Audiophile witch hunt or basic common sense?

[froze]

Did anyone ever make a fuss about compact discs being made from analogue masters? Particularly those produced as AAD? Not that I recall. But now we have the anti-vinyl brigade trying to make a big thing out of this.

Actually I remember this stuff, and yes they did, and they still do because most analogue masters done back in the day sound like crap on CD because they try to clean up the sound and ruin it in the process.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

Did anyone ever make a fuss about compact discs being made from analogue masters? Particularly those produced as AAD? Not that I recall. But now we have the anti-vinyl brigade trying to make a big thing out of this.

Why would they? Analogue masters were all there was. There wasn't much anyone could do about that.

 

[davidf]

Why would they? Analogue masters were all there was. There wasn't much anyone could do about that.

Digitally recording music had been around long before CD appeared on the scene.

 

[davidf]

Actually I remember this stuff, and yes they did, and they still do because most analogue masters done back in the day sound like crap on CD because they try to clean up the sound and ruin it in the process.

Nothing really wrong with the masters. Generally, music captured in the analogue era tends to sound better on analogue, as that was the medium it was originally mastered for. Many of the earlier CDs have better dynamic range compared to newer, compressed masters.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

Digitally recording music had been around long before CD appeared on the scene.

Oh hardly a mainstream thing, don't be so disingenuous.

 

[Jasonovich]

Actually I remember this stuff, and yes they did, and they still do because most analogue masters done back in the day sound like crap on CD because they try to clean up the sound and ruin it in the process.

You homed in on the methodology i.e. the process and agree 100%.
When I'm purchasing my digital downloads from Nativedsd, I have two preferences, pure DSD recordings or original analogue tape to DSD.
I think this digital analogue debate has a tendency to be self serving depending on ones entrenched opinions or vested interests, seems a little pointless. It's more about the process, either formats can sound great 😃 👍

 

[Al ears]

You homed in on the methodology i.e. the process and agree 100%.
When I'm purchasing my digital downloads from Nativedsd, I have two preferences, pure DSD recordings or original analogue tape to DSD.
I think this digital analogue debate has a tendency to be self serving depending on ones entrenched opinions or vested interests, seems a little pointless. It's more about the process, either formats can sound great 😃 👍

Hear, hear!

 

[Friesiansam]

Oh hardly a mainstream thing, don't be so disingenuous.

He didn’t claim it was mainstream, nor was he being disingenuous. Look up the history of digital recording, it’s not difficult.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

He didn’t claim it was mainstream, nor was he being disingenuous. Look up the history of digital recording, it’s not difficult.

In the context of the discussion here it certainly was disingenuous. And I know about the history of digital recording, that's why I feel able to call him out for being disingenuous here.

 

[JDl]

Don't expect me to know what it was John 🙂
It was two or three tracks of peaceful music to suit the 'U' (unwind).…..probably intended to help you sleep.

Oh, that sounds a bit dodgy ha ha.
My challenge to you would be to listen Rachmaninov's "Isle of the Dead", the version by the Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam, conducted by Vladimir Ashkenazy and or Rachmaninov's Symphonies 1 and 2 same orchestra same conductor and Rachmaninov's Piano Concertos complete, by Earl Wild (piano) conducted by Horenstein.
You won't fall asleep, I promise you.

 

[JDl]

Actually I remember this stuff, and yes they did, and they still do because most analogue masters done back in the day sound like crap on CD because they try to clean up the sound and ruin it in the process.

I don't understand where your coming from.
I gave up listening to rock music about 5 years ago even though * had no complaints about sound quality on CD with my own equipment.
Some of the best recordings I have on CD were recorded between 1965 or so and 1990. And some newer ones as well.
For example Beethoven Piano Sonatas played by Emil Gilels, recorded by Deutsche Grammophon in the 1980s are absolutely wonderful recordings. On CD on my equipment the sound is sublime.
Similarly, virtually every recording of anything by the Concertgebouw Orchestra between mid 60s and 90s again, fantastic.
Beethoven 9 Symphonies, again Deutsche Grammophon, 1963, Karajan fantastic. All on CD.
It all depends what CD player, what amp, and what speakers. A lot of CD players make music sound awful, but not all CD players.

 

[spl84]

I'm sure people with large CD collections would argue with this statement. If you want to own all your music, then physical media is the way to go. I don't see the difference in owning shelves full of vinyl, or CD. CD's are smaller so from a practical perspective, CD wins again. I double click on tunes and podcasts and I get instant access to over 100 million files. No storage space required. Vinyl lovers are limiting their choice and sacrificing sound quality. I like streaming my music because I like an easy life.

I like both but I prefer physical media because I hate having yet another set of menus to cycle through and connections to this, connections to that. Its just another hassle I'd rather not deal with. Your internet goes down? Guess what... no music, probably even if you've purchased it, lol.

 

[podknocker]

I like both but I prefer physical media because I hate having yet another set of menus to cycle through and connections to this, connections to that. Its just another hassle I'd rather not deal with. Your internet goes down? Guess what... no music, probably even if you've purchased it, lol.

The failure of an interconnect connection is wildly exaggerated on this forum. My internet connections, either 5G or the ADSL previously, have never failed in 25 years. The last time my internet went down, I was using a dial up modem to connect to Freeserve. In the event of a failure, I could resort to my CDs, or the FLAC copies on my thumb drive. Losing access to online music would be my least concern and I'd be more worried about the loss of social media and other services. My interconnection is more than an online jukebox. It takes seconds to search for an artist, or album on my PC or laptop, using the Spotify connect feature and this is much quicker than searching through CDs, or LPs. My CDs are in a box now and I doubt I will ever play them again. Most of the music I listen to online will never be available on CD anyway and as I've said before, even if all the music was available on CD, it would cost a fortune to buy and I would have nowhere to store thousands of CDs. Finding a physical CD amongst a possible thousand would take much longer than just typing the album name into Spotify search. Having access to every album and podcast within seconds is incredible and there is no chance of me returning to any physical format now. I just copied and pasted 'Beethoven 9 Symphonies, again Deutsche Grammophon, 1963, Karajan' from post #136 above from JDL and Spotify found this within a second and I was playing this within another 2 seconds. I can't see any advantage using physical media, when a 100 million tunes and podcasts are available within seconds. Why bother with thousands of expensive and bulky CDs or LPs?

 

[davidf]

Having access to every album and podcast within seconds is incredible...

Well, not EVERY album...

 

[podknocker]

Well, not EVERY album...

More than available on CD or vinyl and virtually instant access to every available album. There might be some very old and obscure albums not available online and I'm not bothered about those. I listen to 2 or 3 new albums a day and there's more than enough to get through for the remainder of my life. I don't understand the reluctance to accept music streaming is more practical, cheaper and of equal, or higher quality than physical meda. There are no real disadvantages.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

It's obviously a small number of albums, but there are some I love that aren't on Spotify, and several others where the versions are different (and basically pants). I am pretty sure if I were starting off now I'd do as everyone else and stream all the way, but I can't feel it would be worth ditching my CDs now just for some added convenience. They've been with me throughout my life.

 

[podknocker]

It's obviously a small number of albums, but there are some I love that aren't on Spotify, and several others where the versions are different (and basically pants). I am pretty sure if I were starting off now I'd do as everyone else and stream all the way, but I can't feel it would be worth ditching my CDs now just for some added convenience. They've been with me throughout my life.

I've had many of my CDs nearly 4 decades, but unlike many on here, I don't have a sentimental attachment to 5 inch discs of polycarbonate, never mind 12 inch lumps of vinyl. These things are just not worth getting emotional about. 'Some added convenience' is quite an understatement. Again, having access to 100 million tunes and podcasts, is far more convenient financially, practically and the quality is also there. I used to cherish my CDs, but all this music is online now, with millions of other albums I could never find on CD or download and the potential cost would run into tens of thousands of pounds. The arguments against streaming are getting weaker by the day and I thought more people on here would be more excited about the devices now available to stream music. It's state of the art technology and I love my current setup. There would be zero benefits ditching my streaming amp and trying to find and pay for a huge number of CDs. I'm curious to know what albums are not available online. I get the feeling 'anti-streamers' go out of their way to find an album not available online. There can't be many albums not available online and complaining about the lack of very obscure albums is odd. Most people and it must be more than 99%, are able to find over 99% of their music. I'm paying £11 a month for Spotify and it's on 24/7 and muted at night. My tunes are a button press away, or a quick search.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

The arguments against streaming are getting weaker by the day

You're right that it's more than some added convenience, but I'm not arguing against streaming myself, merely stating that I'm perfectly happy with how I choose to listen. Though I'll add my usual rider that often going up to the shelves prompts me to listen to something that I might not have thought of. If I sourced all my music via phone or streamer, that wouldn't happen - and as I listen to little new music, I would be worse off if I didn't have this quirk of actually having the discs themselves.

But I can't get my head around not living and letting live in this respect - I genuinely don't care how others choose to listen, and will never subscribe to the notion that there's a right and a wrong.

 

[RTHerringbone]

I do find it peculiar to so resolutely bang one drum in a multi-drum orchestra when there's no need to.

I love streaming and it represents 95% of my listening source. I love the cost efficiency and the convenience, but whilst it ticks those boxes, it is an impersonal experience that lacks a bit of soul and process, and I don't think anyone can unequivocally state that streamed content is equal to or better than physical, as I don't believe that to be the case on every occasion.

Sure, it could be on par if (ironically) the original physical media has been losslessly ripped or a bit-perfect digital version has been streamed, but I'd wager that a large proportion of peoples' streams are Spotify where it's simply not the case that this content is always (ever?) up to the standard of the original physical media.

I just look at them as compatible mediums with no right and wrong, and they have situational uses. It's just very bizarre to always look for one winner when there isn't even a competition.

 

[podknocker]

You're right that it's more than some added convenience, but I'm not arguing against streaming myself, merely stating that I'm perfectly happy with how I choose to listen. Though I'll add my usual rider that often going up to the shelves prompts me to listen to something that I might not have thought of. If I sourced all my music via phone or streamer, that wouldn't happen - and as I listen to little new music, I would be worse off if I didn't have this quirk of actually having the discs themselves.

But I can't get my head around not living and letting live in this respect - I genuinely don't care how others choose to listen, and will never subscribe to the notion that there's a right and a wrong.

I agree there's no right or wrong and it's up to the individual. My argument is always going to be why people try to dismiss streaming as a better method, without any drawbacks. I've always felt there's a Luddite mentality out there, doing its best to try and keep music access in the past. If you're happy fiddling around with vinyl, then fine, but I don't know why many want to make their lives harder, when the industry is offering a better alternative to music access. It's like having a new car and wanting a wind up engine again, or seeing OLED TVs in a shop window and longing for a small black and white CRT TV. It's the opposition to progress that I find confusing.

 

[podknocker]

I do find it peculiar to so resolutely bang one drum in a multi-drum orchestra when there's no need to.

I love streaming and it represents 95% of my listening source. I love the cost efficiency and the convenience, but whilst it ticks those boxes, it is an impersonal experience that lacks a bit of soul and process, and I don't think anyone can unequivocally state that streamed content is equal to or better than physical, as I don't believe that to be the case on every occasion.

Sure, it could be on par if (ironically) the original physical media has been losslessly ripped or a bit-perfect digital version has been streamed, but I'd wager that a large proportion of peoples' streams are Spotify where it's simply not the case that this content is always (ever?) up to the standard of the original physical media.

I just look at them as compatible mediums with no right and wrong, and they have situational uses. It's just very bizarre to always look for one winner when there isn't even a competition.

I agree a CD will sound better than my Spotify account, but many platforms offer CD quality, or higher. If they use masters destined for CD production, then they will be bit for bit copies and should sound the same.

 

[twinkletoes]

The biggest issue with subscription services is that they’re another subscription and its hard for many to see the value in renting.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

The biggest issue with subscription services is that they’re another subscription. and its hard for many to see the value in renting.

I suspect for those who have broad tastes and who exercise them that the VFM equation makes streaming make massive financial sense.

 

[abacus]

More than available on CD or vinyl and virtually instant access to every available album. There might be some very old and obscure albums not available online and I'm not bothered about those. I listen to 2 or 3 new albums a day and there's more than enough to get through for the remainder of my life. I don't understand the reluctance to accept music streaming is more practical, cheaper and of equal, or higher quality than physical meda. There are no real disadvantages.

Nobody is afraid to accept streaming as it is great to find new music, (Although most of it is not to my taste) but they also prefer physical media.
Each to their own, (No 2 people are the same) something you cannot seem to grasp, thus you assume that everybody must be the same as you, which is a complete nonsense.

Bill

 

[abacus]

I've had many of my CDs nearly 4 decades, but unlike many on here, I don't have a sentimental attachment to 5 inch discs of polycarbonate, never mind 12 inch lumps of vinyl. These things are just not worth getting emotional about. 'Some added convenience' is quite an understatement. Again, having access to 100 million tunes and podcasts, is far more convenient financially, practically and the quality is also there. I used to cherish my CDs, but all this music is online now, with millions of other albums I could never find on CD or download and the potential cost would run into tens of thousands of pounds. The arguments against streaming are getting weaker by the day and I thought more people on here would be more excited about the devices now available to stream music. It's state of the art technology and I love my current setup. There would be zero benefits ditching my streaming amp and trying to find and pay for a huge number of CDs. I'm curious to know what albums are not available online. I get the feeling 'anti-streamers' go out of their way to find an album not available online. There can't be many albums not available online and complaining about the lack of very obscure albums is odd. Most people and it must be more than 99%, are able to find over 99% of their music. I'm paying £11 a month for Spotify and it's on 24/7 and muted at night. My tunes are a button press away, or a quick search.

A vast amount on streaming are re-masters and unfortunately compared to the originals (That are now on only on physical media) suck, big time.

Bill