that they're about as good a speaker as one can find at that size, maybe not as loud and powerful as the Iotas though?

 

[BigH]

I think the room is OK its just all the cupboards and shelves in the way. I would try the Neats on home loan if you can, see if they will work, if shelf vibration is a problem you can get isolation pads for speakers which should help. IMHO with that set up I would not spend too much money on it. Just wondering if you could fit some Neat floorstanders in front of the cupboards?

 

[CnoEvil]

Pathos make very musical Hybrid amps as well.

 

[stevebrock]

I think the room is OK its just all the cupboards and shelves in the way. I would try the Neats on home loan if you can, see if they will work, if shelf vibration is a problem you can get isolation pads for speakers which should help. IMHO with that set up I would not spend too much money on it. Just wondering if you could fit some Neat floorstanders in front of the cupboards?

Neat floorstanders need space......lots of space!

 

[BigH]

I think the room is OK its just all the cupboards and shelves in the way. I would try the Neats on home loan if you can, see if they will work, if shelf vibration is a problem you can get isolation pads for speakers which should help. IMHO with that set up I would not spend too much money on it. Just wondering if you could fit some Neat floorstanders in front of the cupboards?

Neat floorstanders need space......lots of space!

Do they, even the Motive 2s?

 

[stevebrock]

I think the room is OK its just all the cupboards and shelves in the way. I would try the Neats on home loan if you can, see if they will work, if shelf vibration is a problem you can get isolation pads for speakers which should help. IMHO with that set up I would not spend too much money on it. Just wondering if you could fit some Neat floorstanders in front of the cupboards?

Neat floorstanders need space......lots of space!

Do they, even the Motive 2s?

Well judging by the OPs room dimensions, he will have them firing across 3.7m at most fron the seating position I really think the Neat Iota are the only viable solution!

The OP needs to find speakers that are not fussy with placement ie Neat Iota, Menuet, maybe Rega as they can be used right up to the wall.

The OP will need to home demo too, those room acoustics are very challenging so speakers will need to selected very carefuly!

 

[matthewpiano]

The Dalis are a good call if you like a natural sound which breathes. They make wonderful speakers IMO.

 

[atticus]

I would go for active speakers, which tend to be less fussy than passives about placement and funny-shaped rooms.

 

[John Duncan]

That's a very tricky spot to place speakers, certainly. I'd rule out DB1is for starters, I tried them in alcoves like that and they sounded appalling, frankly. Whilst I STILL haven't heard them, I think the Neat Iotas would be a very good proposition: the alcoves will boost their relative lack of bass response and they meet your 'horizontal' requirement. A couple of studio monitor wedges would also help angle them down a bit.

Atticus' suggestion of actives may also be a good idea, particularly pro monitor style ones like Dynaudio and Genelec - not only do they make the amp problem go away, studio style ones have trim switches to tune bass response, which will be the tricky thing to get right with your placement requirements.

Whichever direction you go, the fact that you're putting them in one enormous bass trap means that home audition is a must.

 

[davedotco]

That's a very tricky spot to place speakers, certainly. I'd rule out DB1is for starters, I tried them in alcoves like that and they sounded appalling, frankly. Whilst I STILL haven't heard them, I think the Neat Iotas would be a very good proposition: the alcoves will boost their relative lack of bass response and they meet your 'horizontal' requirement. A couple of studio monitor wedges would also help angle them down a bit. Atticus' suggestion of actives may also be a good idea, particularly pro monitor style ones like Dynaudio and Genelec - not only do they make the amp problem go away, studio style ones have trim switches to tune bass response, which will be the tricky thing to get right with your placement requirements. Whichever direction you go, the fact that you're putting them in one enormous bass trap means that home audition is a must.

With those cupboards at the bottom you are more likely to get a boom box effect than anything and placing a turntable on the top of the cupboard is a horrifying proposition, i'm just glad i am not the dealer having to sort it out.

The best advice I can think of, is to look for a simpler, less capable system, one that does the basics right without trying to do too much. Keeping the bass under control is going to be critical, everything I have read suggest the Iotas, not heard them but I have a lot of time for Neat products

A turntable with the best possible isolation is a must, as is some form of isolation platform or shelf, not sure what to suggest here I am somwhat out of date in these areas.

Something like a Creek Evolution amplifier to hold it all together would be my choice to partner the Iotas, low on bling but it gets the basics right in difficult situations like little else. Good plug in phono stage keeps everything very simple.

The huge advantage of a system like this is that it does not try and do too much, a 'better' system might attempt to do much more but be heavily compromised by the room and the setup, keep it simple, would for me be the key.