Audiophile witch hunt or basic common sense?

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

This is now getting personal - stop it please.

 

[Dave_]

Creationism is alive and well on WHF I see...

 

[Friesiansam]

Creationism is alive and well on WHF I see...

So was it the Christian God, that had the daft idea of putting a groove on a piece of static, warp and scratch prone, black plastic?

 

[Al ears]

So was it the Christian God, that had the daft idea of putting a groove on a piece of static, warp and scratch prone, black plastic?

No.

 

[Jasonovich]

I've watched maybe half a dozen of this guy's YT blogs and his modus operanti appears to be to debunk everything!
Also I find a little disengenus, the most esteem 1960s engineer Ethan Winer is promoting his book, so take it with a pinch of salt.
I reckon throw more recording engineers into the hat and you'll get a different outcome each time.

Just my feedback on that video featuring Ethan Winer, all cables potentially are an LCR filter which differs depending on materials of construction and geometry. That is why different cables sound different, if you don’t hear the difference doesn’t make either of us right or wrong and I don't agree arguing it out until one becomes blue in the face. Ah, man you either accept it or don't, really it's no big deal!

View: https://youtu.be/8Nm26pUo6gQ?si=rP_t_oMqK7SXTyv6

 

[Friesiansam]

I've watched maybe half a dozen of this guy's YT blogs and his modus operanti appears to be to debunk everything!
Also I find a little disengenus, the most esteem 1960s engineer Ethan Winer is promoting his book, so take it with a pinch of salt.
I reckon throw more recording engineers into the hat and you'll get a different outcome each time.

Just my feedback on that video featuring Ethan Winer, all cables potentially are an LCR filter which differs depending on materials of construction and geometry. That is why different cables sound different, if you don’t hear the difference doesn’t make either of us right or wrong and I don't agree arguing it out until one becomes blue in the face. Ah, man you either accept it or don't, really it's no big deal!

View: https://youtu.be/8Nm26pUo6gQ?si=rP_t_oMqK7SXTyv6

Ignore YouTubers, problem solved.

Works for me!

 

[Jasonovich]

Ignore YouTubers, problem solved.

Works for me!

Thanks Sam, good advice!

 

[Gadusmorhua]

Yes, CD was produced to give higher quality sound. It preserves more of the original recording, while vinyl doesn't. I can't believe you think early CDs were analogue. It's a digital format. CD has the resolution to capture most of the information held on tape. It's a closer approximation than vinyl. Vinyl cannot hold the same amount of information as CD. When you transfer an analogue recording to vinyl, it doesn't have the capacity to hold this information. CD is able to hold more information transferred from analogue tapes. It really is incredible that people still insist vinyl is a better format than a more recent one, such as CD. People don't like CD, because it reveals the limitations of poor recordings, while vinyl will flatter these shortcomings. If you don't like CD, you're listening to poor recordings. New studio recordings on CD sound amazing and are totally wasted on vinyl. Every single technical aspect of CD is superior to vinyl. These are facts and I still believe the reason people are fixated with vinyl is because of the ritual and 'lifestyle' associated with this format. People bang on about the sleeve notes and the packaging. That's fine if you are into this stuff, but it doesn't add anything to the sound quali

 

[Gadusmorhua]

It's the lifestyle that deters me. My house is too dirty, and I'm too clumsy. My friends forbade me from their turntables when vinyl and tapes ruled, with good reason.
I don't understand why people want all that faff, but each to their own.

 

[podknocker]

It's the lifestyle that deters me. My house is too dirty, and I'm too clumsy. My friends forbade me from their turntables when vinyl and tapes ruled, with good reason.
I don't understand why people want all that faff, but each to their own.

My thoughts exactly. I have a laptop which fits perfectly on top of my streaming amp and the only visible cables are for the mains and the speaker cables. I control the app from my phone and mainly use the laptop to choose playlists etc. Everything is controlled and streamed wirelessly and it's great and easy to use. I double click on any of the 100 million tunes and podcasts and it's instant great sound quality. I don't know how moving to another format, at lower quality and with much less stuff to listen to, would be any benefit. Many people do like to make their access to music really messy and complicated and I've never known why.

 

[Gray]

It's the lifestyle that deters me. My house is too dirty, and I'm too clumsy. My friends forbade me from their turntables when vinyl and tapes ruled, with good reason.

With very good reason 👍
Back then (in the days when vinyl sleeves advised that 'home taping is killing music') people were kind enough to lend me their records.

I often wondered why the playing surfaces contained finger prints - completely unnecessary 🤨

The type of person that went on to own CDs.....that looked as if they been used as frisbees......and the state of some of the hi-fi I see on E-bay 😱 sometimes described as showing ' normal signs of wear and tear'......normal if you live in a pig sty.

 

[Friesiansam]

With very good reason 👍
Back then (in the days when vinyl sleeves advised that 'home taping is killing music') people were kind enough to lend me their records.

I often wondered why the playing surfaces contained finger prints - completely unnecessary 🤨

The type of person that went on to own CDs.....that looked as if they been used as frisbees......and the state of some of the hi-fi I see on E-bay 😱 sometimes described as showing ' normal signs of wear and tear'......normal if you live in a pig sty.

A long time I used to borrow CDs from the local library. Without exception they were always filthy and in need of a good clean, before being allowed inside my CD player.

 

[twinkletoes]

If a persons buying habbits are dictated by personal hygiene then quite frankly they have more to worry about than this debate.

 

[Gray]

If a persons buying habbits are dictated by personal hygiene then quite frankly they have more to worry about than this debate.

Just a simple case of properly looking after what you've bought that's all 👍

 

[twinkletoes]

I don't know how moving to another format, at lower quality and with much less stuff to listen to, would be any benefit. Many people do like to make their access to music really messy and complicated and I've never known why.

Thankfully there is a website that can help with that!

Album list - Dynamic Range DB

I can tell you now just by the nature of vinyl shortcomings many will receive a more sympathetic/ delicate master of a recording often with greater dynamics and that is very much a fact. CD can be comprised on a number of levels but not all! As ever its not as easy as spouting out a load of numbers into the either and hopping they'll stick like sh&t to a blanket

Lets look at a few albums




look at the dynamics of "fat of the land", all 3 vinyl pressings pee all over the CD. This is quite frankly why people like and hunt down vinyl, it's not always a given but this is generally why.

look this version of this album


Again here the vinyl pressing of this album is the one you want if you favour dynamics and collecting the best versions.


And one more lets look at more modern one

Metallica 72 seasons, the vinyl pressing absolutely all over the digital versions and by a good long way


SO if the DR is greater on a vinyl record than that on the of CD/digital counterpart that means there is less musical data on a CD/digital file no? So no CD's do not always carry more data and better quality sound far from it in some cases

There are some amazing CDs as well this site, anyone collecting Jeff beck atm man those CD's sound incredible! even the more modern versions

 

[podknocker]

Thankfully there is a website that can help with that!

Album list - Dynamic Range DB

I can tell you now just by the nature of vinyl shortcomings many will receive a more sympathetic/ delicate master of a recording often with greater dynamics and that is very much a fact. CD can be comprised on a number of levels but not all! As ever its not as easy as spouting out a load of numbers into the either and hopping they'll stick like sh&t to a blanket

Lets look at a few albums


View attachment 8331

look at the dynamics of "fat of the land", all 3 vinyl pressings pee all over the CD. This is quite frankly why people like and hunt down vinyl, it's not always a given but this is generally why.

look this version of this album
View attachment 8332

Again here the vinyl pressing of this album is the one you want if you favour dynamics and collecting the best versions.


And one more lets look at more modern one

Metallica 72 seasons, the vinyl pressing absolutely all over the digital versions and by a good long wayView attachment 8333


SO if the DR is greater on a vinyl record than that on the of CD/digital counterpart that means there is less musical data on a CD/digital file no? So no CD's do not always carry more data and better quality sound far from it in some cases

There are some amazing CDs as well this site, anyone collecting Jeff beck atm man those CD's sound incredible! even the more modern versions

This is all nonsense. DR is considered more when transferring to vinyl, because nobody cares about transferring the master to CD with the same amount of care and attention. CD has more potential than vinyl could ever dream of. It's INCREDIBLE that people on this forum still don't see that CD can approximate the studio recording better than vinyl, IF anyone gave a crap. A good transfer to vinyl WILL have a higher DR than the one to CD, if the CD mastering process is treated without care. This is not the fault of the CD standard. If every recording was mastered to CD with all the DR and S/N and distortion taken into account, then CD would sound amazing. CD is better than vinyl, IF the dicks in the mastering booths actually cared about the digital format, but this is neglected these days. Everyone's on the vinyl revival bandwagon, so every drop of quality is squeezed out onto vinyl. The mastering process with CD is not considered these days and many consider CD as a 2nd class format. If you do it right with CD, then you get remarkable results, because guess what, every single specification of CD is better than that of vinyl. CD has been neglected for decades. The masters online should be the same masters used for CD, so in theory, the online files are studio quality. Do you honestly think a studio tape recording, or high res digital file can be transferred to vinyl without loss of quality? Not a chance. With ALL things being equal at the mastering stage, CD destroys vinyl, but like I said, the mastering of CD isn't treated with consideration. Vinyl lovers refuse to accept the potential quality of CD, even when the techincal charts are in front of them. I will say it for the 3rd time I think, do you really think Sony and Philips spent years and millions of pounds in the late 70s to invent a music format to sound worse than vinyl? I also think most of the vinyl worshippers are a similar age and demographic and listen to possibly quite dated albums, which can sound brittle and harsh. The lower resolution of vinyl will flatter these issues and soften the sound to make it more listenable. I don't want to listen to rubbish recordings anyway and all the music I listen to now is the latest stuff that's been well recorded. It leaps out of the speakers, even on Spotify and I'm sure if all this music was available on CD it would sound fantastic. Transfer a new, well recorded, produced and mastered album to vinyl and it would be lost and wasted on this ancient format. For a modern studio quality recording, you need a high res format to realise this and do the recording justice. Vinyl will never be able to do this. John Darko made a video about DR and the differences in formats, using this website. He also preferred many CD versions of albums over vinyl releases, because they had twice as many tracks, including bonus tracks etc. This is because CD can store more information than vinyl. Facts are facts, ignore them all you like, but it's just stubborn denial.

 

[twinkletoes]

This is all nonsense. DR is considered more when transferring to vinyl, because nobody cares about transferring the master to CD with the same amount of care and attention. CD has more potential than vinyl could ever dream of. It's INCREDIBLE that people on this forum still don't see that CD can approximate the studio recording better than vinyl, IF anyone gave a crap. A good transfer to vinyl WILL have a higher DR than the one to CD, if the CD mastering process is treated without care. This is not the fault of the CD standard. If every recording was mastered to CD with all the DR and S/N and distortion taken into account, then CD would sound amazing. CD is better than vinyl, IF the dicks in the mastering booths actually cared about the digital format, but this is neglected these days. Everyone's on the vinyl revival bandwagon, so every drop of quality is squeezed out onto vinyl. The mastering process with CD is not considered these days and many consider CD as a 2nd class format. If you do it right with CD, then you get remarkable results, because guess what, every single specification of CD is better than that of vinyl. CD has been neglected for decades. The masters online should be the same masters used for CD, so in theory, the online files are studio quality. Do you honestly think a studio tape recording, or high res digital file can be transferred to vinyl without loss of quality? Not a chance. With ALL things being equal at the mastering stage, CD destroys vinyl, but like I said, the mastering of CD isn't treated with consideration. Vinyl lovers refuse to accept the potential quality of CD, even when the techincal charts are in front of them. I will say it for the 3rd time I think, do you really think Sony and Philips spent years and millions of pounds in the late 70s to invent a music format to sound worse than vinyl? I also think most of the vinyl worshippers are a similar age and demographic and listen to possibly quite dated albums, which can sound brittle and harsh. The lower resolution of vinyl will flatter these issues and soften the sound to make it more listenable. I don't want to listen to rubbish recordings anyway and all the music I listen to now is the latest stuff that's been well recorded. It leaps out of the speakers, even on Spotify and I'm sure if all this music was available on CD it would sound fantastic. Transfer a new, well recorded, produced and mastered album to vinyl and it would be lost and wasted on this ancient format. For a modern studio quality recording, you need a high res format to realise this and do the recording justice. Vinyl will never be able to do this. John Darko made a video about DR and the differences in formats, using this website. He also preferred many CD versions of albums over vinyl releases, because they had twice as many tracks, including bonus tracks etc. This is because CD can store more information than vinyl. Facts are facts, ignore them all you like, but it's just stubborn denial.

I can’t read this it’s horrendous, what did read was just personal attacks and tripe.

I was going to write a long winded response but really can’t be bothered.

I’ll quote this instead

“Yes, if a CD has a lower dynamic range, it means there is less information captured in the audio, as the difference between the quietest and loudest sounds is smaller, potentially leading to a less detailed and nuanced listening experience; essentially, the recording has been compressed, reducing the range of volume levels present in the music.”

So my examples of fat of the land show there is basically less musical data in the cds ( if the cds show a full 700mb used up on disc it will be noise, so no useable data. nothing) the vinyl counterparts in this example quite simply has extra useable data it has more DR I quite simply has more more of everything. As I said not always the case but in this instance it’s a land slide.

I don’t know what else to say mate if you can’t get that god help yah.

I may play dumb chap but I’m really not. And all I have to do is keep copying and pasting 2 lines of text in this post and you can’t argue round it, no ifs, buts and able too’s, it’s done chap.
I’m
Now if you’re talking about ticks and pops and you can’t stand that, that’s fine I can get behind that and fair enough.