Chord Electronics DAVE DAC

[Andrewjvt]

Not negating anyone's experiences here, but having a component at DAVE's level, one had better have amplification, speakers and *source* to match. Any weakness in any such component will be thrown up ruthlessly I would imagine.

I konw what you are saying but define the DAVE's level if you dare...

FWIW the rest of my digital setup consists of PMC FACT 12's, an ASR Emitter 2 amplifier, Innuous Zennith server and an Esoteric CD transport. I consider my system to be batting in the same league as DAVE, but others may disagree.

I think gazzips kit is more than up to task of the dave.

I think gazzips kit is a lot better than most of us in here but he does not brag about it

 

[Andrewjvt]

Could be the compressed music recordings also.

Id be happy to pay more for uncompressed versions of the cds. Its a big problem with revealing kit.

Although the midrange comment regarding the dave is making me not want to consider it

 

[manicm]

Not negating anyone's experiences here, but having a component at DAVE's level, one had better have amplification, speakers and *source* to match. Any weakness in any such component will be thrown up ruthlessly I would imagine.

I konw what you are saying but define the DAVE's level if you dare...

FWIW the rest of my digital setup consists of PMC FACT 12's, an ASR Emitter 2 amplifier, Innuous Zennith server and an Esoteric CD transport. I consider my system to be batting in the same league as DAVE, but others may disagree.

I think gazzips kit is more than up to task of the dave.

I think gazzips kit is a lot better than most of us in here but he does not brag about it

...as you missed my acknowledgement...

 

[nopiano]

No way of knowing, but I also wondered if the psrticular Chord was just extremely accurate, and we've in fact become accustomed to some sort of digital smoothing from the regular DAC one might find in a regular CD player.

 

[Andrewjvt]

No way of knowing, but I also wondered if the psrticular Chord was just extremely accurate, and we've in fact become accustomed to some sort of digital smoothing from the regular DAC one might find in a regular CD player. 

Warts and all

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hope to be upgrading to the Arcam 850 soon. Can't wait.

Hi Native_bon

A fantastic amp and with Dirac room correction providing the icing on the cake.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Yes of course, I demo'd once at Oranges & lemons in London. Instruments sounded so real with Dirac. Will be going to do one more demo before taking the plunge.

Hi Native_bon

Nice one

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

No way of knowing, but I also wondered if the psrticular Chord was just extremely accurate, and we've in fact become accustomed to some sort of digital smoothing from the regular DAC one might find in a regular CD player.

Warts and all

If it replaces a smile with a migraine, then it sort of defeats the purpose. *unknw*

 

[Infiniteloop]

It might do but you shouldn't need to compensate a fundamentally flawed product by deliberately mating it with another fundamentally flawed product and hoping their flaws cancel out each other. It's a recipe for disappointment should you ever need to use either one of them with something else. Same goes for people who try to tame bright amps with bass heavy speakers.  Change one thing and your whole kit needs replaced.

IMO. There are those who chase that most elusive of quality - "Neutrality"....and those that only worry about what comes out of the speakers (and whether they enjoy it).

Both views are valid. One is inclined to come from a "Science Brain"; the other from an "Art Brain". I'm very much the latter, believing that emotional enjoyment from the end result, is the whole point.

Any system can leave you disappointed with the addition of the wrong piece of kit....the secret is picking the right componant, by using your ears before shelling out cash.

Zackly.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I don't really see why you think Valve Amps are fundamentally flawed. Yes they don't measure as well as some SS Amps, but this is about sound quality and few SS Amps come close to a good valve Amp in the all important midrange.  Most speakers measure far less well than valves, so wouldn't you call those fundamentally flawed too?

I've said before that I couldn't care less how something measures. How it sounds is far more important. 

Take a collection of flat measuring components and the end result is likely to be disappointing.

In my experience it's about synergy. 

Sorry you think I have some kind of anti-valve agenda, you’re reading far more into what I wrote than what is actually there.

What other inference do you think I could possibly glean from your statement that Valve Amps are fundamentally flawed?

 

[Alberich]

I really wanted it to be amazing. Pretty gutted actually.

Do you think a warm-sounding Amp might help? I use a Chord Qute with my S8 and the sound is nothing like you describe. I can (and do) listen for hours on end with no fatigue.

It might do but you shouldn't need to compensate a fundamentally flawed product by deliberately mating it with another fundamentally flawed product and hoping their flaws cancel out each other. It's a recipe for disappointment should you ever need to use either one of them with something else. Same goes for people who try to tame bright amps with bass heavy speakers.  Change one thing and your whole kit needs replaced.

I don't really see why you think Valve Amps are fundamentally flawed. Yes they don't measure as well as some SS Amps, but this is about sound quality and few SS Amps come close to a good valve Amp in the all important midrange.  Most speakers measure far less well than valves, so wouldn't you call those fundamentally flawed too?

I've said before that I couldn't care less how something measures. How it sounds is far more important. 

Take a collection of flat measuring components and the end result is likely to be disappointing.

In my experience it's about synergy. 

Infiniteloop, your tolerance is something to be admired,
Although to experience every day the magic a system like yours creates must make criticism of it seem grossly impotent and rather laughable.
I certainly wouldn't call your S8 fundamentally flawed.
To quote youth culture
Haters got to hate.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I really wanted it to be amazing. Pretty gutted actually.

Do you think a warm-sounding Amp might help? I use a Chord Qute with my S8 and the sound is nothing like you describe. I can (and do) listen for hours on end with no fatigue.

It might do but you shouldn't need to compensate a fundamentally flawed product by deliberately mating it with another fundamentally flawed product and hoping their flaws cancel out each other. It's a recipe for disappointment should you ever need to use either one of them with something else. Same goes for people who try to tame bright amps with bass heavy speakers. Change one thing and your whole kit needs replaced.

I don't really see why you think Valve Amps are fundamentally flawed. Yes they don't measure as well as some SS Amps, but this is about sound quality and few SS Amps come close to a good valve Amp in the all important midrange. Most speakers measure far less well than valves, so wouldn't you call those fundamentally flawed too?

I've said before that I couldn't care less how something measures. How it sounds is far more important.

Take a collection of flat measuring components and the end result is likely to be disappointing.

In my experience it's about synergy.

Infiniteloop, your tolerance is something to be admired, Although to experience every day the magic a system like yours creates must make criticism of it seem grossly impotent and rather laughable. I certainly wouldn't call your S8 fundamentally flawed. To quote youth culture Haters got to hate.

Why, thank you. If you're ever in South Cheshire, drop me a line and we could organise a demo.

 

[Gazzip]

No way of knowing, but I also wondered if the psrticular Chord was just extremely accurate, and we've in fact become accustomed to some sort of digital smoothing from the regular DAC one might find in a regular CD player.

Warts and all

If it replaces a smile with a migraine, then it sort of defeats the purpose. *unknw*

It may well be that DAVE is extremely accurate. It was certainly digging out more audible, recorded information than my current DAC does. Quite a lot more in truth. However for me there is a fine line to be trodden between pure hifi and hifi musicality. I think the DAVE falls very much in to the pure hifi category, seeking maximum resolution, clarity and fidelity, whatever the musical cost may be. Personally I prefer my music to be, well... musical, and if such musicality necessitates that some of the satin gloss is allowed to remain unstripped by my DAC then so be it. Rather that than a sore head and my nerves on edge...

I am demoing a PS Audio Directstream DAC this weekend, which also looks to be quite promising. A lot of the decoding philosophy of the DAVE is in the Directstream, but I understand that they present quite differently. The Directstream also takes advantage of FPGA's programmability with multiple firmware options available, which are intended to sequentially improve the DAC. Will keep you posted...

 

[Andrewjvt]

No way of knowing, but I also wondered if the psrticular Chord was just extremely accurate, and we've in fact become accustomed to some sort of digital smoothing from the regular DAC one might find in a regular CD player. 

Warts and all

If it replaces a smile with a migraine, then it sort of defeats the purpose. *unknw*

If the studio has recorded it to induce a headache then we need to find a new artist. I really dont want any equipment i own to give me an interpretation or what it thinks i should hear as i feel im being cheated or robbed.

Its down to crap recordings i feel.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Gazzip, I almost daren't suggest this but seeing as how you've got the very revealing Dave DAC and a great system behind it, How about seeing if different cables affect the sound? I appreciate this leads into a dangerous area, but with such a great system, well, why not?

 

[CnoEvil]

If the studio has recorded it to induce a headache then we need to find a new artist. I really dont want any equipment i own to give me an interpretation or what it thinks i should hear as i feel im being cheated or robbed.

Its down to crap recordings i feel.

How do you know its "accuracy" that you're listening to and not the exaggeration of certain areas? *scratch_one-s_head*

What is the point of listening to music, if you're having to do it through gritted teeth and ear defenders? *wink*

 

[Gazzip]

If the studio has recorded it to induce a headache then we need to find a new artist. I really dont want any equipment i own to give me an interpretation or what it thinks i should hear as i feel im being cheated or robbed.

Its down to crap recordings i feel.

How do you know its "accuracy" that you're listening to and not the exaggeration of certain areas? *scratch_one-s_head*

What is the point of listening to music, if you're having to do it through gritted teeth and ear defenders? *wink*

Make no mistake the DAVE is an astonishing retreiver of information. However my gut feeling on this is that the deeper you dig in to a digital recording the more "digital" it will sound.

I can usually spot digital as digital (not analogue) in spoken voice. Not in the HF siblance but in the upper mids that sit at the back of a voice. Does that make sense to anyone else?

Anyway, my point is that perhaps the boffins at Chord have created the most analytical DAC ever made, but have realised in its protoyped infancy that a really revealing DAC sounds digital. So what do they do? Filter out the offending, digital sounding frequencies of course, hence the "missing" upper mids I refered to in my OP.

What do you think? Complete supposition but possible, no?

 

[ellisdj]

If you can hear backgorund information on the Dave dac and not on others as was my experience why is that.

Technically it must be producing a more accurate sine wave with lower distortion - sure a more technical explanation is not far behind.

Therefore its quite simply the other dacs are missing this information out - so one has a choice to make.

It would be hard for me to live without that information once I knew it was there - however you cant live with a sound you dont enjoy either.

So one has an option - build a system around such a product to find the balance of that detail and enjoyment or Not and live without the resolution that is quite clearly there. However I have found on the path of progression I often feel like I have gone sideways or backwards before it clicks and I actually move forward. Its quite often after making certain changes that other flaws are shown up - either fundamental or system orientated. Hence the merry go round we are all in except AVI owners obviously

What causes hardness or Brightness - I have not had a bright sound for so long I dont remember?

 

[chebby]

There are some systems (and components) that will not 'flatter' anything but perfect recordings. This trait is not necessarily dependent on cost. We all know the reviews of even entry level ATC speakers warn against feeding them sub-optimal content.

There are also different kinds of 'presentation' from various systems (and individual elements of systems). These suit people with different tastes. If one thing is true after all these years, it's that we can't all agree on how music should sound. (Otherwise there'd only be half a dozen systems to cover all budgets and power/size requirements.)

Buy it and let it dictate your listening based on only recordings that sound good through it.

Buy it and play everything you like, but accept that some of it will make you wince.

Buy something else that suits you and makes everything playable without pain. (You might not be able to tell the brand of plectrum being used but it still makes you feel groovy )

 

[CnoEvil]

What do you think? Complete supposition but possible, no?

Try a Linn DS. *diablo*

 

[nopiano]

What do you think? Complete supposition but possible, no?

Try a Linn DS. *diablo*

The PS and the Kilmax are both high end devices. Definitely worth an audition. RE the Linn, there will be a new batch of reboxed "Renew" ones with the release of the series 3.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Gazzip

dCS (incorporating their Ring DAC) are also worth bearing in mind

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MajorFubar]

What other inference do you think I could possibly glean from your statement that Valve Amps are fundamentally flawed?

I didn't say that anywhere at all. In fact valves weren't mentioned anywhere in the part of your post I quoted nor by my reply. Like I said, you read more into it than was there. Maybe it's the nature of the forum that people just read negativity into posts that isn't there. To clarify, even though IMO no clarification is needed, I don't particularly care whether we're talking about valves, solid state or cats whiskers. When you're into the realms of hoping the flaws in a component you fundamentally don't like will be cancelled out by flaws in another component, you have the wrong HiFi. Feel free to substitute the world 'flaws' with 'traits', 'characteristics', 'quaint idiosyncracies' or any other synonym which makes you accept that I wasn't having a specific dig at valve gear. Why the hell should I have been?!

 

[Native_bon]

If you can hear backgorund information on the Dave dac and not on others as was my experience why is that.

Technically it must be producing a more accurate sine wave with lower distortion - sure a more technical explanation is not far behind.

Therefore its quite simply the other dacs are missing this information out - so one has a choice to make.

It would be hard for me to live without that information once I knew it was there - however you cant live with a sound you dont enjoy either.

So one has an option - build a system around such a product to find the balance of that detail and enjoyment or Not and live without the resolution that is quite clearly there. However I have found on the path of progression I often feel like I have gone sideways or backwards before it clicks and I actually move forward. Its quite often after making certain changes that other flaws are shown up - either fundamental or system orientated. Hence the merry go round we are all in except AVI owners obviously

What causes hardness or Brightness - I have not had a bright sound for so long I dont remember?

Its simple, cause you are exploring all areas to get the very best from your system.

 

[Infiniteloop]

What other inference do you think I could possibly glean from your statement that Valve Amps are fundamentally flawed?

I didn't say that anywhere at all. In fact valves weren't mentioned anywhere in the part of your post I quoted nor by my reply. Like I said, you read more into it than was there. Maybe it's the nature of the forum that people just read negativity into posts that isn't there. To clarify, even though IMO no clarification is needed, I don't particularly care whether we're talking about valves, solid state or cats whiskers. When you're into the realms of hoping the flaws in a component you fundamentally don't like will be cancelled out by flaws in another component, you have the wrong HiFi. Feel free to substitute the world 'flaws' with 'traits', 'characteristics', 'quaint idiosyncracies' or any other synonym which makes you accept that I wasn't having a specific dig at valve gear. Why the hell should I have been?!

I hate to be pedantic but please read #10 again where I refer to my S8 Valve Amp and you reply by going on about trying to compensate for the fundamental flaws of one product by using another fundamentally flawed device.

 

[Andrewjvt]

If the studio has recorded it to induce a headache then we need to find a new artist. I really dont want any equipment i own to give me an interpretation or what it thinks i should hear as i feel im being cheated or robbed.

Its down to crap recordings i feel.

How do you know its "accuracy" that you're listening to and not the exaggeration of certain areas? *scratch_one-s_head*

What is the point of listening to music, if you're having to do it through gritted teeth and ear defenders? *wink*

The same way everyone else or you do i suppose.

I dont have any experience with equipment like this though so have never felt the effects of bad sound. I have felt the effects of badly compressed recordings though.