Dynaudio Excite X14: Listening Fatigue?

[Timo]

I am currently away from the UK, and had a chance to listen Dynaudio's Excite X14 -- in a combo with Cambridge Audio's CXA80 and CXN (a combination that wouldn't be possible at Richer Sounds).

We were very impressed with the X14 -- very clean sound, great mid-range, and very impressive high end. We put in Allegri's Miserere, and thought the high notes were presented in a very clean manner. Bass -- also pretty decent considering the small cabinet.

With the X14, the wow effect was much greater than the experience with KEF's LS50 and Audio Monitor's Gold 50. I was rather surprised that the KEFs left us underwhelmed considering the reviews they receive. The Gold 50 were certainly enjoyable to listen to -- but (compared to Dynaudio) they felt "conservative", and less fun and excitement.

However, when reading about listening fatigue, I wonder whether the Dynaudios might be prone to this -- overly bright? Did the Dynaudios impress in an audio situation but would be exhausting (rather than exciting) in the long run? We primarily listen to classical music, and occassionaly jazz; but no pop or electronic music.

Any experience with the Dynaudio Excite X14 here in the Forum? I am about to start my first proper hifi system, and worried that I don't understand hifi well enough to make well informed decisions. (In terms of amplicification, Arcam, Audiolab and Cambridge Audio are on my shortlist for audition.)

Many thanks!!

 

[lpv]

Hi Timo and welcome to the forum... so you're looking for neutral, no fatigue system that play well recordings of a real instruments? what's your budget? room? source?

 

[rainsoothe]

Hi. I haven't heard them, but all reviews of the X14 say they're smooth. Whf says even that they may be too polite. So it must be the cxa 80. And, maybe, also the speaker wire.

 

[Alberich]

Your post reads that you haven't actually experienced listening fatigue from the Dynaudio's, but are just concerned of possible future fatigue?

As a listener of mainly classical I can vouch for Dynaudio's generally not being a fatiguing speaker.
On the contrary.
Their treble performance with violins and soprano is generally very refined.
Imo the X14's are a sound choice.

If you do encounter a problem it might be in the bass department. Dyn's go low for their size so allow for them to be a couple of feet away from the wall.
I would suggest a home demo but not an option judging by your post.

 

[gasolin]

Have no listening fattigue with my Dynaudio Emit M10 some say marantz can be a bright speaker, i had a very soft upper midrange,lower treble with my nad C326BEE amp and wireworld luna 7 so i remembered marantz amp often a little to bright, seemed a very good match, now the upper midrange,lower treble wasn't to unnatural soft

Cambridge amps can sound a little to bright as well as marantz, if you don't use bright cable,cdplayer, dac they shouldn't sound to bright as they might do accord the stereophile frequency response

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-excite-x14-loudspeaker-measurements#EOTIjAdlQrASv4MC.97

 

[Timo]

Thanks for the welcome ipv!! I really enjoy the forum, and have started to read lots of threads (new and old), plus of course lots of reviews. My wife isn't happy, and complains about this new obsession. But it's really difficult to stop searching and reading, isn't it?

Our lounge and dining room has a fairly good size -- in terms of layout, box-standard Englisb semi-detached but we knocked down the wall between lounge and dining room. It is a big space, but the X14 (despite their small size) seem reasonably powerful. Also, to me, their size appeals. Probably we need to put them in an outer corner (next to a fireplace). It's all a bit tight -- so small speakers might be easier to position. The other side of the lounge fireplace (the better spot for hifi I think) is occupied by my wife's piano, and there is no chance that she allows me moving her piano to the window...

Overall the X14 scored quite well on my tick list -- also the price with £800 is about right. For better options though I would be prepared to push the budget a bit. I am in a good negotiation position, with my wife's recent piano purchase -- reciprocity! ;o)

Any ideas for alternatives?

In any case, it is very comforting to read the postings suggesting that the X14 shouldn't be prone to listening fatigue. Thanks a lot everybody!

Are the X14 best described as "neutral"? Neutral should work well with Arcam A19 or A29, right? And Arcams with their mature sound should, in principle, work well for classical music (instrumental and vocal) -- or am I off track here? So far I didn't have a chance to do direct amplifier comparisons under ceteris paribus conditions -- but focussed on speakers. If one went for Arcam, when would one move up from A19 to A29? Only when more power is needed? Or does the sound change signifcantly? Reviews suggest the X14 are easy to drive.

Many thanks!

 

[radiorog]

Thanks for the welcome ipv!! I really enjoy the forum, and have started to read lots of threads (new and old), plus of course lots of reviews. My wife isn't happy, and complains about this new obsession. But it's really difficult to stop searching and reading, isn't it?

Our lounge and dining room has a fairly good size -- in terms of layout, box-standard Englisb semi-detached but we knocked down the wall between lounge and dining room. It is a big space, but the X14 (despite their small size) seem reasonably powerful. Also, to me, their size appeals. Probably we need to put them in an outer corner (next to a fireplace). It's all a bit tight -- so small speakers might be easier to position. The other side of the lounge fireplace (the better spot for hifi I think) is occupied by my wife's piano, and there is no chance that she allows me moving her piano to the window...

Overall the X14 scored quite well on my tick list -- also the price with £800 is about right. For better options though I would be prepared to push the budget a bit. I am in a good negotiation position, with my wife's recent piano purchase -- reciprocity! ;o)

Any ideas for alternatives?

In any case, it is very comforting to read the postings suggesting that the X14 shouldn't be prone to listening fatigue. Thanks a lot everybody!

Are the X14 best described as "neutral"? Neutral should work well with Arcam A19 or A29, right? And Arcams with their mature sound should, in principle, work well for classical music (instrumental and vocal) -- or am I off track here? So far I didn't have a chance to do direct amplifier comparisons under ceteris paribus conditions -- but focussed on speakers. If one went for Arcam, when would one move up from A19 to A29? Only when more power is needed? Or does the sound change signifcantly? Reviews suggest the X14 are easy to drive.

Many thanks!

My dyns did not work well with the a19. I would expect the emit 20 and x14 to be similar due to all being 4ohm speakers. Avoid this combination, it won't work, there will be no bass. The a29 I expect would work better.more power.

 

[lpv]

if you like that Dynaudio sound then pay a visit in pro audio shop and ask for Dynaudio Lyd.. they do 3 different models: 5, 7 & 8.. these are active speakers ( built in amps) so all you need is a pre amp.. you did not say what's your source? vinyl? cd? pc? streaming? hdd?

also, there's Dynaudio Xeo 2 active speakers with built in dac/ pre amp for £1000.. it's a complete system ( well, you still need to add source).. but hey, sound is coming from Xeo 2 is great... these can go on a wall brackets so go out off the way..

 

[JamesMellor]

There's also the X14a , the active version with two 50 watt amps four different finishes , £1200 , the options are almost limitless.

James

 

[rainsoothe]

Well, you should audition, of course. I mean, as I said, I'd take Arcam over Cambridge Audio anyday. But if you're considering the A19 with the X14, audition the combo, it might sound too fat in the bass.

However, since you're looking at a source as well, why not tempt you into joining the darkside? Audition a Naim Unitilite (maybe you can even find a good deal on an ex-dem one). It's really worth it, trust me. If that's too steep, Unitiqute 2 is also worth a consideration, but a Unitilite will give you everything (minus phonostage), and it has more power, hence saving you the trouble of upgrading the UQ2 with a Nap100 at a later stage.

 

[BigH]

I would test them with some jazz, if you can live with the high hat cymbals then you should be ok, I tries the Dyn X12s and could pt up with them, after about 20 mins had to turn off, the Kef LS50s were fine, if a bit on the warm side. Tested with the Marantz Pearl Lite cdp and amp. Also tested with the AVI 9RSS which were far better, they are neutral I would say but more clarity. Maybe worth giving the active Dyns a try.

 

[Timo]

What's your source? vinyl? cd? pc? streaming? hdd?

CD, and also increasingly streaming, especially Spotify. At the moment, though, I am increasingly uncertain about main source in the future. I wonder whether I should drop CD player, rip all my CDs (will take some time though), and go for a wireless streamer like Bluesound Node. Certain more convenient (after all the ripping is done), though I am not sure about the listening experience. Will need to audition, but reviews for Bluesound are great. Any experience here? Does Bluesond with lossless files match a good CD player like Arcam's CDS27?

Back to the speakers, I was surprised that X14 might have too much bass. Would have thought, this would be the least likely weakness, since the X14 have small cabinets. I can see that cymbals could be an issue. They pushed the C6 in Alegri's Miserere a lot. We liked the clarity, but it might be overkill with cymbals.

And thanks for pointing me to all-in-one Naim! It does sound attractive -- reviews are great. But I wonder about tweaking the system in the future -- i.e. upgrades. But on the other side, if it's great, no need for upgrades... ;-)

Thanks to all!!

 

[gasolin]

According to stereophiles frequency response it might sound to brigth with less bass or has the slightly clearer top because of the enhanced bass

You might wanna try an amp that can control the bass better, more precision,tighter bass,better control, i feel that an amp that is good at controling the bass, the bass might not seem as boomy,muddy as a lower quality amp that can't control the bass

 

[Rimse]

That is correct.Dynaudio simply showing what is wrong with the rest of the system amp or source.

 

[lpv]

i feel that an amp that is good at controling the bass, the bass might not seem as boomy,muddy as a lower quality amp that can't control the bass

precisely and I think good and controled bass is easier to achieve in Dynaudio's active Xeo or Lyd range of speakers then in passive Exicte or Emit with Arcam, Naim or whatever.

 

[gasolin]

I use isoacosutsics stands, like the ones dynaudio had with there older studio monitors, they do make a difference and i feel my amp Marntz PM8005 controls the bass very good

 

[rainsoothe]

What's your source? vinyl? cd? pc? streaming? hdd?

CD, and also increasingly streaming, especially Spotify. At the moment, though, I am increasingly uncertain about main source in the future. I wonder whether I should drop CD player, rip all my CDs (will take some time though), and go for a wireless streamer like Bluesound Node. Certain more convenient (after all the ripping is done), though I am not sure about the listening experience. Will need to audition, but reviews for Bluesound are great. Any experience here? Does Bluesond with lossless files match a good CD player like Arcam's CDS27?

Back to the speakers, I was surprised that X14 might have too much bass. Would have thought, this would be the least likely weakness, since the X14 have small cabinets. I can see that cymbals could be an issue. They pushed the C6 in Alegri's Miserere a lot. We liked the clarity, but it might be overkill with cymbals. 

And thanks for pointing me to all-in-one Naim! It does sound attractive -- reviews are great. But I wonder about tweaking the system in the future -- i.e. upgrades. But on the other side, if it's great, no need for upgrades... ;-)

Thanks to all!!

 

It does sound great (to me at least), and it has one upgrade option - that of a power amp (which you can use on it's own or in bi-amp config). So it has some flexibility, but not enough to send you down the Naim rabbithole.

And hey, 1box solutions keep everything neat

 

[gowiththeflow]

To get the best match with amplification, specifically tuned to get the best out of the X14, I'd ignore any suggestions of various amps and follow the above advise and consider the active version of the X14, the X14a...or the wireless and active Xeo 4 (which is based on the X14).

The X14a will still require a pre-amp, or a DAC with pre-amp capability.

The Xeo 4 only needs the Xeo Hub, or the Xeo Connect (with built-in streaming), to which your source inputs are connected. With the Xeo, there's an added bonus that no cables will need to be run to the speakers, other than their power chords.

If either the X14a or Xeo 4 solution isn't to your taste, then look at the passive option of X14 and a suitable amp. However, you are likely to be pleasantly surprised, particularly with the Xeo 4, and could save a significant amount of money on buying an amplifier that you don't really need, plus have less tin boxes and cables cluttering up your living room.

One suggested high quality and economical solution for streaming, is to combine a Xeo 4 + Hub with the Auralic Aries Mini. Other source components (CD, vinyl etc,) can be connected to this set up, via the Xeo Hub.

z

 

[James7]

I own the Xeo 3, the predecessor to the Xeo 4 and essentially a wireless, active version of the Excite 14. I have never found them fatiguing - fairly revealing to be sure, but smooth enough to not be fatiguing. For their size they are surprisingly strong in the bass and I generally use mine with the foam bungs in which means a slightly more agile bass when placed, as mine are, fairly near the rear wall.

You mention ripping all your CDs and going for something like a Bluesound Node. I have an Auralic Aries Mini with a built in SSD drive, which means I don't need to use a NAS. An excellent alternative to the Bluesound, which I am sure is very good too from what I hear - worth investigating if you head down that route.

 

[Blackdawn]

When you factor in the price of some decent speaker stands and filler you might find floorstanders better for the cost. What about the Wharfedale Reva 4 as an alternative to bookshelfs?

 

[BigH]

When you factor in the price of some decent speaker stands and filler you might find floorstanders better for the cost. What about the Wharfedale Reva 4 as an alternative to bookshelfs?

I don't agree you can get decent speker stands for under £100, even Custom Design are about £90.

If you look at PMC that do bookshelf and floorstanders of the same speaker the floorstands are double the price £1k v £2k.

Wharfedale Reva 4 are £1,300 so hardly the same price as the Dyns, you would need an amp as well.

 

[Blackdawn]

Id like to hear a comparison of the two but anyway as for stands - I wouldn't particularly want to put my £800 speakers on some cheap stands. The Dynaudios are quite deep. I'd be looking at spending £200-£300 and it you factor in atabites or similar you are over £1000. Plus floorstanders look better than oil rigs in the room and take up the same space. The floorstanders are generally easier to drive so you can spend less on an amp to get the same vol, better low Hz, so plenty of benefits. Just suggesting to the op as they may not have thought of floorstanders as an option.

 

[rainsoothe]

Floorstanders can overpower a small room, though. It's a question of (home) trial and error, really

 

[Timo]

The route of active speakers is indeed intriguing. I have to admit I haven't looked into this much, as I (apparently wrongly) assumed that "separates" are the "proper" way: leave speakers to the "speaker guys" from Dynaudio, KEF, Monitor Audio etc, whilst trusting the amplifier and DAC experts from Arcam, Audiolab, Roksan etc to do their job well. Also, reviews and forums talk a lot about, for instance, the special "Arcam sound" suggesting that long-standing experience in cutting-edge amplifier making matters... So putting all into 2 "boxes" wasn't really on my radar.

But it makes sense that pairing is easier if the "speaker guys" put in an amplifier and DAC that works with their speaker. Reviews suggests Dynaudio did a good job with Xeo 4! Reviews though still leave me puzzled. Yes, they confirm that Dynaudio did a pretty good job, but they don't address whether one could achieve better results through the "conventional route" and "smart" pairing of passive speakers (here, X14 given that Xeo 4 seems broadly comparable to Excite's smallest model), "external" amplifier and DAC.

I will certainly try to audition Xeo 4. However, for the purpose of comparison, which amplifiers are thought to work well with Dynaudio's X14? Have the ability to provide tight bass control but also the capacity to control the X14’s treble? (Something CA amplifiers seem to struggle with.) One has to cough up about £1,550 for a pair of Xeo 4 and hub, whilst a pair of X14 brings you down by £800. Amplifier suggesstions (between £600 and £1000) for passive route with X14?

Cheers!

 

[gowiththeflow]

....... Reviews suggests Dynaudio did a good job with Xeo 4! Reviews though still leave me puzzled. Yes, they confirm that Dynaudio did a pretty good job, but they don't address whether one could achieve better results through the "conventional route" and "smart" pairing of passive speakers (here, X14 given that Xeo 4 seems broadly comparable to Excite's smallest model), "external" amplifier and DAC.

The Xeo 4, like the Excite X14a, is based on the X14 and use the same drivers.

Good actives, should have the advantage over their equivalent passive versions, if designed well and not done on the cheap. The evidence is that Dynaudio have done a very good job on these, as you would expect from a reputable top brand.

Wireless actives are very new in the "audiophile", or higher sound quality market, but several well respected speaker manufacturers have recently entered this field. Mainly at much higher prices, such as Dynaudio's own Focus XD range (starting price £4000, up to nearly £9000).

Conventional (non-wireless) active speakers have been around for a long time and generally occupy the higher priced sector. Note also that studio monitors are normally active types too. There is no need to worry that there is any compromise being made, compared with using passive speakers and a separate amplifier. In the price range you are looking at, quite the reverse will be normally be the case.

.....I will certainly try to audition Xeo 4. However, for the purpose of comparison, which amplifiers are thought to work well with Dynaudio's X14? Have the ability to provide tight bass control but also the capacity to control the X14’s treble? (Something CA amplifiers seem to struggle with.) One has to cough up about £1,550 for a pair of Xeo 4 and hub, whilst a pair of X14 brings you down by £800. Amplifier suggesstions (between £600 and £1000) for passive route with X14.

Although a few amps in that price range will work well with the X14, to get the best out of them and the tightest grip, you really are looking at amps in the next price band and upwards. Amps costing between £1500 and £2500. So you are potentially looking at spending £2300 to £3300, plus the cost of stands...not forgetting the cost of a DAC, to attempt to match the performance of the £1550 Xeo 4.

Z