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Does anyone have or heard how loud AVI ADM9.1 go?

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T

the record spot

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Just wondering if anyone is thinking about answering Chebby's recent question...?
 

Viao-2008

New member
May 11, 2013
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So many replys very mixed if they are a good speaker to get or bad. They are loud thats the main thing and sure they sound as good as they look. But think you guys are right will deffo have to test them out before i get them, thank for all your replys and sorry if i have caused arguments did not think that would happen.

I current have the B&W CM8 with the Rotel RCX -1500 i thought it would blow me away (loudness) the sound does sound amazing must say and it is nearly where i want it but the base does not seem to keep up, it sounds and looks like if it could do any louder (currently clipps at vol 75, goes to 87) the base cones could not handle it as they looks like they are going to blow off, they sound like they are at there limit with my dance / house music as its quite heavy base the shop owner said If i swoped my current amp for the RC- 1580 and the RB-1582 power amplifer it would fix all my problem the base would be better and it could go louder but is this true? can you really push 5" base cones? and putting more power in them when it already does not seem to handel my current one doesint seem true? or will it?
 

Viao-2008

New member
May 11, 2013
3
0
0
So many replys very mixed if they are a good speaker to get or bad. They are loud thats the main thing and sure they sound as good as they look. But think you guys are right will deffo have to test them out before i get them, thank for all your replys and sorry if i have caused arguments did not think that would happen.

I current have the B&W CM8 with the Rotel RCX -1500 i thought it would blow me away (loudness) the sound does sound amazing must say and it is nearly where i want it but the base does not seem to keep up, it sounds and looks like if it could do any louder (currently clipps at vol 75, goes to 87) the base cones could not handle it as they looks like they are going to blow off, they sound like they are at there limit with my dance / house music as its quite heavy base the shop owner said If i swoped my current amp for the RC- 1580 and the RB-1582 power amplifer it would fix all my problem the base would be better and it could go louder but is this true? can you really push 5" base cones? and putting more power in them when it already does not seem to handel my current one doesint seem true? or will it?
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
279
0
18,890
I doubt an amplifier change will do the job unless the one you now have falls short by a long margin.

Alongside the ADMs and depending on how far you want to push your budget, shortlist the following

Mackie HR824, Event Opal, Dynaudio BM6A MkIIl and Quested S8.

There should be something in that lot to suit your budget and taste.
 

oldric_naubhoff

New member
Mar 11, 2011
23
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0
Overdose said:
I've done it for you, with a little help from Dynaudio.

If 100dBs @ 10m is proportional to 117dBs @ 1m, then the BM5Aa can manage that at peak. As I have said, the ADMs provide more headroom than the BM5As, (which I also had) and are louder, but quite how much would need to be tested. Loud enough in most cases though for sure.

Back to back, the ADM9s were obviously louder than the BM5As and stayed composed at those levels as well.
let me help you with your calculations further OD.

if what Dynaudio claims is true, i.e. 117dB peak @ 1m, it'll mean that with the amps on board (90W per driver of dynamic power) combined speaker sensitivity, by which I mean how efficient the driver tandem should be, will need to be about 97dB. now OD explain me, how is it possible for any 2-way speaker, not just active one, to achieve combined sensitivity of 97dB from drives which would most likely be 90 - 92dB efficient for the tweeter and about 86 - 88 dB efficient for the woofer? don't you think something smells fishy here regarding the specification quoted? (I'm guessing you don't but let's wait for your reply.)
 

Viao-2008

New member
May 11, 2013
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Thats what i thought @overdose i don't think it will either. Will check them out cheers.

My budget is £2500 thats what i paid for my current one and don't really want to spend anymore if possible, i'm happy with just active speakers and a sub if need be but not a huge one or something like my current set up, i know an all in one like i have may not be the best but i think maybe the speakers also is not made for dance / house music, sure they would suit someone perfect full vol with out clipping if they are playing jazz ect but not my kind of music. Its my first sound systems with high end brands and if i'm honest my old technics sound system does a better job somehow at £400 haha
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
279
0
18,890
oldric_naubhoff said:
Overdose said:
I've done it for you, with a little help from Dynaudio.

If 100dBs @ 10m is proportional to 117dBs @ 1m, then the BM5Aa can manage that at peak. As I have said, the ADMs provide more headroom than the BM5As, (which I also had) and are louder, but quite how much would need to be tested. Loud enough in most cases though for sure.

Back to back, the ADM9s were obviously louder than the BM5As and stayed composed at those levels as well.
let me help you with your calculations further OD.

if what Dynaudio claims is true, i.e. 117dB peak @ 1m
and if your statement is also close to being accurate, ie 100dB @ 10m equating to 117dB @1m, then there is every likelyhood that that the ADM9s match or exceed this figure. In fact, having heard both back to back in the same room, I know that the ADM9s surpass the Dynaudios in the volume stakes by some margin, calculator not required (hearing protection mandatory though).

When you listen to the pair you will be able to take your own measurements, until then, you will have to rely upon your theoretical knowledge.

Perhaps you might like to ask Dynaudio how they came by their measurements, they might be able to help you better understand.
 

lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
16
2
0
Overdose said:
oldric_naubhoff said:
Overdose said:
I've done it for you, with a little help from Dynaudio.

If 100dBs @ 10m is proportional to 117dBs @ 1m, then the BM5Aa can manage that at peak. As I have said, the ADMs provide more headroom than the BM5As, (which I also had) and are louder, but quite how much would need to be tested. Loud enough in most cases though for sure.

Back to back, the ADM9s were obviously louder than the BM5As and stayed composed at those levels as well.
let me help you with your calculations further OD.

if what Dynaudio claims is true, i.e. 117dB peak @ 1m
and if your statement is also close to being accurate, ie 100dB @ 10m equating to 117dB @1m, then there is every likelyhood that that the ADM9s match or exceed this figure. In fact, having heard both back to back in the same room, I know that the ADM9s surpass the Dynaudios in the volume stakes by some margin, calculator not required (hearing protection mandatory though).

When you listen to the pair you will be able to take your own measurements, until then, you will have to rely upon your theoretical knowledge.

Perhaps you might like to ask Dynaudio how they came by their measurements, they might be able to help you better understand.
Looking at the Dynaudio website, it's highly likely that Dynaudio are exagerating their maximum sound pressure levels too.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Overdose, when you did your ADM 9.1 vs BM5A loudness test, did you take any measurements with a sound pressure meter?

I will nominate an amp and speaker combination that can play in excess of 117dbs at 1 metre and therefore in excess of 100dbs at 10 metres. They will play these volumes continuously - 24 hours per day 365 days per year without clipping and without damaging the speakers. An examination of the technical specs of this amp and speaker combination will explain why they can do that. An examination of the engineering behind the amp and speaker combination will explain how they can do this. Independent laboratory tests will back up my statement that they can do this.

The amp is a Urei 6290. The speakers are EV Patrician 800's. Now Overdose, I challenge you, or anyone else to get your AVI ADM 9.1 speakers together with any amp and speaker combination that can genuinely and believeably do 117 dbs continuous without clipping and to do an extreme loudness listening test. There's a very high chance that the AVI's will be clipping at volumes well below 117 dbs and that this will be all too apparent in such a comparative demo.

Can you or anyone else explain how the AVI speakers that are about 85dbs/2.83v/1 metre efficient, that have built in amp packs that can deliver only about 80 to 100 watts continuous into 8 ohms before clipping can produce clean peak levels of 117dbs at 1 metre? The speaker efficiency isn't there. They are small conventional cones and domes. The speaker power handling isn't there - they are only small speakers with a single mid-bass cone and a single tweeter. The amplifier power transformer size isn't there. The amplifier power supply capacitance isn't there. The cooling for the class AB amplification isn't there. They have relatively small cooling fins and no cooling fan. The engineering simply isn't there for them to deliver 117 dbs.
 

RobinKidderminster

New member
May 27, 2009
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They go louder if u turn up the volume or turn up the hearing aid volume. Deaf people will find them less loud. I am really interested in the scientific analysis of loudness as I am with hottness. Never thought my microwave heated my ready meal enough but turning up the volume helped. Doh!
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
279
0
18,890
lindsayt said:
Overdose said:
oldric_naubhoff said:
Overdose said:
I've done it for you, with a little help from Dynaudio.

If 100dBs @ 10m is proportional to 117dBs @ 1m, then the BM5Aa can manage that at peak. As I have said, the ADMs provide more headroom than the BM5As, (which I also had) and are louder, but quite how much would need to be tested. Loud enough in most cases though for sure.

Back to back, the ADM9s were obviously louder than the BM5As and stayed composed at those levels as well.
let me help you with your calculations further OD.

if what Dynaudio claims is true, i.e. 117dB peak @ 1m
and if your statement is also close to being accurate, ie 100dB @ 10m equating to 117dB @1m, then there is every likelyhood that that the ADM9s match or exceed this figure. In fact, having heard both back to back in the same room, I know that the ADM9s surpass the Dynaudios in the volume stakes by some margin, calculator not required (hearing protection mandatory though).

When you listen to the pair you will be able to take your own measurements, until then, you will have to rely upon your theoretical knowledge.

Perhaps you might like to ask Dynaudio how they came by their measurements, they might be able to help you better understand.
Looking at the Dynaudio website, it's highly likely that Dynaudio are exagerating their maximum sound pressure levels too.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Overdose, when you did your ADM 9.1 vs BM5A loudness test, did you take any measurements with a sound pressure meter?

I will nominate an amp and speaker combination that can play in excess of 117dbs at 1 metre and therefore in excess of 100dbs at 10 metres. They will play these volumes continuously - 24 hours per day 365 days per year without clipping and without damaging the speakers. An examination of the technical specs of this amp and speaker combination will explain why they can do that. An examination of the engineering behind the amp and speaker combination will explain how they can do this. Independent laboratory tests will back up my statement that they can do this.

The amp is a Urei 6290. The speakers are EV Patrician 800's. Now Overdose, I challenge you, or anyone else to get your AVI ADM 9.1 speakers together with any amp and speaker combination that can genuinely and believeably do 117 dbs continuous without clipping and to do an extreme loudness listening test. There's a very high chance that the AVI's will be clipping at volumes well below 117 dbs and that this will be all too apparent in such a comparative demo.

Can you or anyone else explain how the AVI speakers that are about 85dbs/2.83v/1 metre efficient, that have built in amp packs that can deliver only about 80 to 100 watts continuous into 8 ohms before clipping can produce clean peak levels of 117dbs at 1 metre? The speaker efficiency isn't there. They are small conventional cones and domes. The speaker power handling isn't there - they are only small speakers with a single mid-bass cone and a single tweeter. The amplifier power transformer size isn't there. The amplifier power supply capacitance isn't there. The cooling for the class AB amplification isn't there. They have relatively small cooling fins and no cooling fan. The engineering simply isn't there for them to deliver 117 dbs.
I think you misunderstand my replies as actually caring about the figures.

Whilst yourself and Oldric seem to have a handle on some facts and figures, it appears to me to come from an enthusiasts perspective, much the same way as a train spotter might relay various minutae regarding technical data and serial numbers about a train, compared with say an actual train engineer/technician who would really know how it worked. You won't find your answers on the interweb, you need to do the actual work.

Apologies if you are, or have been electrical or electronic engineers yourselves, but you just don't come across as anything other than from an amateur DIY level.

If you want to test or verify the speakers, simply buy a second hand pair, test them and move them on. Job done.

The rationale that you pair can't understand how various figures are arrived at, therefore the data is flawed, could easily be seen as a lack of understanding and knowledge yourselves, ie 'if I can't do it, then it must be impossible'.

Once again, I point you to the manufacturers respective technical departments for precise info, but given the way you ask questions, I'd imagine that you'd be given short shrift.

Once again, I've had/have, both the BM5As and the ADM9s and am speaking from direct experience of listening to the two and it is this experience that I am giving to the OP.
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
279
0
18,890
RobinKidderminster said:
They go louder if u turn up the volume or turn up the hearing aid volume. Deaf people will find them less loud. I am really interested in the scientific analysis of loudness as I am with hottness. Never thought my microwave heated my ready meal enough but turning up the volume helped. Doh!
How odd.

I'm interested in Charlize Theron, but that's a different type of hotness and much more interesting.

 

The_Lhc

New member
Oct 16, 2008
1,175
1
0
Overdose said:
I'm interested in Charlize Theron, but that's a different type of hotness and much more interesting.

You know that's Scarlett Johansson right?
 

The_Lhc

New member
Oct 16, 2008
1,175
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Overdose said:
The rationale that you pair can't understand how various figures are arrived at, therefore the data is flawed, could easily be seen as a lack of understanding and knowledge yourselves, ie 'if I can't do it, then it must be impossible'.
It could, except in cases where clear mathematical reasoning has been given as to why it's not possible for the AVI speakers to perform as claimed, as has been given quite clearly at least twice in this thread.

The fact that YOU don't understand that is a lot more revealing to be honest.

Does that mean the AVIs don't sound good? No. It does mean the manufacturer is exaggerating somewhat though. There really doesn't appear to be any possible argument against that point.
 

altruistic.lemon

New member
Jul 25, 2011
64
0
0
Overdose said:
I think you misunderstand my replies as actually caring about the figures.

Whilst yourself and Oldric seem to have a handle on some facts and figures, it appears to me to come from an enthusiasts perspective, much the same way as a train spotter might relay various minutae regarding technical data and serial numbers about a train, compared with say an actual train engineer/technician who would really know how it worked. You won't find your answers on the interweb, you need to do the actual work.

Apologies if you are, or have been electrical or electronic engineers yourselves, but you just don't come across as anything other than from an amateur DIY level.

If you want to test or verify the speakers, simply buy a second hand pair, test them and move them on. Job done.

The rationale that you pair can't understand how various figures are arrived at, therefore the data is flawed, could easily be seen as a lack of understanding and knowledge yourselves, ie 'if I can't do it, then it must be impossible'.

Once again, I point you to the manufacturers respective technical departments for precise info, but given the way you ask questions, I'd imagine that you'd be given short shrift.

Once again, I've had/have, both the BM5As and the ADM9s and am speaking from direct experience of listening to the two and it is this experience that I am giving to the OP.
Gosh! Have you just come back from patronising school or something??

Seriously, these are fair questions. They may be of no interest to you, but they are for others. I'm pretty sure with those figures you'd overload the drivers quick smart and be faced with expensive repairs.

More concerning is the effect on the OP listening at high volume. You can replace drivers easily, but your ears are something else!
 

john dolan

New member
Dec 20, 2008
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AVI sell these speakers on the back of these claims of power and that they can play at 100 db at 10 metres so its reasonable for potential customers to ask for proof of their claims.

AVI site take plenty of digs at rivals products with comments like ok if you like the sound of clipping ect so cant complain when facts and figures are asked for their product.

Would of been a worthy part of the review if WHF had set them up at 10 metres and measured how loud they can go when they reviewed them.
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
279
0
18,890
The_Lhc said:
Overdose said:
The rationale that you pair can't understand how various figures are arrived at, therefore the data is flawed, could easily be seen as a lack of understanding and knowledge yourselves, ie 'if I can't do it, then it must be impossible'.
It could, except in cases where clear mathematical reasoning has been given as to why it's not possible for the AVI speakers to perform as claimed, as has been given quite clearly at least twice in this thread.

The fact that YOU don't understand that is a lot more revealing to be honest.

Does that mean the AVIs don't sound good? No. It does mean the manufacturer is exaggerating somewhat though. There really doesn't appear to be any possible argument against that point.
That really depends on the accuracy of the mathematical reasoning.

To be sure, someone could measure them for good old school objective info. Shouldn't be too difficult to achieve surely?
 

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