Digital and ethernet cables

[nopiano]

for pittys sake, this forum just gets worse. I edit something, nothing appears, skip to last page, suddenly I'm logged out. Maybe they need to upgrade their ethernet cables or something

That must be it, or it’s an analogue valve computer powering it!!

 

[davidf]

You step outside of your area of expertese (hi-fi) and start posting mumbo jumbo?

Ya got me - I’m not a scientist.

Are you trying to suggest that we do not know all that we need to know about electronic systems and computers? We did not discover hi-fi or computers, we invented it precisely because we do understand the science.

We did indeed invent computers, and we understand enough to keep on improving them. We also invented hi-fi equipment to reproduce music in our homes, and whilst we understand how audio reproduction works (sufficiently), I think there are aspects we can’t measure.

Contrary to your final paragraph, it is the application of scientific method that does allow you to produce an 'indistinquishable from live' reproduction. You probably do not have the space and certainly would not like the cost but technically, it is not difficult.

I’m not talking about playing some live rock CD loud enough for it to appear as though Metallica is playing in front of you, I’m talking real, natural instruments like strings and piano, that produce multiple harmonics and resonances.

But anyway, this will just go on like other threads like this - the usual point scoring and suggestive put downs. Those that are curious about cables etc can go and borrow some from their local dealer and make their own mind up. They can also save themselves a lot of bother by just enjoying their music than posting their findings on here. Unless of course they found zero difference...

 

[davedotco]

What is really crazy here is that you are almost talking real sense, sure I get that you are not a scientist as you put it, so avoid attempting to justify your subjective views with fake science, it looks silly.

The issue with measurements is an interesting one, there may be effects in the replay chain that we don't know about and don't really measure but there are things that we can do.

Null tests of various kinds can be performed so see whether a component or process has an effect on the music signal, if there is a change, then further investigations can be carried out and the 'effect' quantified and measured. In most cases the effects are tiny, way, way below audibility.

But, as I am sure you are aware, auditioning components and systems subjectively shows up differences that are often quite consistent and repeatable, why is that?

There are all kinds of reasons why this is the case, level is a big one, deliberate 'voicing' of components another and then there is the way components interact in a system and spending time listening the only really effective way of sorting out what sounds best to you. For most people this is enough, if it sounds good it is good and that is it, but an enthusiast wants more, why does it sound good? What can I do to make it sound better? Etc, etc.

Understanding a little of how hi-fi 'works' and how we interpret it helps the enthusiast sort out those things that are really making a difference and yes, that includes expectation bias and the rest. Simply listening and 'following your instincts' isn't really enough in some cases, a little understanding helps immensely.

Sorry to go on at such length, but if we can avoid the usual cable or blind testing nonsense, this is an interesting subject.

 

[Electro]

Does it really matter?

- If you hear a difference that you believe...then make a change if it gives VFM

- If you hear a difference and don't believe it....then don't make a change

- If you think it's too ridiculous to even ty...then that too is fine.

Simples.

Right; now carry on for another 85 posts. *unknw*

it’s just a debate. Carry on for as how many as you want too.........

what I reckon people should do on this forum, is set up a internet chat with 5 people or so people, and then have a proper discussion and then you don’t have to keep going round and round.......you don’t have to share numbers but can chat on WhatsApp . Do it like a conference call.

Don't they call that a mass debate . *mosking*

 

[paulkebab]

with the cable, what you might have missed on another thread is the claim that SSD's sound better than standard hard drives so that might come into the equation. I actually laughed at the suggestion but in a 'go on then give it a try' moment I did, across 6 drives and didn't hear any difference.

 

[andyjm]

We also invented hi-fi equipment to reproduce music in our homes, and whilst we understand how audio reproduction works (sufficiently), I think there are aspects we can’t measure.

While as a general statement "there are aspects we can't measure" is true for all of science, for the domestic reproduction of audio, there is nothing that we can't measure to much higher degrees of precision than human perception.

What aspects did you have in mind that we can't measure?

 

[cheeseboy]

with the cable, what you might have missed on another thread is the claim that SSD's sound better than standard hard drives so that might come into the equation. I actually laughed at the suggestion but in a 'go on then give it a try' moment I did, across 6 drives and didn't hear any difference.

yeh, that kind of rubbish is easy to disprove. For example, lets say you create a raid accross say 1 ssd, 1hdd and 1sshd. If the theory that different hard drives sound the same is true, then when you listen to a song in that set up, the song would change constantly as each different drive feeds whatever bit of information it has in to ram. But low and behold, it makes no difference. I mean, imagine in different hard drives did make things sound different. recording/Mixing would be impossible in this day and age....

 

[davedotco]

with the cable, what you might have missed on another thread is the claim that SSD's sound better than standard hard drives so that might come into the equation. I actually laughed at the suggestion but in a 'go on then give it a try' moment I did, across 6 drives and didn't hear any difference.

yeh, that kind of rubbish is easy to disprove. For example, lets say you create a raid accross say 1 ssd, 1hdd and 1sshd. If the theory that different hard drives sound the same is true, then when you listen to a song in that set up, the song would change constantly as each different drive feeds whatever bit of information it has in to ram. But low and behold, it makes no difference. I mean, imagine in different hard drives did make things sound different. recording/Mixing would be impossible in this day and age....

Same with multiple cables and dacs too, if the average hi-fi enthusiast knew what went on, they would have apoplexy.

The biggest con in hi-fi at the moment is the 'listen for yourself' and 'make up your own mind' attitude. With expectation and suggestion bias being so powerful, enthusiasts end up paying (often substantial sums) for differences that are simply not there.

Confusingly, this does not mean that you should not listen, this remains all inportant, you just need to be #woke.

 

[Native_bon]

Cable debate now just sounds like two groups of sadist, for and against trying to bring each other down.

 

[cheeseboy]

Cable debate now just sounds like two groups of sadist, for and against trying to bring each other down.

hyperbole much?

 

[grimharry]

Cable debate now just sounds like two groups of sadist, for and against trying to bring each other down.

What else would you expect with a cable debate?*biggrin*