Cyrus vs Arcam ?

[BillDay66]

Hi all,

Bumped this up from another thread, I am constructing a 'to listen to' list for next year. I am looking to get a high end amp with integrated dac and some speakers and currently like the look of the Cyrus range. It matters to me (and the wife!) what the system looks like as well what it sounds like and I like British components.

My last system was an Arcam a85 amp, Arcam CD92, Cyrus CLS50 speakers + gale mini monitors in 2nd room. I'd have to say I wasnt overwhelmed by the sound of this kit in the end and found it to be a bit plodding - I actually preferred the gale speakers because they seemed a bit livelier.

I know its been asked on here but any opinions on the 'cyrus sound' compared to my comments about the arcam system above. I know I've got to go and listen to it but would welcome any of your experiences along with speaker recommendations.

Any opinions on the merits of an integrated (8xpd) vs a Pre/Power set up (Pre xpd / X power) would be welcome, I like having an upgrade path available so the pre / power looks tempting. Might even be tempted to go the whole hog with the DAC XP Pre and a power amp or 2!

Plan to go and listen to the lot in January, but wouldnt mind some food for thought!

Thanks again, Bill

 

[Anonymous]

Arcam is traditionally warm although I understand that some of the later kit is less so. Cyrus is tighter, times better and, for some, is brighter but again later kit has more bass.

Speaker choice is important too. Dynaudio and ATC are popular, MA and B&W less so.

 

[6th.replicant]

IME, Arcam's kit sounds much livelier these days. IMHO the A38 amp is a cracker and there are some good deals around at present - eg Audio T, £1,099, was £1,479 - and while the A38 only merits 3 stars from WHF?, other publications gave a definite 5-star thumbs up.

FWIW, I wanted classical music to sound engaging, dramatic and realistic.

During recent demo, Cyrus had bags of detail and 'snap', but violins, for example, sounded metallic and very shrill, while brass instruments almost induced tinnitus.

With rock/pop/soul etc, IMHO Cyrus's sound doesn't seem to suit CDs of older/classic recordings (eg Bowie, 'Zep, Otis Redding, Roxy Music, The Clash etc), which sounded very thin and bass-light to my ears.

In short, IMO it's well worth giving Arcam's current stuff a demo.

 

[plastic penguin]

In agreement, the Cyrus stuff can sound thin, and to my ears, uninvolving - okay for short listening.

IMHO Arcam, although not quite as detailed, is more musical and great for long sessions. Mind you, I am very biased towards Arcam. But the only way of deciding is to audition the two.

Speakers will differ as both present a very different sonic delivery.

For Cyrus: Spendor, Dynaudio, B&W (?)

For Arcam: PMC, Monitor Audio, Dali.

These choices are based on personal experience, so I'm sure others will come up alternative suggestions.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thinking again about the two brands. This may sound absolutely ridiculous, but you could do worse than the Leema Pulse. Let me explain why: Look at it in layman's terms the Leema is a half-way house when you consider the two aforementioned brands.

In more detail, it makes even more sense: take the really good bits from the Cyrus like the detail, rhythmic snap, underpinned by the lovely organic character and smooth midrange of the Arcam and you pretty much end up with... the Leema Pulse.

Hope I haven't offended other Arcam or Cyrus fans, but it's my take on the Leema....

 

[BillDay66]

Thanks for two cents worth guys, I am an arcam fan I supppose, just listening to my a85 for long periods could become, well.. boring if you know what I mean! Think I may prefer that laid back sound to a brighter sound though, gonna have to listen carefully to both.

FWIW I listen to a lot of older cds, from John Lee Hooker to The Stones not to mention Johnny Cash and Bruce Springsteen - I found my old A85 to be great for the slower stuff like JLH and JC but struggling with The E street band in full flow. - Does this sound familiar to you? Also Keiths swirling guitar on Gimme Shelter never sounded quite right, probably my fave album ever would be Exile on Main Street - not sure an Amp been invented that would sort that mess out! - I think maybe the CLS50 speakers werent the best match?

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you need to give Naim stuff a listen.

 

[plastic penguin]

BillDay66:

Thanks for two cents worth guys, I am an arcam fan I supppose, just listening to my a85 for long periods could become, well.. boring if you know what I mean! Think I may prefer that laid back sound to a brighter sound though, gonna have to listen carefully to both.

FWIW I listen to a lot of older cds, from John Lee Hooker to The Stones not to mention Johnny Cash and Bruce Springsteen - I found my old A85 to be great for the slower stuff like JLH and JC but struggling with The E street band in full flow. - Does this sound familiar to you? Also Keiths swirling guitar on Gimme Shelter never sounded quite right, probably my fave album ever would be Exile on Main Street - not sure an Amp been invented that would sort that mess out! - I think maybe the CLS50 speakers werent the best match?

Sounds like you should at least listen to the Leema. Like you I love Arcam products, but once I heard the Leema it was a no brainer. Even with less than capable speakers (I was first using Wharfedales E20 speakers when I first purchased the Pulse) it still arranges instruments, or layers the sounds far better than the Arcs I've listened to, including the newer FMJ range.

 

[JamesOK]

BillDay66:Hi all,

Bumped this up from another thread, I am constructing a 'to listen to' list for next year. I am looking to get a high end amp with integrated dac and some speakers and currently like the look of the Cyrus range. It matters to me (and the wife!) what the system looks like as well what it sounds like and I like British components.

My last system was an Arcam a85 amp, Arcam CD92, Cyrus CLS50 speakers + gale mini monitors in 2nd room. I'd have to say I wasnt overwhelmed by the sound of this kit in the end and found it to be a bit plodding - I actually preferred the gale speakers because they seemed a bit livelier.

I know its been asked on here but any opinions on the 'cyrus sound' compared to my comments about the arcam system above. I know I've got to go and listen to it but would welcome any of your experiences along with speaker recommendations.

Any opinions on the merits of an integrated (8xpd) vs a Pre/Power set up (Pre xpd / X power) would be welcome, I like having an upgrade path available so the pre / power looks tempting. Might even be tempted to go the whole hog with the DAC XP Pre and a power amp or 2!

Plan to go and listen to the lot in January, but wouldnt mind some food for thought!

Thanks again, Bill

Bill - I have been in the exact same position as you. Used to have an A85/P85 and CD82 combination. Loved it for years, but then got to the point where I felt it was a little dull.

After much consideration and demoing I went down the Naim route and got a CD5i2 and Nait5i2. Yes this is much more lively, but the initial demo is much different to living with it at home. I tired of it after not too long, so back to the drawing board.

Demoed some more kit, and the dealer suggested the Cyrus setup against the (more expensive) Naim Nait XS and CD5X. He put the Naim stuff on for a few minutes, and I immediately realised it wasnt much different to the Naim kit I was getting rid of! Then to the Cyrus. Well, I love that sound. Its in the same kind of ball park as Arcam but less warm and more detailed. I now have a 8xpd and mac as a source (with plans to get a CD8SE at some point). I'd suggest demoing the CD8SE and the CDXT SE with whatever amp combination you see fit. If you like Arcam, I can imagine you'll get on well with Cyrus.

 

[BillDay66]

Thanks James, very interesting. I do like the spec of the Cyrus, as I intend to play a lot of digital music from various sources - dont mind a separate dac but given the choice would rather have a box less. CD player is not even on the list at the moment (but it will be, knowing me !)- so the DAC either integrated or rdac / dacmagic is a must. Also where the units will sit I can run our second telly through the amp via optical out from the telly - Not what I am looking to do primarily but its got to improve the tv sound so that will be a bonus. I also really like the cyrus upgrade path and have the feeling that FMJ is due a revamp soon?

Guess I need to start making appointments!

 

[JamesOK]

BillDay66:
I do like the spec of the Cyrus, as I intend to play a lot of digital music from various sources - dont mind a separate dac but given the choice would rather have a box less.

I actually only expected my mac to be a stop gap until I got a CD player, but I am now pretty hooked on digital music (itunes and spotify premium mostly). If youre thinking you will be using the amp as DAC why not look at the 8XPD QX too? This has an uprated DAC. I have read on here (but dont know whether its strictly correct or not) that the 8xpd has a DAC equivalent to that of the CD6SE and the 8xpdQX has a DAC equivalent to that of the CD8SE. Whether its accurate or not I dont know, but I am going to upgrade my 8xpd to the QX version as a Christmas present to myself.

I also have my freesat box plugged in to the amp via optical cable, which is great for radio and sounds very good indeed. Like you, the massive upgrade path was a big attraction to Cyrus for me.

 

[plastic penguin]

In what respect or aspect is Cyrus and Arcam alike? To my ears they are as night and day as any brands.

 

[SteveR750]

Personally I found the *cheaper* Cyrus gear to be lean, fairly detailed, 'fast' sounding, but poor timing and soundstaging (these things are relative not absolute). It was the point of timing that I did not realise until I set up my PC as a source. Thinking about it, I was happier with the sound of my NAD C542 compared to the CD6SE as it made a more convincing "shape" to the music. With the Cyrus, I always felt something was missing somewhere...

 

[eternaloptimist]

Hi OP,

I used to have an Arcam system, but migrated to Cyrus (see sig). Both companies make lovely gear - I do think speakers make a huge difference with both electronics. Just a few thoughts:

1. I had an integrated amp (8vs2) which I sequentially changed to the now PreXPd and XPower combination. The latter is significantly better and I would encourage you to go with separates if possible. But the 8XPd is a lovely amp and can be biamped in the future (such as with an Xpower) - if planning to vertically biamp, check your speakers can.

2. The DAC in the standard PreXPd and 8XPd is not worth the money - is "muffled" and screws up what is a really lovely preamp. If going for an integrated DAC, I would get the PreXPdQx (or 8XPdQx) - the Qx DAC is significantly better. Alternatively, you could get the 8XP without the DAC and then an external DAC....(such as the W4S DAC1/2!! see sig!). Is worth thinking about DACs as digital streaming is the future...

3. I have heard Cyrus with loads of speakers. Good choices (amongst many) include: Dynaudio (great value if in Australia, but can't be biwired if planning to biamp in the future), Audiovector (see Sig!), ATC (but needs lots of grunt!), PMC, Proact (sort of) and Spendor (not for me, but great for classical). Focal speakers also have their followers. Checkout what people on www.cyrusunofficial.co.uk have. I don't agree with Steve's comments above - I would question what speakers etc the Cyrus were partnered with. There is nothing "missing", on the contrary, there is detail aplenty...

4. The new Arcam kit sounds lovely too but to my ears is not as detailed - then again, I don't think the partnered speakers were ideal...

Overall, I think it would come down to personal taste.

Incidentally, I think the Arcam A65+ was one of the great amplifiers for people getting into Hifi - wish I hadnt sold it...

Just my 2 cents.

 

[plastic penguin]

Couldn't agree more about the A65 Plus. Still one of the best sub-£500 integrateds around.

 

[Anonymous]

What about Densen? Has the drive and detail of Naim/Cyrus plus a touch of the Arcam warmth.

 

[JamesOK]

plastic penguin:In what respect or aspect is Cyrus and Arcam alike? To my ears they are as night and day as any brands.

If youre asking me PP, I didnt say it was alike, just in same ball park. What I probably shouldve said was it was in same ball park compared with Arcam vs Naim for example.