Cyrus with a slightly muddled mid-range

[Anonymous]

What CD transports did you compare, were they about the same price by any chance. I`m talking about his Sony laser VS high end Monolithic triple beam Laser Assembly found in a Cyrus CD transport.

I've mainly compared Naim, Marantz, Sony and PC DVD/CD readers.

BTW when I rip a CD on a computer they always come off the CD the same. I mean bit perfect. Unless a CD player has severe tracking errors the data from and CD reader will be the same.

Now I know you'll be telling me the data from a £5000 player will be 'better' than from a £15 DVD/CD player will be better, but frankly it won't be, it will be exactly the same. In fact my PC drive can read a CD at 40x speed with no errors - and DVDs, so intrinsically it's a better drive.

So given that the digital data is exactly the same (and it is, according to a long discussion and series of read tests on DIYAudio), why would the transport make any difference? Well - the only other variable is timing, or more specifically, timing jitter. This is why I have a DAC that re-times the incoming data to it's own digital clock, and in fact I can hook up the £115 UltraMatch to a precision Master Clock to make it even better.

So I'm sorry guys, but digital data is data - pure and simple, and unless you care to re-write the laws of physics and principles of mathematics an error free read of a CD will always be the same (although better on a PC because ripping allows the reader to have a number of passes).

TBH the transport and DAC quality are largely irrelevant to todays appalling mastering of the CD.

Hi globs, Very enjoyable and interesting post. Can I pick your brains on the subject of jitter? As you can see from my sig I have a Dacmagic which up samples, I think. I can't ditect any jitter, what would it sound like? sounds great to me. I know I have very good hearing and usually detect anything out of place straight away. Is jitter hyped up to sell more expensive DACs? Cheers The Limey

 

[Anonymous]

Hi globs, Very enjoyable and interesting post. Can I pick your brains on the subject of jitter? As you can see from my sig I have a Dacmagic which up samples, I think. I can't ditect any jitter, what would it sound like? sounds great to me. I know I have very good hearing and usually detect anything out of place straight away. Is jitter hyped up to sell more expensive DACs? Cheers The Limey

Cheers!

I think the DACMagic has some de-jitter stuff inside anyway - so you effectively have that for free. Jitter can affect audio (high frequencies in fact) because at high frequencies there are very few samples to re-create the correct waveform with. The Nyquist sampling rate theorum is mathematical and requires a very definite timebase, when a new digital value arrives at slightly the wrong time its effective value is changed/wrong - hence you get distortion in the higher frequencies.

Jitter has a certain amount of hype but the effect is real and cheap stuff (The UltraMatch is £115) does deal with it!

 

[Anonymous]

Many thanks for the reply! All good stuff. P.s. Nice to see your using a sensible speaker cable. I like the 322 strand OFC speaker cable. £5 for ten meters don't you know. you get a whole 322 stands of copper for that.. keep up the informative posts. enjoyable reading

 

[matthewpiano]

Sorry but the truth is you dont have a full cyrus system so it does not sound like a cyrus system. A cd transport makes a massive amount of change to the sound and needs a DAC that is matched to work with it. Cyrus design all their stuff to work with other cyrus parts and sony is a joke as far as hifi goes.

The OP's ES-series Sony CD player is far from being 'a joke', and at least it will read every CD instead of being picky like Cyrus' awful slot loaders. Sony may not be a serious hi-fi player now, but they have made some stunning kit in the past and in terms of build quality and reliability some of those ES components are far better than the Cyrus stuff.

As already said, this is more than likely down to a quality system revealing poor recordings and poor masterings for what they are.

 

[Frank Harvey]

@marmite

Okay, let's downgrade "quite random" to "inconsistent".

I didn't say that 'fancy feet' don't have any effect (their effect varies depending on the product), but in the case of the Cyrus, they do the job. I think the Cyrus boxes would look a bit silly with huge whacking great feet on them anyway.

CD draws have been a bug bear of mine for years. I've never understood why quality CD players have rickety draws that look like they belong in a £20 supermarket DVD player. But it's something you get used to, and I've sought solace in the fact that the draw itself has absolutely zip to do with the workings or sound quality of the player. It swallows your CD, then the clamping mechanism pushes it up out of the way of the tray.

To get the best out of any power amplifier, you need a dedicated pre-amplifier that's designed for the job. An integrated amplifier, however similar to it's pre-amplifier brother, doesn't sound the same. I've never been able to discredit that so far. Plus, I've never found the Mono X to have a muddled midrange. Maybe they just struggled to drive your speakers properly?

Whether or not the transformer is bigger or asmaller in the X series compared to the Mono X is neither here nor there. The difference between them are night and day, and is as easily demonstrable as changing speakers.

The X300's are so good, I do feel they're up there with some of the best at their price point, and Cyrus owners now have a power amp/s that are at Bryston level, with performance to match.

Cyrus has always been popular, and with the steps forward they've made with their products over the last few years, they'll continue to be. I use Cyrus components at home, and I've never had any trouble, and would be quite happy to use them in the future. As for dealers buying cheap and selling on ebay, this isn't allowed, and are breaking their dealer agreement. As for what we buy it for, it's no different to the discount we get on everything else for working in the trade - we need some perks 🙂

 

[Mr Morph]

I`m talking about his Sony laser VS high end Monolithic triple beam Laser Assembly found in a Cyrus CD transport.

Who makes this impressive ‘high end Monolithic triple beam Laser Assembly’, that apparently has problems loading discs..? I can’t find out any information about it on the net, can someone please enlighten me, or is it a secret? Can’t be Cyrus surely, because they have always used other manufacturer’s lasers and transport assemblies in their machines?

The only Cyrus player I have ever seen the inside of, was this one…

http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/CYRUS/Cyrus%20DAD1.html

Shucks… I only have a poor old Sony…

 

[Frank Harvey]

A DAD1 is decades old!

We all know what people are like if they don't like something, they'll say anything to discredit them. He seems to bang on about the chipset being the cheapest that Phillips ever made - that chipset was probably used for numerous players at the time. Also, Naim quite openly used a basic 16 bit chipset in many of their earlier models, and continued for as long as I've not kept track of. Naim made the point that the chipset was a small part of the player, and larger gains could be made by circuit design and power supply improvements. Whether they were right or wrong, their players sounded fantastic.

I also remember the DAD3's and 7's, and remember that they outperformed the Audiolab's of the day.

Cyrus have designed and now make their own laser mechanisms. There have been a few teething problems for the first few years, but it's all settled down now. Cyrus have made their own so they can guarantee plentiful supply of mechanisms, as most mechanism manufacturers have ceased making them, and one day, supply will run out.

 

[Mr Morph]

A DAD1 is decades old!

So is my Sony! If they are making their own lasers and mechs, I am really impressed, because that would be a massive undertaking. In fact I can't think of another Brit manufacturer that has done that? If anyone can post a pic of the internals of this new system I'd be interested in taking a peek" Cheers David!

 

[Frank Harvey]

I believe they are the only British manufacturer to have done this. They just didn't want to rely on other manufacturer's mechs, especially as most are now discontinued.

Also, the other aspect was that Cyrus felt these mechs weren't of 'hi-fi quality', and wanted to produce something that sounded better then all these other mechs, as sound quality apparently wasn't a design parameter.

 

[MajorFubar]

Take That's last two albums have both suffered from very poor sound quality. (I only know because my better half owns them!) On a quality system some poorly produced albums are going to be found out, and that is what you are finding now.

^^^WHS I'm afraid. Shoot me if you like but I'm quite fond of the band since they reformed last decade having passed through their bubblegum period, but the production quality of their albums is nothing to write home about. SWMBO has the same album as the O/P and I have noticed the same failings on my much less expensive equipment. So damn-good equipment must make it really obvious.