Changing all the system

[Cycleman]

hey to all. i decided to change every part of my system cause i not satisfied aboyt the low frequencies.so i want to take every part slowly....selling one by one....and everytime i will sell something i will take the new part.

so from where i must begin.My system is b&w 685 s2,nad 326bee and ifi micro.

my first thought is to take speakers.i saw many on the internet.i know you will tell me to listen first.i think not to take bookshelf speaker cause they don't have the low that i want. My eye felt in themonitor audio silver 10. it have 8 inch woofer and is a good company as i know.that about imaging. i want to take a speaker (the max 2000euro) with good bass and the best imaging.i love b&w's imaging.

second the amp. i see arcam fmj a39.i read that is a good amp.Do you know if it have tone controls?i like the nad for this reason.if it doesn't have....have a good bass or is neutural?!

the last one is the dac...but i will change it to the big future...so for now it's ok

please help me

 

[plastic penguin]

hey to all. i decided to change every part of my system cause i not satisfied aboyt the low frequencies.so i want to take every part slowly....selling one by one....and everytime i will sell something i will take the new part.

so from where i must begin.My system is b&w 685 s2,nad 326bee and ifi micro.

my first thought is to take speakers.i saw many on the internet.i know you will tell me to listen first.i think not to take bookshelf speaker cause they don't have the low that i want. My eye felt in themonitor audio silver 10. it have 8 inch woofer and is a good company as i know.that about imaging. i want to take a speaker (the max 2000euro) with good bass and the best imaging.i love b&w's imaging.

second the amp. i see arcam fmj a39.i read that is a good amp.Do you know if it have tone controls?i like the nad for this reason.if it doesn't have....have a good bass or is neutural?!

the last one is the dac...but i will change it to the big future...so for now it's ok

please help me

This sounds a bit drastic. I would start with the amp first: Think what you are finding is a lack of synergy. Based on that Rotel is a great match for B&W - they both share the same plant on the south coast of England

If that tickles your sonic buds you could upgrade the speakers to a B&W floorstander, should the need arise.

Alternatively, sell the lot and go for a powered or active speaker. Can't advise which of these would be best suited because I never heard a pair. But...

 

[chebby]

incorrect post

 

[Leeps]

Could you describe what you feel is lacking about the bass in your system?

Is it too slow or bloated or is there just not enough?

What's the size of your room? How far apart are your speakers at the moment and how close to the wall are they?

So often bass issues are related to the wrong speakers for the room. MA Silver 10's need a big room with plenty of free space behind them to prevent way too much bass dominating the room.

As always, get the right speakers for the room, then get the best amp for those speakers. Leaving the room and positioning out of the equation often leads to disappointment. I'm often astounded at how much money some people are willing to throw at a system only to undo its strengths by poor placement, hence the questions above.

 

[davedotco]

I remember when this was announced to great excitement only for it to be unavailable to buy for months and months, when it finally arrived everyone had lost interest.

Little bit behind the curve by modern standards, no Bluetooth, Airplay or streaming capability but despite that a very tidy little system. Similar function set to the bigger AVI but at less than half the price, combine a pair with a decent streamer (with digital out), and you have a very nice setup.

Note: Reply to Chebby's post, since deleted. Talking about the Quad 9AS actives.

 

[lpv]

good bass and the best imaging

hi cycleman.. visit some pro audio shops and have a listen to:

Adam A7X or A8X, Dynaudio BM12, Mackie HR824 Mk II, Neumann KH120A or Unity Audio The Super Rock.. I think you'll be positively surprised what these can do for you.. forget the separate amp and speakers all together.

 

[chebby]

I remember when this was announced to great excitement only for it to be unavailable to buy for months and months, when it finally arrived everyone had lost interest.

Little bit behind the curve by modern standards, no Bluetooth, Airplay or streaming capability but despite that a very tidy little system. Similar function set to the bigger AVI but at less than half the price, combine a pair with a decent streamer (with digital out), and you have a very nice setup.

Note: Reply to Chebby's post, since deleted. Talking about the Quad 9AS actives.

Yeah I realised (a bit late) that the op wanted a bigger and more expensive set-up. Sorry.

 

[davedotco]

I remember when this was announced to great excitement only for it to be unavailable to buy for months and months, when it finally arrived everyone had lost interest.

Little bit behind the curve by modern standards, no Bluetooth, Airplay or streaming capability but despite that a very tidy little system. Similar function set to the bigger AVI but at less than half the price, combine a pair with a decent streamer (with digital out), and you have a very nice setup.

Note: Reply to Chebby's post, since deleted. Talking about the Quad 9AS actives.

Yeah I realised (a bit late) that the op wanted a bigger and more expensive set-up. Sorry.

Of course given the op's requirement for better, more powerfull bass and given the current system, the obvious answer is to lose the NAD/B&W pairing and spend the entire budget on a pair of active monitors.

A pair of Adam A8x (around £1200pr) driven by the existing dac will be well within budget and very capable indeed. A better more flexible dac can be added later.

Admitedly a little industrial looking and probably lacking the necessary bling but performance wise...

 

[Andrewjvt]

I remember when this was announced to great excitement only for it to be unavailable to buy for months and months, when it finally arrived everyone had lost interest.

Little bit behind the curve by modern standards, no Bluetooth, Airplay or streaming capability but despite that a very tidy little system. Similar function set to the bigger AVI but at less than half the price, combine a pair with a decent streamer (with digital out), and you have a very nice setup.

Note:  Reply to Chebby's post, since deleted. Talking about the Quad 9AS actives.

Yeah I realised (a bit late) that the op wanted a bigger and more expensive set-up. Sorry.

Of course given the op's requirement for better, more powerfull bass and given the current system, the obvious answer is to lose the NAD/B&W pairing and spend the entire budget on a pair of active monitors.

A pair of Adam A8x (around £1200pr) driven by the existing dac will be well within budget and very capable indeed. A better more flexible dac can be added later.

Admitedly a little industrial looking and probably lacking the necessary bling but performance wise...

 

Is that the speakers you have?

 

[Cycleman]

i don't like rotel.it have bass is not punchy. B&w floorstanding for example cm9 s2...says 48hz to 28khz with 2x5inch bass...what the hell B&w?! where is the bass?!?!?!

about bass is that i don't have at all.i used to listen all arround music...but in tiesto or dance music they can't have the bass that i want.my room is 4,5mX3,7m.i put the speakers far from wall ....after near....i do everything i know.this speaker is bad in the bass.i used to listen with old speakers with 10" bass it was ok but with no so good resolution.

So don't tell me guys that a 2 way speaker with 5inch can do bass.....it can not at all.

 

[Snikoes]

Have you thought of keeping what you have and adding a subwoofer?

This would help you dial in as much or as little bass as you want.

BK electronics have a great range at fantastic prices in my opinion.

 

[davedotco]

I remember when this was announced to great excitement only for it to be unavailable to buy for months and months, when it finally arrived everyone had lost interest.

Little bit behind the curve by modern standards, no Bluetooth, Airplay or streaming capability but despite that a very tidy little system. Similar function set to the bigger AVI but at less than half the price, combine a pair with a decent streamer (with digital out), and you have a very nice setup.

Note: Reply to Chebby's post, since deleted. Talking about the Quad 9AS actives.

Yeah I realised (a bit late) that the op wanted a bigger and more expensive set-up. Sorry.

Of course given the op's requirement for better, more powerfull bass and given the current system, the obvious answer is to lose the NAD/B&W pairing and spend the entire budget on a pair of active monitors.

A pair of Adam A8x (around £1200pr) driven by the existing dac will be well within budget and very capable indeed. A better more flexible dac can be added later.

Admitedly a little industrial looking and probably lacking the necessary bling but performance wise...

Is that the speakers you have?

They are the speakers I would like (at that sort of price) if I had a little more space and a few less neighbours...*biggrin*

Actually the issue is primarily space and looks so a compromise had to be made with something a bit more 'friendly'.

So instead of these, on 15-18 inch stands...

I went for these...

In piano black. Though lacking the shear bass power of the A8x, these slim floorstanders are barely 6 inches wide, have 3 x 50 watt amplifiers and sound superb. Similar sort of price to the A8x but available for rather less as they are really not a lot of use in studio situations.

Bass response from the 2 x 5 inch drivers is fine for me, though should I get a bigger space (as planned) I shall probably add a sub, either the Adam or a BK.

 

[bluedroog]

I'd be very weary of making an expensive sideways step, don't rush in to this buying blind, you'll be left unsatisfied I suspect.

Your amp, while not hugley powerful is reviews as having bass as a strong point and given your B&Ws are hardly demanding speakers I think while and amp upgrade may help it isn't going to be the leap forward you're hoping for.

There are two best options IMO.

Sell up and go active. Active speakers do bass very well and there are many on the market who can dig pretty low. It may not be the bass you're expecting and you may find it isn't to your taste, your B&W speakers are quite coloured and you may expeirnce the cleaner bass as missing when in fact it is just more aurate. It is there, just not in your face unless it is on the source material.

I run a pair of Event Opals and find them excellent in this regard, I managed to get a pair new for £1,800. You'll need some form of pre-amp, if your NAD has pre-outs you can just use this.

Alternativley look to adding a subwoofer, or even better two. I have owned a BK XXLS400, 12" sealed sub and for the money it is a no brainer, not much will touch it for the price at about £450 I recall. You need to get a sub set up right but it is worth doing properly. At that price you may even want to consider a pair and some form of EQ such as MiniDSP or Antimode for a properly managed 2.2 system

 

[davedotco]

Are absolutely cracking speakers.

However recent price rises and exchange rate issues have pushed the price up around the £2800 mark, so a bit pricey for the OP's budget. Plenty of good options though.

The subwoofer solution may or may not suit. I know a fair few people who have bought then expecting 'more' bass from their system but what they get is more extended bass, not the same thing at all.

I have seen subs with the crossover frequency set really high in order to get 'more' bass, it sounds ghastly.

Most people playing popular music of any kind who want more bass usually want more 'kick' and bass presence, this is not what a sub does, so it often goes a bit wrong.

 

[Snikoes]

DDC - what are those slim floorstanders you've shown?

 

[Cycleman]

first a subwoofer for me is not a good solution.is not for music ....only for movies.a bass that is seperate is a problem in position and is not well controled with the other speakers...i read tha you must set up with the right way and i don't know how.

second i don't take active speaker.

i agree exactly with davedotco....i am afraid of it.so....what can i do.

 

[davedotco]

first a subwoofer for me is not a good solution.is not for music ....only for movies.a bass that is seperate is a problem in position and is not well controled with the other speakers...i read tha you must set up with the right way and i don't know how.

second i don't take active speaker.

i agree exactly with davedotco....i am afraid of it.so....what can i do.

Lots of money on passive setups, then lots of time convincing yourself that you like the results.

Look, I accept that the actve solution is not for everyone but a lot of users appear to want systems that play certain types of modern music that requires a very substantial bass performance.

Sure you can get big floorstanders that will do the job, but they will not be cheap, then expect to pay the same again for a suitable amplifier with the power and control that you need. Something like CM9s and a suitable amp could easily cost the best part of £4k and you still would not get the power and punch of the A8x, let alone Event Opals.

As always, it is your money and your choice...*unknw*

 

[rainsoothe]

first a subwoofer for me is not a good solution.is not for music ....only for movies.a bass that is seperate is a problem in position and is not well controled with the other speakers...i read tha you must set up with the right way and i don't know how.

second i don't take active speaker.

i agree exactly with davedotco....i am afraid of it.so....what can i do.

Lots of money on passive setups, then lots of time convincing yourself that you like the results.

Look, I accept that the actve solution is not for everyone but a lot of users appear to want systems that play certain types of modern music that requires a very substantial bass performance.

Sure you can get big floorstanders that will do the job, but they will not be cheap, then expect to pay the same again for a suitable amplifier with the power and control that you need. Something like CM9s and a suitable amp could easily cost the best part of £4k and you still would not get the power and punch of the A8x, let alone Event Opals.

As always, it is your money and your choice...*unknw*

+1

Martin Logan Motion series do the bass slam thing very nicely, but I think they might be out of budget and, for a room that size, might be overkill (most floorstanders will be anyways).

XTZ Master M2 might be worth looking into, along with a used Naim Supernait 1 - if you're still hell-bent on a passive setup. Oh, and Wharfedale Jade series do superb bass and imaging, but they need powerful amplification - the Nad 326 won't be enough I think.

 

[bluedroog]

first a subwoofer for me is not a good solution.is not for music ....only for movies.a bass that is seperate is a problem in position and is not well controled with the other speakers...i read tha you must set up with the right way and i don't know how.

second i don't take active speaker.

i agree exactly with davedotco....i am afraid of it.so....what can i do.

Why rule out active speakers? They seem ideal for you.

 

[Craig M.]

I agree with the shout for the Event Opals, sell everything and pair some with a cheap dac/pre (or keep an eye out for something like a 2nd hand Benchmark). It won't just be the bass that amazes you, I suspect you'll be staggered by them. They also come with room placement controls otherwise once the novelty wears off they might be too strong in the bass for a small room.

 

[gasolin]

Buchardt S300

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4NEeoYoLj4

http://www.buchardt-audio.com/collections/all

 

[thewinelake.]

Is OP saying he's scared of Active Speakers? Too scared even to audition them?

 

[Cycleman]

as i say i don't think that 5 or 6 or 8 inch bass in 2 way bookshelf will have tha bass that i want....

 

[bluedroog]

You're not really being clear about what you want and seem closed minded towards findly a solution. There have been good suggestions you are ruling out with giving adequate reason. There may well be one but we just don't know, by telling us why perhaps we can offer more help.

Why have you ruled out actives?

You appear to rule out a subwoofer because you can't be bothered investing a little time learning to set one up well. I did also suggest an EQ device from the likes of Antimode which will do most of the work for you.

Eventually, as budget dictates I think a 2.2 system with actives and active subs all EQ'ed would be EXACTLY what you are looking for, you perhaps need to be more open to suggestions you weren't expecting.

If you're hell bend on staying passive and want big cones then just get a pair of bass bins from the likes of Cerwin Vega, they do bass and are excellent for electronic music, although may not be as subtle for other genres. Give then a meaty amp with 100+ watts and plenty of current and you're good to go.

 

[Cycleman]

i am looking for floorstanding speakers.i had hear many active....i don't like.so who gonna help me about floorstanding?