I use speaker grill to protect the drivers when there're guests (mainly children ) at home but I never use them for a serious auditioning. Grills muffle mid an high frequencies.
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
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ric71 said:
Not something I lose sleep - or sound quality - over in fairness. I leave the grilles on at all times on mine, although tried the 752s without theirs a couple of times for a few tracks and I'm not losing out.
Audio Maniac said:
This just proves to Chebby, that we serious listeners are a flourishing breed, and not on the edge of extinction.
Alec
Well-known member
chebby said:
Yep pretty much sums up when I have the grills off. I find there is a difference, but usually not massive. Currently listening to PMC DB1i with the grills off. The music is on shuffle, so some of it is seriously non-serious.
I've heard of speakers being voiced so that they are meant to sound their best with the grills on, but of the few speakers I've been intimately acquainted with, there is a bit of an improvement with grills off. Mind you, when I first pulled the grills off my B&W 685 my wife's immediate reaction was ooh, and moved to press the tweeter because it looks temptingly like a big button.
busb
Well-known member
My 685 tweeters bit the dust within a couple of days of me removing my grills.They definately sound better grill less,but now I just sit there listening and looking at my deformed tweeters 
( I think my four year old thought they were the 'on' button!
( I think my four year old thought they were the 'on' button!Gosh, must get into this "serious" listening........sit up straight, clean ears with dewaxing fluid. Turn off the phone, doorbell, silence the dog, carefully remove grills, check speakers are level seeing as the weight has changed and therefore the centre of gravity...........................................
Jeeees, just listen to the music, they are there to protect the cones thats it.
Jeeees, just listen to the music, they are there to protect the cones thats it.
chebby
Well-known member
Bring back proper grilles made of plywood frames and Tygan
(Or 'Vynair' !)
Pressed in tightly onto Velcro strips and almost impossible to remove without damaging the cabinet.
The tension (and strength) of those 'old school' grille cloths and the tight fit of the frames (usually held with generous amounts of Velcro or glue) prevented all but the most determined to go poking around where they shouldn't.
(Or 'Vynair' !)
Pressed in tightly onto Velcro strips and almost impossible to remove without damaging the cabinet.
The tension (and strength) of those 'old school' grille cloths and the tight fit of the frames (usually held with generous amounts of Velcro or glue) prevented all but the most determined to go poking around where they shouldn't.
Overdose
Well-known member
KiwiMoto said:My 685 tweeters bit the dust within a couple of days of me removing my grills.They definately sound better grill less,but now I just sit there listening and looking at my deformed tweeters
You could push the domes out again if you are careful, you will have to remove the driver first though.
The question is, do your speakers now sound better or worse than when the grills were on?
Always leave the grilles off my speakers as they muffle the high frequencies quite noticeably. My tweeters have an additional mesh cover, so I do wonder what they'd sound like with the tweeters fully exposed.
By the way, serious listening is what you do when you've just spent a week's net salary on a new piece of kit.
By the way, serious listening is what you do when you've just spent a week's net salary on a new piece of kit.
Sliced Bread
Well-known member
I did warn you that it was a geeky testCnoEvil said:Sliced Bread said:
Brilliant! The dimmer switch test for grilles. I truely admire the fact that you are brave enough to admit this.
It does demonstrate how big a difference they make though. I must say, I've not noticed an issue when using dimmer switches though. I know that theoretically they do, but in my room I cannot hear it. But then again the lights and mains ring are on different circuits in my house.
Sliced Bread said:I did warn you that it was a geeky test
If you come up with a geeky test for dimmer switches, let me know!
marou
Well-known member
By insisting that their grills should stay on (and making it damn hard to remove them) those thoughtful people at Harbeth have taken this decision out of my hands.
I don't know if I would go as far to say that sound 'quality' is affected, but it does change, that's for sure. My ProAc's sound far better with the grilles on, if I take them off they're just that very slight tad too bright for my liking. My 804 Nautilus' tweeter grille is meant to be there and always stays on, which is good, because testing them with some electronics they are shockingly bright!
The Monitor Audio GR20's we have are not (at least not that I can hear) affected by the grilles. Neither were dad's old Mission 704A's.
The Monitor Audio GR20's we have are not (at least not that I can hear) affected by the grilles. Neither were dad's old Mission 704A's.
i have a pair of bbc rogers ls3/5a from 1982 the grills stay on as thats
the way they were desinged to be used, so always make sure you can remove the grills without altering the sound.
the way they were desinged to be used, so always make sure you can remove the grills without altering the sound.
busb said:ID. said:
Time for an upgrade?
The tweeter was never touched, but I did upgrade to PMC DB1i in less than a year (for other reasons)
Overdose said:
Remove the drivers and you'll find they are closed backs anyway, else the bass driver would trash them!!
Use sellotape or a hoover to suck them back out again.
ETA: Grilles affect the sound from diffraction against the grill frame and if the cloth is too thick or acting as a diffraction grating. Diffraction is the main effect however, causing odd variations in treble energy as you move around the room.
MajorFubar said:
No changes in air pressure are not the same as air movement. In air movement the air particles travel from one point in space to another point in space. In air pressure the particles press up against their neighbours and then oscillate back to their own space eventually to rest at/near their starting point. The pressed up neighbours press up against their neighbours and this pressing up propagates outwards.
Air movement and air pressure do not react the same to materials in the way. You see microphones covered in material to stop air movement and cut out wind noise. Materials can do this very effectively. This material does affect the air pressure as well and hence the sound but in a miniscule way in comparison.
Having a grill reduces the number of air particle neighbours to press up against. Having a grill puts a material that gets pushed up against that reacts differently to air. This will affect what pressure fluctuation gets to your ears but in a very very minor way. As is often the case. It is the knowledge of change that affects the perception of the audio rather than the actual change in the audio.
A simple test for trying to picture pressure is to play in the bath. Try using your hand to splash the top and create high frequency waves and its difficult. Easy with your finger. The opposite is true for low frequency waves. You get to see an approximation of the mechanical situation that occurs with large and small speaker cones. Now try the same holding your fingers into the water and splash with the other hand. The fingers approximate a grill a little. You should see the pressure waves propogate outwards almost as well as without the fingers but with visible distortion as the wave navigates past the fingers.
No idea, but my BX2s look better with them off. I've not got the most expensive amp, speakers or cable in the world. My floor is wooden and the speaker layout isn't the best. Frankly, I'm not sure it'll make a jot of difference in my system/room
Yeah I know that. Tbh it was a pretty crap analogy but the best I could think of loldannycanham said:
My experience is like most folks that there is basically not much difference in SQ with or without speaker grills. However according to some audiophile magazine it mentions that the grill will affect soundstaging in partucular on the HFs but by not much.
Covenanter
Well-known member
I've had my KEF Q500s for a couple of weeks now and have loved them. Took the grilles off this afternoon and, whilst I'm one of the most sceptical people you could meet about "tweaks", this makes a fantastic difference. A veil has been lifted. I'm frankly astonished and delighted.
Chris
Chris
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