Cyrus 6xp or Leema Pulse for RS6

[CnoEvil]

LevK

I now have further information for you.

As I suspected, the Vincent T.A.C SV 236 has had an upgrade to the SV 236 MK

The original mark 1 : 100w into 8 ohms / 180w into 4 ohms....if this is the amp you were sold, then you need to make sure you got a good discount, as the new model has been around since at least 2009.

This amp was Editors choice (Absolute Sounds Mag) for several years, and is known for its remarkable value for money. It's a German amp made in China (to German standards/specs)

The new model has an extra 50w (as per my spec above), upgraded power supply with voltage stablization and a few wiring changes.

Also check out the review by "6 moons"...all this should help put your mind to rest.

Cno

 

[bluenose]

Just to chip in, I was looking to upgrade last year from a Cyrus 5 amp but after demos with Cyrus, naim, Moon, Arcam I just wasnt happy with any, Cyrus being the best. Then the Sugden was suggested and despite being over my initial budget that was what I bought and I'm happy using it with my MA RS6's. This combo certainly sounds loud enough despite the Sugdens low rating and is much easier on the ears than the Cyrus was.

 

[Anonymous]

CNOEvil, thanks a lot for your information and respectful approach.

I miss something in the sound I hear, some middle detalization, which I wasn't lacking during demo. I think of returning and changing for T.A.C.-88 fully tubed...But I'm not sure I will get what I'm seeking. Can this lack of middle frequencies and stage detalization be because of interconnect wires? Or maybe it's because those espensive Focals? If it's because of that, I'm calm - it's just matter of time to arrive there. If it's really not matching amp, then I'm in trouble...

What do you think, could it be better for example with pre-amplifier purchased in future? Or maybe to go on rolling tubes? SO many opportunities in this field...I begin to sink a little.

 

[CnoEvil]

No problem

Let your ears guide you or you will probably end up unhappy.

You need to double check that the tube amp will drive your speakers effectively.

Until you hear the system as it was in the shop....in your home, you won't know if is your room acoustics/cables/speakers that are the problem.

A system is all about balance, so if one (or more) area is wrong, then you have a series of compensations to get the right end result. You probably need to hear the Vincent with different kit and see if you like the result. Then you know that you can upgrade in the future and in what direction.

I think an i/c can help, but if the problem is the source, then that is what's passed on. IMO Good mains cables can have even more effect......borrow the ones from the shop.

The amp will have the biggest effect on the sound, and the tubes should give the body to the sound that you are missing.

The difficulty I'm having is that you are listening to bits of kit that I don't like ie. MA Speakers, CA CD player, Nordost cables, Focal Speakers! That doesn't matter to you, but makes giving advice more difficult.

Keep trying till you hit on the right combo.....but it sounds as if that Tubes are the answer, while you are keeping your source and speakers.

If you get the T.A.C. 88, also borrow the cables that you heard with it.

Cno

 

[Anonymous]

CNOEvil, thank you a lot.

 

[Anonymous]

Finally, gave up analyzing and just changed to fully tubed T.A.C.-88. Amazing difference in sound character and got what was missed. The price difference I took with two good power supply cords (Furutech) and interconnect from Nordost (Blue Heaven).
I may presume that partly sound of Vincent 236Mk2 was not yet burned, it was brand new amp. But doesn't really matter, I've moved away from flatness of semiconductor amplification.

Probably, next step will be source change (liked Leema Stream a lot), pre-amp (not sure really needed) and - the most fun - tubes rolling.

Thanks everyone responded and supported!

 

[CnoEvil]

Finally, gave up analyzing and just changed to fully tubed T.A.C.-88. Amazing difference in sound character and got what was missed. The price difference I took with two good power supply cords (Furutech) and interconnect from Nordost (Blue Heaven). I may presume that partly sound of Vincent 236Mk2 was not yet burned, it was brand new amp. But doesn't really matter, I've moved away from flatness of semiconductor amplification. Probably, next step will be source change (liked Leema Stream a lot), pre-amp (not sure really needed) and - the most fun - tubes rolling. Thanks everyone responded and supported!

There's talking yourself into liking a sound, and then there's just loving the sound.....now you know the difference....great stuff.

All the best

Cno

 

[Anonymous]

CnoEvil, thanks a lot! Was a great pleasure to discuss and helped to understand. Good luck to you as well!

 

[Thumpa]

Finally, gave up analyzing and just changed to fully tubed T.A.C.-88. Amazing difference in sound character and got what was missed. The price difference I took with two good power supply cords (Furutech) and interconnect from Nordost (Blue Heaven). I may presume that partly sound of Vincent 236Mk2 was not yet burned, it was brand new amp. But doesn't really matter, I've moved away from flatness of semiconductor amplification. Probably, next step will be source change (liked Leema Stream a lot), pre-amp (not sure really needed) and - the most fun - tubes rolling. Thanks everyone responded and supported!

There's talking yourself into liking a sound, and then there's just loving the sound.....now you know the difference....great stuff. All the best Cno

Cno, LevK83, PP

Added thanks: Being in a similar position to you, LevK83, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this exchange. Very informative. Also valuable to me was your inclusion of details relating to your feelings and emotions: doubts, fatigue, confusion etc. Responses based on experience were obviously equally valuable to me.

*Having also experienced the Vincent SV-236-MkII Hybrid, I wonder if the issue niggling at you after purchase, LevK83, wasn't the amp skipping in and out of that first 10 watts of Class A? My understanding -- dependent on type of music, output level and other poss variations -- is that quite a lot of one's listening would come from that first 10 watts, but most certainly it would never be confined to it. A professional Canadian reviewer had the decency to point it out, unlike some, but ultimately glossed over it to an extent (if memory serves). I can't recall if I read the particular review before or after hearing the amp which drove the speakers I am about to buy (the 236 MkII can sound beautiful, and has all the other desired traits) but I passed on the Vincent because of its 'split personality'.

Again, thanks for sharing your experience/s.

Thumpa.

 

[CnoEvil]

*Having also experienced the Vincent SV-236-MkII Hybrid, I wonder if the issue niggling at you after purchase, LevK83, wasn't the amp skipping in and out of that first 10 watts of Class A? My understanding -- dependent on type of music, output level and other poss variations -- is that quite a lot of one's listening would come from that first 10 watts, but most certainly it would never be confined to it. A professional Canadian reviewer had the decency to point it out, unlike some, but ultimately glossed over it to an extent (if memory serves). I can't recall if I read the particular review before or after hearing the amp which drove the speakers I am about to buy (the 236 MkII can sound beautiful, and has all the other desired traits) but I passed on the Vincent because of its 'split personality'.

Again, thanks for sharing your experience/s.

Thumpa.

I have always found that an amp that has "x watts" in Class A, never really sounds like a full Class A one. This is also what Macspur found when he borrowed an ATC SIA2-150 (two thirds in class A) while his Sugden Masterclass was away. His thoughts are here (post no.13 on):
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/connecting-atc-scm-40s-help

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Levk83 It's great to hear back from you in so much detail.

What you are doing, is discovering the sound that is right for you, and it often doesn't lead where you expect. The only way is to listen to lots of kit and see where it leads. I think, what you are discovering, is that you like a clear, detailed sound while remaining sweet and musical....IMO this is the way music should sound, but it can be expensive to get right. You should probably focus your search towards solid state Class A (maybe Sugden) and tubes (eg. Puresound) or hybred (Pathos).......or Vincent

The Peachtree is definately worth a demo. With tubes, you need to make sure that any particular amp can drive your speakers, as these type of amps are often lower powered, and don't produce lots of current as the impedence drops.

IMO Nordost is lean, fast, detailed and unmusical..not my favorite cable.

You can do what is called "tube rolling" to tailor the sound....but you need to start off with a sound you like....and knowledgable advice is needed to go down this path.

I have no idea if the amp was faulty, though amps can heat up more on one side than the other, depending where the internals are located. As for a speaker gaining sound quicker...no idea, may be a quirk of the amp or sign of a fault.

For by-passing - the AV amp needs pre-outs to pass the signal to your amp, where it plugs into one of the inputs. If your stereo amp has HT by-pass, then it plugs into the input to allow that to happen.

I would not worry that an amp doubled it's power as impedence halves...it's a sign that it is a good design with plenty of current behind it. I have heard of Vincent, but never listened to one. Do a search on google, make sure there is a good warrenty and that parts are available.

Burn in - one of the most contentious issues on here... along with cables sounding different. Trust what your ears are telling you.

Regards

Cno