Cambridge Azure 540A Balance problems

[admin_exported]

Just got a new 540A v2 integrated amp, and I'm having some problems with (im)balance. I contacted Cambridge: My post: I have a new 540A, and I notice that I'm getting more volume from the right channel than the left. This is less noticeable at higher volumes, but quite pronounced at low volumes. Is this something which will sort itself out as the amp gets fully run in, or does this require attention? Having switched round speakers, cables, sources, etc. to no avail I tried it with headphones and got the same thing, so it is definitely the amp. Their reply: Dear Sir, The volume potentiometer in the 3,5, and 640A is sequential- the signal starts in one channel and as the signal level increases, it moves to the other. There should be no imbalance from about 9 O'Clock onwards on the volume. If there is, you should contact the store with a view to an exchange. If you are listeing below this level, I would consider some form attentuation [sic] to raise the usable level of the volume. _________________ They're right, 9 o'clock is fine, but on my setup, 9 o'clock on the amp = the kind of volume where you have to shout at the person next to you on the sofa, so it's a bit impractical. I couldn't believe it was normal, so I took it back to the shop, who exchanged it. The replacement is exactly the same. I'm not amused, having spent £250 on my first "proper" amp. I'd be grateful for any comments or suggestions. Anyone else heard of this? And what is attenuation anyway? (Excuse my ignorance, I'm a newbie).

 

[matthewpiano]

...

 

[Anonymous]

yes, as was discussed recently in another thread, this problem extends right through the Azur range and was a source of a great deal of annoyance and frustration for me after reading all the hyped-up reveiws! also annoying was the fact that when i rang Richer Sounds to tell them of the problem i was having with the balance on the amp they thought it was a faulty unit (so much for product knowledge!) so i drove all the way in to Birmingham to replace it only to find that the new one had the same problem.
i also ended up selling my 640Cv2 because i became dissillusioned with CA - i replaced it with an Arcam CD72 and never looked back!

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but it goes further back than that as well... my CA A5 amp does the same. I tend to listen at the same volume, so have managed to get around it by using the balance control, but as the problem with the pot isn't linear, it only works if you re-adjust each time.

I completely agree - if CA are so good (as WHFSV keep saying) then why are so many people having the same problems? Also, I can't help noticing (maybe controversially) that most RS-owned products (ok, Audio Partnership - but Julian R alledgedly has a 51% share) seem to get a glowing review in WHFSV, even though sometimes the forums tell a different story...

 

[Anonymous]

oh dear this isnt going to go down well with certain people here... but yes you are right about the CA A5 - ive also owned one of these and it too suffers the same problem. I also wrote to CA to complain and they gave me the same spiel about the vol pots costing too much for their "budget" amps... i have owned some 10 different models of amps under the 300 quid mark and other than the CA ones none had any such problems with output at low levels. really does make you wonder why none of the reviewers mentioned this...

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Yeah, ok - point taken. I didn't mean to offend anyone, just wondered if anyone else felt the same...

Perhaps the review samples were serviced/checked before leaving the factory, and that is perhaps why nothing was said...

I also purchased a pair of Eltax Symphony 6s from RS quite a while back on the back of a glowing WHF review, and although they are a "nice" sounding pair of speakers, their detail retrieval leaves a lot to be desired...they are currently relegated to the "spare" system in the dining room along with a 20yr old technics amp and a cheapo DVD player!

But I'm wittering off topic now... sorry everyone...back to the 540!

 

[Cypher]

Tractorboy ; sell the CA amp, buy a Rotel RA-04. Problem solved and better buildquality and better sound

 

[Anonymous]

I have a cambridge amp and it sounds fine.No noticeable problems with balance. As for the amps not being good. i would strongly disagree with that. They sound excellent. I had an arcam A75+,myself, which was an £470 amp, and the cambridge wiped the floor with it. I do not always put a lot of store in reviews but you don't get awards and rave reviews from hi fi mags in the US,Uk and Europe, as the cambridge 640 did, by being duff.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies, it's reassuring to see that I'm not the only one that has found this er... quirk of Cambridge amps off-putting. I've bought several Cambridge products over the years, including my current CD player (540C) and always been extremely happy... but not this time. I went back to RS today and told them what Cambridge Audio said regarding the amp (see original post). RS were also pretty unimpressed and have offered to swap it over for another amp of the same value. I think I'll be going for the Marantz 6002, but until RS have some in stock, they offered to let me hold on to the 540C, so I'm not amp-less in the meantime. So, I'd have to say 10/10 for customer service at RS, but caveat emptor when it comes to Cambridge amps. After all, to paraphrase Cambridge "nah, they all do that mate". Very poor.

 

[Anonymous]

while i can see Fraziels point regarding the reviews i am surprised that he hasnt experienced the same problem with his amp as the rest of us CA owners - maybe his is a faulty (in which case the problem is fixed!?!?) unit or they accidentally put a decent volume pot in his!
i am surprised Andrew hasnt voiced his opinion on this topic...

 

[Anonymous]

I returned 6 A5's back to richer with the same problem. What p....d me off with them more than anything no one in the shop could explain why. Eventually had a gut full as my nearest richer is 110 miles away. Decided to go for the C500 Pre amp and P500 Power amp in the end. These were fine. The only thing I did notice with them was when the volume was off and then increased slowly, the left channel would be active before the right channel. Never a difference in level though. Got the Marantz set up now. No problems at all

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="fatboyslimfast"] I can't help noticing (maybe controversially) that most RS-owned products (ok, Audio Partnership - but Julian R alledgedly has a 51% share) seem to get a glowing review in WHFSV, even though sometimes the forums tell a different story...[/quote]

This is very interesting... If I may ask, which are the "RS-owned" brands?

zimble01

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Hi Zimble01 - here's a link to Audio Partnership's site... http://www.audiopartnership.com/company.html.

 

[Anonymous]

Having heard this problem on a friends amp I can see everyones problems, and it's not nice to have a problem like this straight out of the box. BUT as the CA advised use attenuation, the attenuation not only lowers the input level and therefor cures the problem because of the vol pot position it actually improves the sound of any amp. Attenuating the input signal to an amp stops the internals of the amp overloading and causing a brittle sound (you will hear the difference with attenuation).
The REAL issue for me is manufacturers having very sensitive inputs on the amps and high outputs on sources which often means 9 oclock is very loud, ideally what used to be the 9 oclock volume should now be around 11 - 12 oclock. I advise -10 to -11db.

The sound is more natural with better bass response and a more controlled treble

If you have one of these amps and like once turned up then try attenuating the cd input. Do not use the cd volume as this is a form of digital compression and sounds poor

Brent

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="rowemeister"]Having heard this problem on a friends amp I can see everyones problems, and it's not nice to have a problem like this straight out of the box. BUT as the CA advised use attenuation, the attenuation not only lowers the input level and therefor cures the problem because of the vol pot position it actually improves the sound of any amp. Attenuating the input signal to an amp stops the internals of the amp overloading and causing a brittle sound (you will hear the difference with attenuation).
The REAL issue for me is manufacturers having very sensitive inputs on the amps and high outputs on sources which often means 9 oclock is very loud, ideally what used to be the 9 oclock volume should now be around 11 - 12 oclock. I advise -10 to -11db.

The sound is more natural with better bass response and a more controlled treble

If you have one of these amps and like once turned up then try attenuating the cd input. Do not use the cd volume as this is a form of digital compression and sounds poor

Brent[/quote]

thanks Brent for the info. Unfortunately I (and someone else on this thread) have no idea what attenuation is and how we would go about it. still begs the question though why it only occurs with CA amps?

 

[Clare Newsome]

[quote user="fatboyslimfast"] Also, I can't help noticing (maybe controversially) that most RS-owned products (ok, Audio Partnership - but Julian R alledgedly has a 51% share) seem to get a glowing review in WHFSV, even though sometimes the forums tell a different story...[/quote]

Not so much controversial as inaccurate: for example, CA only picked up one Award from us last year (a repeat win for its budget phono stage).

Also even a cursory glance in our Buyer's Guide will show, for example, a two-star review for the Cambridge Audio TT50 turntable (January 2008 issue).

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="fatboyslimfast"]most RS-owned products (ok, Audio Partnership - but Julian R alledgedly has a 51% share)[/quote]

Care to give a source for that remark? 'Alledgedly' isn't quite the get-out you seem to think it is, and it would be handy if you could stand up remarks such as that.

AFAIK Julian Richer is a non-executive director of the company, whose Managing Director is James Johnson-Flint.

The link with Richer Sounds in this country is that RS is the exclusive distributor for Cambridge Audio here, but not for some other Audio Partnership brands such as Mordaunt-Short, which is distributed by Marantz.

In other territories, the Cambridge Audio products go through a more conventional distribution chain of manufacturer, importer/distributor and retailer, which is why they tend to be more expensive than in the UK.

 

[Gwyndy]

[quote user="ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit"]

thanks Brent for the info. Unfortunately I (and someone else on this thread) have no idea what attenuation is and how we would go about it. still begs the question though why it only occurs with CA amps?[/quote]

An attenuator is an electronic device that reduces the amplitude or power of a signal without appreciably distorting its waveform. Attenuators are usually passive devices made from resistors, they are in effect amplifiers in reverse, while an amplifier provides gain, an attenuator provides loss, or gain less than 1.

Russ Andrews has the view that CD players in particular require attenuation as the signal supplied to the amp overloads it. He supplies interconnects with optional inbuilt attenuation, also a company called Rothwell sells attenuators that you can fit between the end of the RCA connector and the Amplifier inputs.

 

[Anonymous]

Attenuation lowers the signal from the source (usually cd) to the amp. You can buy inline attenuators or when changing leads buy them with built in attenuation.

This guy on ebay sells some really good ones http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rothwell-RCA-In-Line-Attenuators_W0QQitemZ250206193910QQihZ015QQcategoryZ116854QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I have also found these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/14db-HIFI-Attenuators-Reduce-Harshness-Fatigue_W0QQitemZ300190698842QQihZ020QQcategoryZ81741QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
-14db will lower the signal more than -10db -11db also the attenuator must be plugged in at the amp end or you will lose bass.

Brent

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Hi both. My views on the reviews were subjective, and I had only read the info re RS/JR on other forums.
Therefore I must retract my comments and apologise for them.
I will restrain my comments to fact in future.

 

[Anonymous]

Curious. Perhaps there's something we're not meant to uncover... CA and Mordaunt-Short are certainly two WHFSV favourites, but, being a relative newbie, I don't recognise the other brands. Or perhaps it's pure coincidence, however unlikely it may seem, this being corporate business and all.

zimble01

 

[Gwyndy]

Andrew if this post breaks any rules please delete it

I have an interview in another Hi-Fi Magazine (which I won't name, just in case ) with Matthew Bramble, Technical Director of Cambridge Audio, in the interview he is asked

"You mentioned Audio Partnership, which many people still percieve wrongly as being the manufacturing arm of Richer Sounds"
His response began "AP is a stand-alone firm. Our involvement with Richer, even though it's our UK distributor, is quite limited"

 

[Clare Newsome]

Sorry Zimble01, I don't understand what you're getting at. If you're trying to suggest we're anything less than totally editorially independent, you're very, very wrong....

 

[John Duncan]

Why the bashing anyway? Richer Sounds have done more to bring real hifi into the homes of those who'd have otherwise bought an Alba midi system (no disrespect*) than anybody else I can think of, and are to be applauded, whether you buy anything from them or not.

(*this is a lie)

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="zimble01"]Curious. Perhaps there's something we're not meant to uncover... CA and Mordaunt-Short are certainly two WHFSV favourites, but, being a relative newbie, I don't recognise the other brands. Or perhaps it's pure coincidence, however unlikely it may seem, this being corporate business and all.

zimble01[/quote]

More insinuations?

FYI, most of those brands - certainly Opus (the custom-installation offshoot of CA and M-S), Audio Innovations, Ariston and TDL - have featured in the magazine in the past.

Does that lessen or increase your suspicions?

Anyway, take heart from the fact that you're allowed to keep making these insinuations against a magazine on whose forums you are, after all, posting them.

If we had anything to hide, you'd expect such postings to be deleted, mightn't you, "this being corporate business and all".

Or perhaps it's an elegant double-bluff on our part. Perhaps there really is "something we're not meant to uncover."

(Cue X-Files music)