DACless streamer

[cheeseboy]

I would always(out of paranoia) have a wired connection but in theory a wireless connection cuts out all the possible problems linked with noise from components

I'd always use a wired connection as well. Not because of paranoia, but because wireless is so unreliable. Especially as more and more people use it, the airwaves are getting very congested.

 

[Pedro]

All snake oil sellers sound the same. I'm just saying.

 

[Pedro]

Maybe the key to the streamer-DAC mistery is using a special cable. Something like...

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

but I don't think you get into what these 'esoteric reasons' are for pricier dedicated streamers. You may well be into your stuff with computers, but hi fi design is quite another matter. It may well be that the costs of the components are similar, you do pay for brands I agree, but what you are paying for in these streamers is there absolute need to be uncompromising in the pursuit of best sound quality.

please remember this is talking about a dacless streamer. A dacless streamer is just a computer. The hifi world can call it whatever it wants, but inside, it *is* a computer. This unfortunately is not a disputable thing.

A chromecast audio isn't designed to do that, neither is a sonos connect etc. When you have a revealing system you are after best possible to tie in with the quality of the system.

Ahhh, here we go, hifi lingo 101, revealing system. Again, please remember we are talking about a dacless streamer. Just because it's going to get plugged in to a dac doesn't change that it's still a computer and still falls under all the rules that a computer has to adhere to.

It depends on things like ability to deal with the jitter, electrical interfearance can have an effect. The noise in the power supply too. Isn't that why they use low noise toroidal transformers instead of noisier switching mode ones in the best streamer transports, like with CD players and amps etc. Check out the site called mono audio, article 'computer audio misconceptions'. Seems to explain a lot of it well.

That website, I'm afraid to say is pretty misinformed and generally wrong. for one they don't reference anything, it's all just an opinion. Plus he's selling stuff which should be a big warning about how biased what he is saying is. Have a look here for a more balanced approach that also cites references and tests to back up what they say http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/index.html​

cyrus stated the following on the matter and they told me ; "A digital signal is indeed a 1 and a 0, but that's not the whole story. The timing or exmaple and order of the data arriving (jitter) and the other things transmitted along with the signal (noise) are the two main drivers of differences. Ultimately, your ears will prove the difference.

ok, fair enough to the noise. We can tell if the power supply is injecting noise becasue we can hear it. If you can't hear it, it's fine. Also this constant harping on about a jitter. It's 2017, jitter really isn't an issue anymore unless you are using really really old out of date equipment. Hifi people like to use as a catch all gremlin to justify all sorts of things. Please remember that in a studio, a computer will be recording and playing back however many (8, 16, 24 etc) tracks with effects. that's 24 seperate instances of a wav file, plus effects. If things like jitter were such an issue, you would hear it on recordings etc. So to tell me that a computer that only has to pass data from a network source to a dac will have issues is pretty absurd quite frankly.

Ok well if you agree on the noise front, you are making my point for me, so not sure what the point of your long post gets to. If one has a better less noisy power supply you dont hear it. My cyrus will do that better than a chromecast audio will with components involved. The Chromecast is the size of a ice hockey puck btw, so I suspect its nigh on impossible to make an audiophile quality device that size that does the same job with a decent supply.

You say the website I referred you to is just an opinion. Frankly thats all forums are. But I think he presents lots of credible arguments about things like jitter, and timing errors and noise and how it impacts sound. It seems common sense to me. But as I say it may be one way of thinking in computers but quite another in hi fi.

Im not sure your point under a revealing system. It seems to me that if you do have one, and you go between differences in say a chromecast and a naim streamer, then they are more likely to show up differences. This is why systems are matched in quality etc.

Your first point doenst actually answer to the issue I raised against that point. It may be just a computer but as you concede on power supply, there are reasons as to how it can sound different or not and better.

Jitter can actually be heard so if you impose jitter on a system you can hear sound differences - thats the jitter. But Cyrus have their reasons, and they seem pretty sensible ones to me. I think you put it in a way to simplify it to the extent if you can think it OK in your mind, then it must be correct. In terms of good hi-fi only slight differences can make the difference between good and bad sound and Im sure this is what is going on, in these systems, unlike PC's which arent with the similar analogue perspective our ears detect.

 

[Gray]

Maybe the key to the streamer-DAC mistery is using a special cable. Something like...

Scientists don't know what / where consciousness is in the human brain. - but these cables have it.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

but what you are paying for in these streamers is there absolute need to be uncompromising in the pursuit of best sound quality.

I wanted to address this point separately as it comes up a lot. The issue is, what are you referencing this "best sound quality" against. How are you benchmarking it? Unless you have a specific end point that you are trying to achieve, with some form of benchmark to measure it against, it's just pissing in the wind really as you don't know what you are trying to gain.

Not a goid point because best is comparative to the person on their experiences, in a buying sense. So if they buy a cca and then a better streamer and the streamer is better and value for the money, they buy it. I'm trying to gain an improvement that's worth it. To me I wouldn't buy the £1700 streamer because in my system the additional £400 over my streamer is probably not worth it, it may be, but i bet the difference in sound quality is marginal, if any. But there are clear differences of my streamer to say a cca and a bluesound node 2, and a sonos connect, all of which I've tried.

If I owned my old system with more budget stuff, I'm sure the Cyrus streamer would be a waste of money. I'd have stopped at the sonos.

 

[CnoEvil]

The debate comes down to this.

1. There are people who go by what they Hear....and buy accordingly.

2. There are people who go by what they Know....and buy accordingly.

There is no point in arguing about it.

Simples

*smile*

 

[Andrewjvt]

but I don't think you get into what these 'esoteric reasons' are for pricier dedicated streamers. You may well be into your stuff with computers, but hi fi design is quite another matter. It may well be that the costs of the components are similar, you do pay for brands I agree, but what you are paying for in these streamers is there absolute need to be uncompromising in the pursuit of best sound quality.

please remember this is talking about a dacless streamer.  A dacless streamer is just a computer.  The hifi world can call it whatever it wants, but inside, it *is* a computer.  This unfortunately is not a disputable thing.

A chromecast audio isn't designed to do that, neither is a sonos connect etc. When you have a revealing system you are after best possible to tie in with the quality of the system. 

Ahhh, here we go, hifi lingo 101, revealing system.  Again, please remember we are talking about a dacless streamer.  Just because it's going to get plugged in to a dac doesn't change that it's still a computer and still falls under all the rules that a computer has to adhere to.

It depends on things like ability to deal with the jitter, electrical interfearance can have an effect. The noise in the power supply too. Isn't that why they use low noise toroidal transformers instead of noisier switching mode ones in the best streamer transports, like with CD players and amps etc. Check out the site called mono audio, article 'computer audio misconceptions'. Seems to explain a lot of it well.

 

That website, I'm afraid to say is pretty misinformed and generally wrong.  for one they don't reference anything, it's all just an opinion.  Plus he's selling stuff which should be a big warning about how biased what he is saying is.  Have a look here for a more balanced approach that also cites references and tests to back up what they say http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/index.html​

 

cyrus stated the following on the matter and they told me ; "A digital signal is indeed a 1 and a 0, but that's not the whole story. The timing or exmaple and order of the data arriving (jitter) and the other things transmitted along with the signal (noise) are the two main drivers of differences. Ultimately, your ears will prove the difference.

ok, fair enough to the noise.  We can tell if the power supply is injecting noise becasue we can hear it.  If you can't hear it, it's fine.  Also this constant harping on about a jitter.  It's 2017, jitter really isn't an issue anymore unless you are using really really old out of date equipment.  Hifi people like to use as a catch all gremlin to justify all sorts of things.
 
Please remember that in a studio, a computer will be recording and playing back however many (8, 16, 24 etc) tracks with effects.  that's 24 seperate instances of a wav file, plus effects.  If things like jitter were such an issue, you would hear it on recordings etc.  So to tell me that a computer that only has to pass data from a network source to a dac will have issues is pretty absurd quite frankly.

 

 

Ok well if you agree on the noise front, you are making my point for me, so not sure what the point of your long post gets to. If one has a better less noisy power supply you dont hear it. My cyrus will do that better than a chromecast audio will with components involved. The Chromecast is the size of a ice hockey puck btw, so I suspect its nigh on impossible to make an audiophile quality device that size that does the same job with a decent supply.

You say the website I referred you to is just an opinion. Frankly thats all forums are. But I think he presents lots of credible arguments about things like jitter, and timing errors and noise and how it impacts sound. It seems common sense to me. But as I say it may be one way of thinking in computers but quite another in hi fi. 

Im not sure your point under a revealing system. It seems to me that if you do have one, and you go between differences in say a chromecast and a naim streamer, then they are more likely to show up differences. This is why systems are matched in quality etc. 

Your first point doenst actually answer to the issue I raised against that point. It may be just a computer but as you concede on power supply, there are reasons as to how it can sound different or not and better.

Jitter can actually be heard so if you impose jitter on a system you can hear sound differences - thats the jitter. But Cyrus have their reasons, and they seem pretty sensible ones to me. I think you put it in a way to simplify it to the extent if you can think it OK in your mind, then it must be correct. In terms of good hi-fi only slight differences can make the difference between good and bad sound and Im sure this is what is going on, in these systems, unlike PC's which arent with the similar analogue perspective our ears detect. 

Jitter is eliminated by my benchmark dac is proven tested inaudible/nontracable regardless of source.

So please explain how jitter would effect my sound experience?

Also regards the difference between streamers
I bet you couldn't open them up and spot much difference between the most expensive and the cheapest. And that's not me saying there is no difference but that there ain't much difference.
But you use cost as a guide without any technical knowledge is not good advice for people to take.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Thats a good simplification cnoEvil I think, but the debate is very interesting. I think when you get down to it, the people who go on about bias and try and come up with technical reasons as to why a cheaper streamer transport can sound just as good as a more expensive transport, in a system where the more expensive one can benefit the better system, are down to human reasons. These are things that forever plague the hi fi debates. Mainly I think it comes down to jealousy because maybe they cant afford the item so they have to play it down to satisfy themselves what they have is just as good. But win the lottery and they would be the first to think a naim streamer of £1700 streamer would be better than a CCA, in a very good system, and the first to concede too the naim is better sounding because they have the experience then. But its all relative so it applies to us all.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Thats a good simplification cnoEvil I think, but the debate is very interesting. I think when you get down to it, the people who go on about bias and try and come up with technical reasons as to why a cheaper streamer transport can sound just as good as a more expensive transport, in a system where the more expensive one can benefit the better system, are down to human reasons. These are things that forever plague the hi fi debates. Mainly I think it comes down to jealousy because maybe they cant afford the item so they have to play it down to satisfy themselves what they have is just as good. But win the lottery and they would be the first to think a naim streamer of £1700 streamer would be better than a CCA, in a very good system, and the first to concede too the naim is better sounding because they have the experience then.  But its all relative so it applies to us all.

Jealousy- just listen to yourself
Please sort out your superiority complex soon as no one's impressed.
And while you at it maybe stop thinking your deluded opinion is gospel truth.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

but I don't think you get into what these 'esoteric reasons' are for pricier dedicated streamers. You may well be into your stuff with computers, but hi fi design is quite another matter. It may well be that the costs of the components are similar, you do pay for brands I agree, but what you are paying for in these streamers is there absolute need to be uncompromising in the pursuit of best sound quality.

please remember this is talking about a dacless streamer. A dacless streamer is just a computer. The hifi world can call it whatever it wants, but inside, it *is* a computer. This unfortunately is not a disputable thing.

A chromecast audio isn't designed to do that, neither is a sonos connect etc. When you have a revealing system you are after best possible to tie in with the quality of the system.

Ahhh, here we go, hifi lingo 101, revealing system. Again, please remember we are talking about a dacless streamer. Just because it's going to get plugged in to a dac doesn't change that it's still a computer and still falls under all the rules that a computer has to adhere to.

It depends on things like ability to deal with the jitter, electrical interfearance can have an effect. The noise in the power supply too. Isn't that why they use low noise toroidal transformers instead of noisier switching mode ones in the best streamer transports, like with CD players and amps etc. Check out the site called mono audio, article 'computer audio misconceptions'. Seems to explain a lot of it well.

That website, I'm afraid to say is pretty misinformed and generally wrong. for one they don't reference anything, it's all just an opinion. Plus he's selling stuff which should be a big warning about how biased what he is saying is. Have a look here for a more balanced approach that also cites references and tests to back up what they say http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/index.html​

cyrus stated the following on the matter and they told me ; "A digital signal is indeed a 1 and a 0, but that's not the whole story. The timing or exmaple and order of the data arriving (jitter) and the other things transmitted along with the signal (noise) are the two main drivers of differences. Ultimately, your ears will prove the difference.

ok, fair enough to the noise. We can tell if the power supply is injecting noise becasue we can hear it. If you can't hear it, it's fine. Also this constant harping on about a jitter. It's 2017, jitter really isn't an issue anymore unless you are using really really old out of date equipment. Hifi people like to use as a catch all gremlin to justify all sorts of things. Please remember that in a studio, a computer will be recording and playing back however many (8, 16, 24 etc) tracks with effects. that's 24 seperate instances of a wav file, plus effects. If things like jitter were such an issue, you would hear it on recordings etc. So to tell me that a computer that only has to pass data from a network source to a dac will have issues is pretty absurd quite frankly.

Ok well if you agree on the noise front, you are making my point for me, so not sure what the point of your long post gets to. If one has a better less noisy power supply you dont hear it. My cyrus will do that better than a chromecast audio will with components involved. The Chromecast is the size of a ice hockey puck btw, so I suspect its nigh on impossible to make an audiophile quality device that size that does the same job with a decent supply.

You say the website I referred you to is just an opinion. Frankly thats all forums are. But I think he presents lots of credible arguments about things like jitter, and timing errors and noise and how it impacts sound. It seems common sense to me. But as I say it may be one way of thinking in computers but quite another in hi fi.

Im not sure your point under a revealing system. It seems to me that if you do have one, and you go between differences in say a chromecast and a naim streamer, then they are more likely to show up differences. This is why systems are matched in quality etc.

Your first point doenst actually answer to the issue I raised against that point. It may be just a computer but as you concede on power supply, there are reasons as to how it can sound different or not and better.

Jitter can actually be heard so if you impose jitter on a system you can hear sound differences - thats the jitter. But Cyrus have their reasons, and they seem pretty sensible ones to me. I think you put it in a way to simplify it to the extent if you can think it OK in your mind, then it must be correct. In terms of good hi-fi only slight differences can make the difference between good and bad sound and Im sure this is what is going on, in these systems, unlike PC's which arent with the similar analogue perspective our ears detect.

Jitter is eliminated by my benchmark dac is proven tested inaudible/nontracable regardless of source.

So please explain how jitter would effect my sound experience?

Also regards the difference between streamers I bet you couldn't open them up and spot much difference between the most expensive and the cheapest. And that's not me saying there is no difference but that there ain't much difference. But you use cost as a guide without any technical knowledge is not good advice for people to take.

I use cost as a guide to quality yes. Its a very good one to use and normally rings true. But if doesnt it fails the listening test, and if the listening test is such a product is better than previous, then its down to value. And value is very much down to the individual and dependent on lots of things too. Advising someone on technical knowledge that can be stated by one person, then contradicted by another, is not the best way. Listening and own judgement always is.

I suspect you havent tried a range of streamer if you are of the view they are all the same, or your system does not benefit any other. These are the two biggest reasons in my opinion as to how someones view is then coloured. You are probably sticking on the manufacturers statement about jitter, fair enough maybe, but as we have already clarified not one thing leads to a better sounding streamer transport over another. Its multi-factorial and not easy to gauge.

I doubt anyone on here could spot all the differences inside and in the circuit design that make one streamer what it is, or power supply, or casing etc.

 

[Andrewjvt]

but I don't think you get into what these 'esoteric reasons' are for pricier dedicated streamers. You may well be into your stuff with computers, but hi fi design is quite another matter. It may well be that the costs of the components are similar, you do pay for brands I agree, but what you are paying for in these streamers is there absolute need to be uncompromising in the pursuit of best sound quality.

please remember this is talking about a dacless streamer.  A dacless streamer is just a computer.  The hifi world can call it whatever it wants, but inside, it *is* a computer.  This unfortunately is not a disputable thing.

A chromecast audio isn't designed to do that, neither is a sonos connect etc. When you have a revealing system you are after best possible to tie in with the quality of the system. 

Ahhh, here we go, hifi lingo 101, revealing system.  Again, please remember we are talking about a dacless streamer.  Just because it's going to get plugged in to a dac doesn't change that it's still a computer and still falls under all the rules that a computer has to adhere to.

It depends on things like ability to deal with the jitter, electrical interfearance can have an effect. The noise in the power supply too. Isn't that why they use low noise toroidal transformers instead of noisier switching mode ones in the best streamer transports, like with CD players and amps etc. Check out the site called mono audio, article 'computer audio misconceptions'. Seems to explain a lot of it well.

 

That website, I'm afraid to say is pretty misinformed and generally wrong.  for one they don't reference anything, it's all just an opinion.  Plus he's selling stuff which should be a big warning about how biased what he is saying is.  Have a look here for a more balanced approach that also cites references and tests to back up what they say http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/index.html​

 

cyrus stated the following on the matter and they told me ; "A digital signal is indeed a 1 and a 0, but that's not the whole story. The timing or exmaple and order of the data arriving (jitter) and the other things transmitted along with the signal (noise) are the two main drivers of differences. Ultimately, your ears will prove the difference.

ok, fair enough to the noise.  We can tell if the power supply is injecting noise becasue we can hear it.  If you can't hear it, it's fine.  Also this constant harping on about a jitter.  It's 2017, jitter really isn't an issue anymore unless you are using really really old out of date equipment.  Hifi people like to use as a catch all gremlin to justify all sorts of things.
 
Please remember that in a studio, a computer will be recording and playing back however many (8, 16, 24 etc) tracks with effects.  that's 24 seperate instances of a wav file, plus effects.  If things like jitter were such an issue, you would hear it on recordings etc.  So to tell me that a computer that only has to pass data from a network source to a dac will have issues is pretty absurd quite frankly.

 

 

Ok well if you agree on the noise front, you are making my point for me, so not sure what the point of your long post gets to. If one has a better less noisy power supply you dont hear it. My cyrus will do that better than a chromecast audio will with components involved. The Chromecast is the size of a ice hockey puck btw, so I suspect its nigh on impossible to make an audiophile quality device that size that does the same job with a decent supply.

You say the website I referred you to is just an opinion. Frankly thats all forums are. But I think he presents lots of credible arguments about things like jitter, and timing errors and noise and how it impacts sound. It seems common sense to me. But as I say it may be one way of thinking in computers but quite another in hi fi. 

Im not sure your point under a revealing system. It seems to me that if you do have one, and you go between differences in say a chromecast and a naim streamer, then they are more likely to show up differences. This is why systems are matched in quality etc. 

Your first point doenst actually answer to the issue I raised against that point. It may be just a computer but as you concede on power supply, there are reasons as to how it can sound different or not and better.

Jitter can actually be heard so if you impose jitter on a system you can hear sound differences - thats the jitter. But Cyrus have their reasons, and they seem pretty sensible ones to me. I think you put it in a way to simplify it to the extent if you can think it OK in your mind, then it must be correct. In terms of good hi-fi only slight differences can make the difference between good and bad sound and Im sure this is what is going on, in these systems, unlike PC's which arent with the similar analogue perspective our ears detect. 

Jitter is eliminated by my benchmark dac is proven tested inaudible/nontracable regardless of source.

So please explain how jitter would effect my sound experience?

Also regards the difference between streamers I bet you couldn't open them up and spot much difference between the most expensive and the cheapest. And that's not me saying there is no difference but that there ain't much difference. But you use cost as a guide without any technical knowledge is not good advice for people to take.

 

I use cost as a guide to quality yes. Its a very good one to use and normally rings true. But if doesnt it fails the listening test, and if the listening test is such a product is better than previous, then its down to value. And value is very much down to the individual and dependent on lots of things too. Advising someone on technical knowledge that can be stated by one person, then contradicted by another, is not the best way. Listening and own judgement always is. 

I suspect you havent tried a range of streamer if you are of the view they are all the same, or your system does not benefit any other. These are the two biggest reasons in my opinion as to how someones view is then coloured. You are probably sticking on the manufacturers statement about jitter, fair enough maybe, but as we have already clarified not one thing leads to a better sounding streamer transport over another. Its multi-factorial and not easy to gauge. 

I doubt anyone on here could spot all the differences inside and in the circuit design that make one streamer what it is, or power supply, or casing etc.

There are many on here including myself with computer hardware/software qualifications/experience that can easily do this.

Gazzip has built his own hi end spec streamer and he is an architect

 

[CnoEvil]

Thats a good simplification cnoEvil I think, but the debate is very interesting.

I thought so...at first.

After nearly 17k posts, less so.

In all that time, very (very) few have changed their position.

I'm always happy to discuss my findings.....but arguing about them is pointless (and I've done more than my fair share of defending my position). I now mostly stay clear.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Thats a good simplification cnoEvil I think, but the debate is very interesting. I think when you get down to it, the people who go on about bias and try and come up with technical reasons as to why a cheaper streamer transport can sound just as good as a more expensive transport, in a system where the more expensive one can benefit the better system, are down to human reasons. These are things that forever plague the hi fi debates. Mainly I think it comes down to jealousy because maybe they cant afford the item so they have to play it down to satisfy themselves what they have is just as good. But win the lottery and they would be the first to think a naim streamer of £1700 streamer would be better than a CCA, in a very good system, and the first to concede too the naim is better sounding because they have the experience then. But its all relative so it applies to us all.

Jealousy- just listen to yourself Please sort out your superiority complex soon as no one's impressed. And while you at it maybe stop thinking your deluded opinion is gospel truth.

I made it very clear that it's all relative to different people systems, me included, so there is no superiority complex here. Just hard cold reality. Sometimes people just don't like to hear it and take offence where none intended.

I think my view is an opinion, there is no gospel in it. Why don't you answer to the issue, if you are really debating this?

 

[nopiano]

The debate comes down to this.

1. There are people who go by what they Hear....and buy accordingly.

2. There are people who go by what they Know....and buy accordingly.

There is no point in arguing about it.

Simples

*smile*

That is a pretty good analysis, if I may say so. I think I'm a bit weird as I am curious about both, probably because I know gear that doesn't measure well but sounds wonderful - for example, some tubed/valve gear - and some that measures great but sounds dreadful!

I suppose I'm most persuaded by stuff that measures well AND sounds great.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Thats a good simplification cnoEvil I think, but the debate is very interesting.

I thought so...at first.

After nearly 17k posts, less so.

In all that time, very (very) few have changed their position.

I'm always happy to discuss my findings.....but arguing about them is pointless (and I've done more than my fair share of defending my position). I now mostly stay clear.

i agree with a lot of what you say cnoevil as I think you think outside the box, come across as someone who is intelligent, and balance their judgements, and like me, think on experiences. Also you are balanced enough to realise hi fi is about accepting its often very complicated technically, so it's hard to predict. When you raise debates with some people they often just get upset for no reason, and when you really understand a bit more, you see their motivations. But where you are debating with people who haven't tried different devices, or their systems don't reveal it, it takes a certain kind of person to admit everything has its shortcomings or has a certain standard, against other systems. I'd be the first to admit that of my system against a better one of better quality, but a lot in hi fi is like ones driving. It's always brilliant and can't be bettered. Truth is nobodies hi fi is perfect. I often think there are lots of people like this in hi fi. That's probably why they are on forums.

 

[CnoEvil]

That is a pretty good analysis, if I may say so. I think I'm a bit weird as I am curious about both, probably because I know gear that doesn't measure well but sounds wonderful - for example, some tubed/valve gear - and some that measures great but sounds dreadful!

I suppose I'm most persuaded by stuff that measures well AND sounds great.

As you know, there is often a correlation between what measures well and what sounds great.....but I suspect that if you heard something that sounded sublime, you wouldn't be put off if it measured poorly....Audio Note springs to mind.

IMO. Going by what you hear, with an eye to the measurements, is not a bad way to go. The secret is listening to as much as possible, thus building up wide ranging, personal knowledge/reference points.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

The only problem with your two way analysis in previous post though, is that those that profess to go by what they know, aren't doing so, if by listening they find it's better. But I'd be going by both even with a rudimentary understanding of technicalities. And in hi fi rarely can you predict on technicalities how something sounds. They aren't going by what's better, they would be going by an arbitrary understanding around technicalities and knowledge that isn't founded. So this idea of going by sound first and foremost is so much better. If you didn't listen to a streamer, as it seems like the Andrew guy, because of what you believe to be the case, it would be sad if you are into sound quality, that you didn't listen trial the device. The reason being you are missing out. That's why I don't get these people, it's like an inflexible attitude to something for the sake of it, where there is often no experience of other products. I mean for goodness sake just go out and trial it and see if only being inquisitive. But i suspect these people would still find a reason, even if they trialled it and it was better to them, to say it isn't. His comment to say I'm being superior convinces me even more that's it's an issue with this type of person that believes 'nothing can be better than what I have' , rather than looking at the hi fi itself and realising stuff is better than other stuff.

 

[newlash09]

As per reviews sounds superb , right up there with 15000 dollar dac's and sounds almost the same when fed by a pc, as compared to a streamer + usb purifier + reclocker feeding into the schiit yggdrassil. Maybe that is what DAC's should be designed like. And just goes for USD 2300. Just my 2 cents...

 

[steve_1979]

The debate comes down to this.

1. There are people who go by what they Hear....and buy accordingly.

2. There are people who go by what they Know....and buy accordingly.

There is no point in arguing about it.

Simples

*smile*

Hi Cno.

Haven't we been here once or twice before.

 

[CnoEvil]

The debate comes down to this.

1. There are people who go by what they Hear....and buy accordingly.

2. There are people who go by what they Know....and buy accordingly.

There is no point in arguing about it.

Simples

*smile*

Hi Cno.

Haven't we been here once or twice before.

Only once or twice. *unknw*

 

[steve_1979]

The debate comes down to this.

1. There are people who go by what they Hear....and buy accordingly.

2. There are people who go by what they Know....and buy accordingly.

There is no point in arguing about it.

Simples

*smile*

Hi Cno.

Haven't we been here once or twice before.

Only once or twice. *unknw*

Well maybe a few more than that.

This forum software won't let me write mathematical '10 to the power' numbers that enable me to express how many times it actually feels like.

 

[CnoEvil]

Well maybe a few more than that.

This forum software won't let me write mathematical '10 to the power' numbers that enable me to express how many times it actually feels like.

At some point, you will eventually realize that I'm actually right....but until then....it's "as you were".

*diablo* *drinks*

 

[steve_1979]

Well maybe a few more than that.

This forum software won't let me write mathematical '10 to the power' numbers that enable me to express how many times it actually feels like.

At some point, you will eventually realize that I'm actually right....but until then....it's "as you were".

*diablo* *drinks*

To be fair I do think that you have a point.

The wrong one, but it is a point nonethless. *drinks*

 

[CnoEvil]

To be fair I do think that you have a point.

The wrong one, but it is a point nonethless. *drinks*

FFS! *nea*