Cyrus with a slightly muddled mid-range

[admin_exported]

Finally, I got my Cyrus 8xpd QX. As was mentioned in the reviews the amplifier produces razor sharp notes and the instruments are very clearly defined with a sparkly treble without being too harsh - even when connected to my Quad 22L2s. I am using a Sony CDP3000ES CD player purely as a transport.

I have noticed something though - sometimes in the midrange the vocals can become a little muddled with a piano or guitar - one example would be Gary Barlow's voice on TakeThat's album The Circus. Whereas Enrique's track Hero (from the Escape album) sounds magical. Is this down to the individual recording quality?

I am assuming if the amp had a fault then everything would sound bad and it wouldn't be specifically the mid-range on particular CDs. I can give specific examples if anyone wants to confirm they have the same experience. I think this is now my set up showing up bad mixes/recordings but just wanted some reassurance.

 

[plastic penguin]

What's the source and speakers? How long have you had the amp?

 

[Anonymous]

Source: Sony CDP x3000ES connected optically

Speakers: Quad 22L2

Age of amp: 2 weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

Anyone?

 

[Craig M.]

your amp is telling you to stop listening to take that.

seriously though, if it only sounds 'bad' with certain cds that suggests to me it's the recording rather than your kit.

 

[Anonymous]

your amp is telling you to stop listening to take that.

+1

 

[CnoEvil]

your amp is telling you to stop listening to take that.

seriously though, if it only sounds 'bad' with certain cds that suggests to me it's the recording rather than your kit.

I would take the opposide view. Your music is telling you to stop listening to the amp

Not a Cyrus fan (so please ignore and enjoy your system)

 

[Anonymous]

Has anyone else experienced this then or I am alone?

 

[eternaloptimist]

I have a Cyrus pre / power combo (PreXPD , Xpower) into Audiovector S3 sigs and the mids are definitely not muddy....

I haven't heard your speakers but would wonder...

 

[Frank Harvey]

Nope. As Craig mentions, if it's only certain CD's, then it's not down to any of your equipment. Have a couple of good sounding demo CD's to hand to try your system out for whenever you come across things like this. I've had a few customers in in the past who say they want to smooth their system out because every now and again on certain CD's, a note here or a note their is grating or harsh. It stands to reason this isn't due to the system, its the mastering of the CD.

 

[Anonymous]

I am sure it is down to the CDs. I have A Walk Across The Rooftops by The Blue Nile and that sounds just incredible. I just worried that it seemed to be on certain CDs with a male vocal, guitar, and piano all together didn't sound very open. Usually with the amp you can follow every instrument individually so I wondered if there was an issue with it.

 

[Anonymous]

For whats its worth, I have owned Cyrus equipment including the Mono Xs, CD8x and 8vs2 amplifier and used these to drive Sonus Faber Signums and Tannoy Kensingtons (wow) speakers. I thought the Cyrus equipment was fantastic on demo, until I went back to and compared it with an Arcam A38 and CD37.

Cyrus sounds dynamic and exciting but lacks the ability to reveal fine detail. Music with a lot going on just becomes mush. For example listen to the first few minutes of Lady GaGa's Alejandro (Fame Monster)this track has heavy synthesiser with vocals on top and really quite conjested music. The cyrus makes this just a noise. The Arcam reveals the music with ease, each instrument clearly defind, high resolution reproduction, the quality is in the detail.

I contacted Cyrus in writing about the MonoX's poor resolution and all they had to say was 'we are launching the Mono x 300 soon, that may resolve your issues, thanks for the caring customer support Cyrus

I have sold the Cyrus Mono Xs and returned to Arcam. My love of Cyrus lasted about 18 months. Quality is an other issue, just to name a few points,

power on/off leds different intensity,

cd draw on the cd8x about as smooth a jack hammer,

Cheap plastic volume control knob

Thin plastic bottoms to the so called super all shielding cast case,

Stick on feet that fall off.

Cheap die cast boxes, with plastic front inserts that dont align properly with the case (its only the injection dies that are expensive)

Cyrus- no thank you I've returned to quality engineered Arcam equipment.

 

[matthewpiano]

Take That's last two albums have both suffered from very poor sound quality. (I only know because my better half owns them!) On a quality system some poorly produced albums are going to be found out, and that is what you are finding now.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The investment Cyrus made into the magnesium alloy case, and even the machinery that makes the one piece that sits behind the front panel that incorporates the buttons was absolutely massive. This isn't something done on the cheap. For the record, we've had no Cyrus products back because of I'll fitting buttons,

LED's aren't all of the same intensity - they're quite random in that respect.

The 'stick on feet' do the job Cyrus need them to do - would you rather they spend a load of money on fancy looking, serious feet, which have no positive effect, and in turn making you pay more for a product?

Crappy CD draws? That covers about 80% of the Cd players on the market.

The Mono X's were very good power amplifiers, but are left out in the cold by the new X series power amplifiers.

I think part of your issue is that you were using an integrated amplifier as a pre-amplifier - integrated amplifiers are designed to do just that, and not to be as open, detailed, and transparent as a dedicated, quality pre-amplifier like the DACxp, which really is the sort of pre-amplifier that should be used with the Cyrus Mono's.

If you contact Cyrus and say that the Mono X's are poor, what can Cyrus do about that? They've designed the product, tested it, and ran the model for many, many years. Unless you actually have a problem with your specific models, there's nothing they can do about your demanding requirements. Letting you know a much better model is due is all they could say. But as I say, see above - I don't think the issue was the power amplifiers.

In addition to using a dedicated pre-amp, more resolution would've been achieved by upgrading the CD8 to a CDxt, which would've had a similar effect. Your problem was your front end.

Just a few helpful words

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with Matthew, I think the mastering is the culprit in this case.

 

[Anonymous]

I am sure it is down to the CDs. I have A Walk Across The Rooftops by The Blue Nile and that sounds just incredible. I just worried that it seemed to be on certain CDs with a male vocal, guitar, and piano all together didn't sound very open. Usually with the amp you can follow every instrument individually so I wondered if there was an issue with it.

Take That is a modern band and the CD will be compressed and clipped to hell.

Frankly it's a miracle people still buy them, to test your system you need to forget about the modern Pop CD and play something on vinyl or a CD mastered carefully. Take some Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Queen, Katie Melua etc. If you are interested about hi-fi and audio you should rip your CD and view the tracks in Audacity or SeeDeclip and then you'll know. If the trace looks dynamic and variable you are fine, if it looks like a brick (which most modern stuff does) you have identified the problem.

If you can play stuff from a DVD that will help too - DVD audio can be much higher quality than CD.

I could comment on your system but while garbage is fed into the front end nothing else will matter.

 

[dannycanham]

It may be that your system brings out the best in 9/10 cds and the worst in every 1/10. So it may be that neither the system or cd is poor but the combinations sometimes don't match.

I've always tended to prefer a different sub set of my CD collection for every set up I've had, really loving female vocalists and creaky solemn breathiness on my cyrus/spendor. However to find take that making its way amongst them would take a very special system.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry but the truth is you dont have a full cyrus system so it does not sound like a cyrus system. A cd transport makes a massive amount of change to the sound and needs a DAC that is matched to work with it. Cyrus design all their stuff to work with other cyrus parts and sony is a joke as far as hifi goes.

 

[Anonymous]

A cd transport makes a massive amount of change to the sound and needs a DAC that is matched to work with it. Cyrus design all their stuff to work with other cyrus parts and sony is a joke as far as hifi goes.

I find the CD transport has no effect on sound, but the DAC has a big effect TBH. The largest effect is the CD master itself though. People spending thousands of pounds on hi-fi gear upgrades or fiddling would often be better off just putting in a different CD.

Cyrus will work other stuff OK, it's not bad budget stuff TBH - I had a Cyrus One that worked fine until totally eclipsed by one of my own designs (that would have cost > 4x more that the Cyrus to make).

 

[The_Lhc]

Take That is a modern band and the CD will be compressed and clipped to hell.

Frankly it's a miracle people still buy them, to test your system you need to forget about the modern Pop CD and play something on vinyl or a CD mastered carefully. Take some Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Queen, Katie Melua etc.

What happens if you don't like any of that stuff? Three of those four are amongst my least favourite artists of all time.

 

[Anonymous]

A cd transport makes a massive amount of change to the sound and needs a DAC that is matched to work with it. Cyrus design all their stuff to work with other cyrus parts and sony is a joke as far as hifi goes.

I find the CD transport has no effect on sound, but the DAC has a big effect TBH. The largest effect is the CD master itself though. People spending thousands of pounds on hi-fi gear upgrades or fiddling would often be better off just putting in a different CD.

Cyrus will work other stuff OK, it's not bad budget stuff TBH - I had a Cyrus One that worked fine until totally eclipsed by one of my own designs (that would have cost > 4x more that the Cyrus to make).

What CD transports did you compare, were they about the same price by any chance. I`m talking about his Sony laser VS high end Monolithic triple beam Laser Assembly found in a Cyrus CD transport.

 

[Anonymous]

Reply to Frank HarveyHiFi

1) "LED's aren't all of the same intensity - they're quite random in that respect".

You almost sound pleased about that. Electronic components are produced using some of the most demanding quality standards of any manufacturing process. It the current limit resistor value that produces different intensities, not the leds themselves.

So quality control is not a strong point for Cyrus. Why can other brands obtain consistency across their range?

Maybe the sound of each Cyrus unit is also not the same then, why should it be any different

2) "The 'stick on feet' do the job Cyrus need them to do - would you rather they spend a load of money on fancy looking, serious feet, which have no positive effect, and in turn making you pay more for a product."

Oh dear what bombshells Why do hifi shops and add on merchants sell fancy add on feet for equipment if they have no effect.

3) "rubbish CD draws? That covers about 80% of the Cd players on the market"

The industry needs to get its act together. We are talking about equipment that markets at very high retail prices. My car cd player load/eject is miles more refind

4) I think part of your issue is that you were using an integrated amplifier as a pre-amplifier

The 8vs2 pre amp is the same pcb as the 8vs2 integrated that I was using but with the power amp components left out. Compare the internal photos of the two. The Mono Xs performed the same using the Arcam as pre amp, so it’s a power amp issue.

Just a note on the latest Mono X300 . Cyrus show no internal pictures why?

The transformer rated at 305VA is electrically smaller than the original mono xs. Power amps at this price usually have big power supplies, and large size (uf) capacitors but the shoe box restraint means it is impossible to install anything bigger.

At the end of the day there is better engineered and sounding equipment than Cyrus for the same price. I reckon the bonus payed to dealers to push Cyrus means they are flavour of the month. (They get to buy cheap units if they meet sales targets which then appear on ebay so the staff can make a few £s)

 

[Anonymous]

Reply to Frank HarveyHiFi

1) "LED's aren't all of the same intensity - they're quite random in that respect".

You almost sound pleased about that. Electronic components are produced using some of the most demanding quality standards of any manufacturing process. It the value (ohms) of the Cyrus selected current limiting resistor used that produces different intensities, not the leds themselves.

Other brands manage to obtain consistency across their range?

and by the way leds are used for tv screens so i am sure there intensisty is not 'quite random'

2) "The 'stick on feet' do the job Cyrus need them to do - would you rather they spend a load of money on fancy looking, serious feet, which have no positive effect, and in turn making you pay more for a product."

Oh dear what bombshells Why do hifi shops and add on merchants sell fancy add on feet for equipment to improve sound and isolation if they have no effect.

3) "rubbish CD draws? That covers about 80% of the Cd players on the market"

The industry needs to get its act together. We are talking about equipment that markets at very high retail prices for what it does. My car cd player insert/eject is more refined

4) I think part of your issue is that you were using an integrated amplifier as a pre-amplifier

The 8vs2 pre amp is the same pcb as the 8vs2 integrated but with the power amp components left out. Compare the internal photos of the two. The Mono Xs performed the same using the Arcam as pre amp, so it’s a power amp issue.

Just a note on the latest Mono X300 .

The transformer of the x300 rated at 305VA is electrically smaller than the original mono xs (335va). Power amps at this price, for good audio reasons, usually have big transformers, and large size (uf) capacitors for the power supply but the shoe box restraint means it is impossible to install anything bigger. At the end of the day you are listening to the psu so it needs to be good

There is better equipment out there for the same price.

Hi Fi dealers are keen to push Cyrus, I wonder if it’s due to the bonus system they operate. If sales targets are met staff can buy reduced price units which they can then sell on ebay to make them some £s, the unopenend sealed ones, you know.

 

[Anonymous]

Take That is a modern band and the CD will be compressed and clipped to hell.

Frankly it's a miracle people still buy them, to test your system you need to forget about the modern Pop CD and play something on vinyl or a CD mastered carefully. Take some Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Queen, Katie Melua etc.

What happens if you don't like any of that stuff? Three of those four are amongst my least favourite artists of all time.

Then you should write to the record companies as ask them why their product is damaged (clipped) before you get it?

 

[Anonymous]

What CD transports did you compare, were they about the same price by any chance. I`m talking about his Sony laser VS high end Monolithic triple beam Laser Assembly found in a Cyrus CD transport.

I've mainly compared Naim, Marantz, Sony and PC DVD/CD readers.

BTW when I rip a CD on a computer they always come off the CD the same. I mean bit perfect. Unless a CD player has severe tracking errors the data from and CD reader will be the same.

Now I know you'll be telling me the data from a £5000 player will be 'better' than from a £15 DVD/CD player will be better, but frankly it won't be, it will be exactly the same. In fact my PC drive can read a CD at 40x speed with no errors - and DVDs, so intrinsically it's a better drive.

So given that the digital data is exactly the same (and it is, according to a long discussion and series of read tests on DIYAudio), why would the transport make any difference? Well - the only other variable is timing, or more specifically, timing jitter. This is why I have a DAC that re-times the incoming data to it's own digital clock, and in fact I can hook up the £115 UltraMatch to a precision Master Clock to make it even better.

So I'm sorry guys, but digital data is data - pure and simple, and unless you care to re-write the laws of physics and principles of mathematics an error free read of a CD will always be the same (although better on a PC because ripping allows the reader to have a number of passes).

TBH the transport and DAC quality are largely irrelevant to todays appalling mastering of the CD.