Chord Electronics DAVE DAC

[CnoEvil]

The same way everyone else or you do i suppose.

I would never claim to know if a system is accurate to the recording....I do however know if it's accurate to how acoustic instruments sound, as my benchmark is knowing how they should sound.

 

[Andrewjvt]

The same way everyone else or you do i suppose.

I would never claim to know if a system is accurate to the recording....I do however know if it's accurate to how acoustic instruments sound, as my benchmark is knowing how they should sound.

That a speaker/amp combo that has a veil will not produce piano, guitar, violin accurate or neutral as possible?

 

[CnoEvil]

That a speaker/amp combo that has a veil will not produce piano, guitar, violin accurate or neutral as possible?

I never said anything about veils....only that I don't know whether any component is totally accurate to the recording.

Is an expensive Chord amp more accurate than a Bryston? Is Cyrus more accurate than Audiolab? Is Focal more neutral than ATC?

IMO chasing total neutrality, that is revealing exactly what the mastering engineers intended, is like trying to find the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.....wheras chasing realism is easier to fathom, if you know how live instruments should sound.

Put the music first and you are less likely to go wrong.

 

[MajorFubar]

I hate to be pedantic but please read #10 again where I refer to my S8 Valve Amp and you reply by going on about trying to compensate for the fundamental flaws of one product by using another fundamentally flawed device.

You might have referred to it, but I didn't. There's no reason why I should think valve equipment is fundamentally flawed. But I do stand by my statement, which was meant generally: i.e. don't try to build a system around the sound of a source which basically you don't like in the hope you can compensate elsewhere. In this instance, don't hope that a forward harsh-sounding source (the DAC, in the op's opinion) will be tamed by an amp or speakers which with a more neutral source could end up sounding a bit dull and lifeless. The synergy may be great, but what will happen when you next buy a more neutral-sounding source is the amp and speakers are going to sound dull and lifeless, meaning a full change of system will be required.

That really was the sum of it. I didn't intend to stereotype any particular type or category of equipment. Stereotyping e.g. valves against solid states etc is not something I'm aware that I've ever done during my last 5500+ posts.

 

[Andrewjvt]

That a speaker/amp combo that has a veil will not produce piano, guitar, violin accurate or neutral as possible?

I never said anything about veils....only that I don't know whether any component is totally accurate to the recording.

Is an expensive Chord amp more accurate than a Bryston? Is Cyrus more accurate than Audiolab? Is Focal more neutral than ATC?

IMO chasing total neutrality, that is revealing exactly what the mastering engineers intended, is like trying to find the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.....wheras chasing realism is easier to fathom, if you know how live instruments should sound.

Put the music first and you are less likely to go wrong.

What im getting at is live music or real music is sometimes harsh and piercing. So if thats what is recorded (even though it might be uncomfortable to hear for a brief time) i want to hear it as original and not be veiled or smoothed over by the speakers.

Thats just my opionion. And in my opinion how it should be but also imo traditional hifi has steered away from this.

Thats why i prefer speakers like atc that is closer to pro.

 

[ellisdj]

Yeah but how do you know if it's intended harshness or just system making it so - I dont think there is a way to know

 

[Andrewjvt]

Yeah but how do you know if it's intended harshness or just system making it so - I dont think there is a way to know

You can easily hear when somethings not right or over done. Normal hf will grate you.

It will happen too often.
But intended harsh sounds should sound harsh is my point.

Im.not talking about overly bright speakers or an amp thats under powered on high volume causing harsh distortion.

 

[Macspur]

No way of knowing, but I also wondered if the psrticular Chord was just extremely accurate, and we've in fact become accustomed to some sort of digital smoothing from the regular DAC one might find in a regular CD player.

Warts and all

If it replaces a smile with a migraine, then it sort of defeats the purpose. *unknw*

It may well be that DAVE is extremely accurate. It was certainly digging out more audible, recorded information than my current DAC does. Quite a lot more in truth. However for me there is a fine line to be trodden between pure hifi and hifi musicality. I think the DAVE falls very much in to the pure hifi category, seeking maximum resolution, clarity and fidelity, whatever the musical cost may be. Personally I prefer my music to be, well... musical, and if such musicality necessitates that some of the satin gloss is allowed to remain unstripped by my DAC then so be it. Rather that than a sore head and my nerves on edge...

I am demoing a PS Audio Directstream DAC this weekend, which also looks to be quite promising. A lot of the decoding philosophy of the DAVE is in the Directstream, but I understand that they present quite differently. The Directstream also takes advantage of FPGA's programmability with multiple firmware options available, which are intended to sequentially improve the DAC. Will keep you posted...

Will be interested in your thoughts on the PS Audio DAC... I have one as you can see in my sig and found it extremely good. However, I've got the chance to demo a Metrum Octive MKII this week, so may well be swapping.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[CnoEvil]

What im getting at is live music or real music is sometimes harsh and piercing.

I'm referring to references like Piano, Violin, Soprano, plucked Double Bass and the spoken voice....all should be without harshness and sound realistic.

Even the clash of Cymbals shouldn't be overly harsh, but exciting.

I have yet to go to a classical concert or opera that sounded piercing....these are my references.

 

[Native_bon]

What im getting at is live music or real music is sometimes harsh and piercing. 

I'm referring to references like Piano, Violin, Soprano, plucked Double Bass and the spoken voice....all should be without harshness and sound realistic.

Even the clash of Cymbals shouldn't be overly harsh, but exciting.

I have yet to go to a classical concert or opera that sounded piercing....these are my references.

I think you have made very good points as regards references. Believability and realism is key.

 

[Andrewjvt]

What im getting at is live music or real music is sometimes harsh and piercing. 

I'm referring to references like Piano, Violin, Soprano, plucked Double Bass and the spoken voice....all should be without harshness and sound realistic.

Even the clash of Cymbals shouldn't be overly harsh, but exciting.

I have yet to go to a classical concert or opera that sounded piercing....these are my references.

Sitting in audience for sure at that certain genre but have you been to a heavy metal concert recently?
It all depends how it is recorded.

If you sat next to a drummer and he constantly smashes cymbals in your ear it would hurt. So if someone records that sound it should also sound harsh on the recording and not veiled off to make it nicer.

I aggree that clasical is better recorded in most cases starting off low level them building up.

Just yesterday i was checking dynamic range of Ravel bolero. Starts off barely listenable then storms in at the middle to end. I wish all recordings of the music i like was recorded like that then we wouldnt be having the talk

 

[CnoEvil]

Sitting in audience for sure at that certain genre but have you been to a heavy metal concert recently? It all depends how it is recorded.

If you sat next to a drummer and he constantly smashes cymbals in your ear it would hurt. So if someone records that sound it should also sound harsh on the recording and not veiled off to make it nicer.

I aggree that clasical is better recorded in most cases starting off low level them building up.

Just yesterday i was checking dynamic range of Ravel bolero. Starts off barely listenable then storms in at the middle to end. I wish all recordings of the music i like was recorded like that then we wouldnt be having the talk

My only point in bringing this up is to show how I find the measure of a system.

My system is very clean/revealing, shows up differences in mastering, but doesn't exaggerate poorer recordings. My speakers are pretty neutral/detailed and my amp has remarkably low distortion.

 

[Gazzip]

Sitting in audience for sure at that certain genre but have you been to a heavy metal concert recently? It all depends how it is recorded.

If you sat next to a drummer and he constantly smashes cymbals in your ear it would hurt. So if someone records that sound it should also sound harsh on the recording and not veiled off to make it nicer.

I aggree that clasical is better recorded in most cases starting off low level them building up.

Just yesterday i was checking dynamic range of Ravel bolero. Starts off barely listenable then storms in at the middle to end. I wish all recordings of the music i like was recorded like that then we wouldnt be having the talk

My only point in bringing this up is to show how I find the measure of a system.

My system is very clean/revealing, shows up differences in mastering, but doesn't exaggerate poorer recordings. My speakers are pretty neutral/detailed and my amp has remarkably low distortion.

I had an interesting experience yesterday evening. On a whim I purchased a pair of almost mint EB Acoustics EB2 (£100 bargain!) and hooked them up to my second system in place of my incumbent Q Acoustics 3020's. We had music playing quietly in the background through them as my wife and I sat reading, chatting, the usual Tueday evening stuff when the rugrats are in bed.

The thing was that the music was no longer in the background at all. It was actually quite distracting, almost annoying in a way. Putting aside the fact that it was Jo Whiley on BBC Radio 2, who plays stuff that can often be sonically annoying, I got to thinking abut the Chord DAVE again. The EB2's share a number of characteristics with the DAVE not least that they are both revealing and uncoloured. I got to thinking that perhaps I just have a dislike of uncoloured equipment and that the DAVE is doing a fundamentally sterling job. It dawned on me at that point that I may not actually like uncoloured HiFi! Am I a philistine!?

 

[CnoEvil]

Am I a philistine!?

Yup....but one that follows enjoyment and knows how to achieve it (mostly).

 

[Infiniteloop]

Sitting in audience for sure at that certain genre but have you been to a heavy metal concert recently? It all depends how it is recorded.

If you sat next to a drummer and he constantly smashes cymbals in your ear it would hurt. So if someone records that sound it should also sound harsh on the recording and not veiled off to make it nicer.

I aggree that clasical is better recorded in most cases starting off low level them building up.

Just yesterday i was checking dynamic range of Ravel bolero. Starts off barely listenable then storms in at the middle to end. I wish all recordings of the music i like was recorded like that then we wouldnt be having the talk

My only point in bringing this up is to show how I find the measure of a system.

My system is very clean/revealing, shows up differences in mastering, but doesn't exaggerate poorer recordings. My speakers are pretty neutral/detailed and my amp has remarkably low distortion.

I had an interesting experience yesterday evening. On a whim I purchased a pair of almost mint EB Acoustics EB2 (£100 bargain!) and hooked them up to my second system in place of my incumbent Q Acoustics 3020's. We had music playing quietly in the background through them as my wife and I sat reading, chatting, the usual Tueday evening stuff when the rugrats are in bed.

The thing was that the music was no longer in the background at all. It was actually quite distracting, almost annoying in a way. Putting aside the fact that it was Jo Whiley on BBC Radio 2, who plays stuff that can often be sonically annoying, I got to thinking abut the Chord DAVE again. The EB2's share a number of characteristics with the DAVE not least that they are both revealing and uncoloured. I got to thinking that perhaps I just have a dislike of uncoloured equipment and that the DAVE is doing a fundamentally sterling job. It dawned on me at that point that I may not actually like uncoloured HiFi! Am I a philistine!?

If you're a Philistine then so am I. - If honesty to the recording means a sound like nails down a blackboard, count me out.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Sitting in audience for sure at that certain genre but have you been to a heavy metal concert recently? It all depends how it is recorded.

If you sat next to a drummer and he constantly smashes cymbals in your ear it would hurt. So if someone records that sound it should also sound harsh on the recording and not veiled off to make it nicer.

I aggree that clasical is better recorded in most cases starting off low level them building up.

Just yesterday i was checking dynamic range of Ravel bolero. Starts off barely listenable then storms in at the middle to end. I wish all recordings of the music i like was recorded like that then we wouldnt be having the talk

My only point in bringing this up is to show how I find the measure of a system.

My system is very clean/revealing, shows up differences in mastering, but doesn't exaggerate poorer recordings. My speakers are pretty neutral/detailed and my amp has remarkably low distortion.

There is what i call unatural veiling what i have spoke about but also an unatural exaggeration that is also wrong imo.

Nothing should be added or subtracted. Good stuff should play it well. (As im sure yours does btw)

Its my opinion, though, that a lot of modern hifi speakers are holding back in certain aspects as for the ease of listening and has become a different sound to accurate honest playback or pro style playback.

So when a speaker is honest (not adding or subtracting) gets labelled as 'aggresive or painful' etc as many audiophiles have become desensitized to normal sounds due to this. Also the honest speaker then gets blamed for poor dynamic range recordings.

Its just an opinion and im not aiming at you in any way, promise.
I know that you know whats what.