Cambridge Azure 540A Balance problems

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Gwyndy"]Andrew if this post breaks any rules please delete it

I have an interview in another Hi-Fi Magazine (which I won't name, just in case ) with Matthew Bramble...[/quote]

Can't see that breaking any rules at all, Gwyndy

 

[Anonymous]

My goodnesss, this posting has had some unexpected results! Back on the topic , thanks for the info regarding attenuation, which is something I've never come across before. I must say that since I've partnered an amp and a CD player from the same range of the same manufacturer, I don't see why this should be necessary, nor why I should be spending any more money on the set up to get it useable for what are fairly normal listening conditions. Rather than faff around further in the hope that additional expediture will sort out the problem, I think I'll be sticking to plan B, the Marantz PM6002.

 

[Clare Newsome]

[quote user="tractorboy"] I'll be sticking to plan B, the Marantz PM6002.[/quote]

...which is a better amp anyway! You'll love it....

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
[quote user="tractorboy"] I'll be sticking to plan B, the Marantz PM6002.[/quote]

...which is a better amp anyway! You'll love it....

[/quote]

And that from a fellow tractorfan - what better recommendation could you want?

 

[Anonymous]

Tractorboy the problem is with items from the same manufacturers. They do not test their stuff together, often amps and cd players are made in different factories in different countries.

As an example - Marantz PM66KI input sensitivity is 150mV and the CD63KI output V is 2V - you can see there is an imbalance here with the source being 13X higher in signal amplitude to what the amp would like to see. Amps with say 500mV sensitivity suffer much less from harshness etc

I am saying whatever amp you buy you should fit an attenuator. It's one of the best tweaks you can do imho

Brent

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="rowemeister"]Tractorboy the problem is with items from the same manufacturers. They do not test their stuff together, often amps and cd players are made in different factories in different countries.

As an example - Marantz PM66KI input sensitivity is 150mV and the CD63KI output V is 2V - you can see there is an imbalance here with the source being 13X higher in signal amplitude to what the amp would like to see. Amps with say 500mV sensitivity suffer much less from harshness etc

I am saying whatever amp you buy you should fit an attenuator. It's one of the best tweaks you can do imho

Brent[/quote]

thanks again Brent for the info - i had never heard of this before which is surprising as i do read a few hi-fi mags and always looks for tweaks i can do. i have a Pioneer A400 amp at the mo and i love it to bits - i dont have any info on the input sensitivity though - do you think i should use an attenuator anyway (im not sure if your statement in your previous post relates to all amps or all amps that are produced at the moment ie current amp.)
cheers

 

[Anonymous]

Hi

I looked up your amp http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/data/a400.htm and it appears your input sensitivity is also 150mV. Attenuators will benefit you also, most amps are 150 ~ 300mV inputs.

Brent

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Tractorboy

I just want you to know that this problem occurs in Rotel 06 series amps also.
I saw somebody recommended Rotel amps instead of CA (as to get rid of this inconvenient...)
I am a "happy" owner of an RA-05 amp which does the same thing you reported on your CA 540A.
I previously owned japanese amps at half price which didn't have such "low level imbalance".
Anyway, I am considering using those attenuators somebody mentioned here...
And (for everybody) please excuse my english (it's not my mother tongue...)
Regards...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Wotan, as planned, I eventually "solved" the problem by switching to a Marantz PM6002, which helpfully has a "loudness" button to beef up the sound at low volume levels.

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/7028.aspx for a pic of the finished system

And congratulations on your English; I teach English as a foreign language, so that's a professional opinion ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Just thought I'd post I use a Cambridge 540 too. I have the same imbalance problems up to the 8o clock position.

I'm glad i came here and found an answer as Richer Sounds and HI-Forum.co.uk weren't much help.

My local RS is a 70 mile round trip. First time I just took the Amp, second time I took the whold lot. The salesman denied there was any prob several times but when i pushed him he said they're all like that. I was quite annoyed as being a newb to all this I really needed sound advice (excuse the pun). Eventually changed it for replacement model - same thing - obviosly I still have the same prob. Not too fussed about it tbh but Just wish they could have eplained it in the store without me having to pack and unpack all my kit, last thing I wanted to do is scratch or damage it.

Felt a bit dissapointed by the service as I had just spent £1000+ with them. They are opening a store here in York soon so hopefully they'll be better.

 

[Anonymous]

Sent off a complaint letter to RS his morning.

Don't mind so much about the imbalance, more the fact the salesman convinced me I was talking *****.

I'd have still bought the damn thing if he explained the sequential thing but it would have saved me 210 miles running back and forth trying to diagnose a documented problem.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Black Knight"]

Sent off a complaint letter to RS his morning.

Don't mind so much about the imbalance, more the fact the salesman convinced me I was talking *****.

I'd have still bought the damn thing if he explained the sequential thing but it would have saved me 210 miles running back and forth trying to diagnose a documented problem.

[/quote]

Finally received a reply back today.

Glad to say the response was sympathetic, well thought out and seemed personal.

Without reprinting the entire letter, Julian Richer apologised for my experience in store and promised to take issues I raised, up with staff.

He explained the the volume pot on the amp purchased was sequential and added it was not ideal. He offered to exchange my amp for a different model and also refund my travelling costs back and forth. I've not calculated this cost but did state it was 210 miles.

He also enclosed a further £30 of vouchers for use in his stores.

I'm happy with the response and will be accepting his offer.

Well done RS. Back in my good books.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

I've just stumbled on this post and there are a lot of insinuations and bad spelling! For a start it's Cambridge Audio Azur. I have the 840 v1. I have no such imbalance so those generalising and saying all CA amps suffer this problem, are wrong. Also, RS offer home demos, many of it's shops have demo rooms, so if there is a problem, it can be uncovered before purchase or shortly after (they offer a returns policy). As John Duncan says, RS has and still does offer great budget hifi and also price matching, fairly local stores, in fact a lot of people would not be on here if it wasn't for RS. I also have to disagree with Clare for once. I'm sure you were trying to steer clear of an argument Clare but over the last few years, the Azur range has won many stars with this mag and lots of others throughout the world, and quite rightly too. I really don't think that this would have been the case if this imbalance issue was a biggy.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Gerrardasnails"]I've just stumbled on this post and there are a lot of insinuations and bad spelling! For a start it's Cambridge Audio Azur. I have the 840 v1. I have no such imbalance so those generalising and saying all CA amps suffer this problem, are wrong. Also, RS offer home demos, many of it's shops have demo rooms, so if there is a problem, it can be uncovered before purchase or shortly after (they offer a returns policy). As John Duncan says, RS has and still does offer great budget hifi and also price matching, fairly local stores, in fact a lot of people would not be on here if it wasn't for RS.
I also have to disagree with Clare for once. I'm sure you were trying to steer clear of an argument Clare but over the last few years, the Azur range has won many stars with this mag and lots of others throughout the world, and quite rightly too. I really don't think that this would have been the case if this imbalance issue was a biggy.[/quote]

What do you mean "For a start it's Cambridge Audio Azur"? Not sure what you mean - are tyou just pointing out that people did not write out the model name in full?

Anyway - as I'm sure you know the 740A and 840A use a different volume control - not just a simple pot but a relay switched resister ladder. I was actually quite fond of the relays clicking! The complaint with the volume pot imbalance only inflicts the lower models and they are not just insinuations (or bad spelling...?!)
I have personally found CA products to be unreliable (including the 840A). Maybe (as the RS staff suggested many times) I was just unlucky. Maybe one member of staff who said "Aah - a 740A come back! Don't tell me - an output channel failed? We've had lots of those!" just had a lucky guess and the other member of staff (who quickly took over) was right when he said he'd never known that to happen before. I dunno, funny old world.
RS offer a money back guarantee for the 740 and 840 but not generally for other stuff - so make sure this is discussed before buying (and pref get it in writing so they can't 'change their minds').
I think the 740A and 840A are great sounding amps and hope CA sort out any reliability issues.
Hope the spellings been ok..!

 

[Gerrardasnails]

[quote user="bloney"][quote user="Gerrardasnails"]I've just stumbled on this post and there are a lot of insinuations and bad spelling! For a start it's Cambridge Audio Azur. I have the 840 v1. I have no such imbalance so those generalising and saying all CA amps suffer this problem, are wrong. Also, RS offer home demos, many of it's shops have demo rooms, so if there is a problem, it can be uncovered before purchase or shortly after (they offer a returns policy). As John Duncan says, RS has and still does offer great budget hifi and also price matching, fairly local stores, in fact a lot of people would not be on here if it wasn't for RS.
I also have to disagree with Clare for once. I'm sure you were trying to steer clear of an argument Clare but over the last few years, the Azur range has won many stars with this mag and lots of others throughout the world, and quite rightly too. I really don't think that this would have been the case if this imbalance issue was a biggy.[/quote]

What do you mean "For a start it's Cambridge Audio Azur"? Not sure what you mean - are tyou just pointing out that people did not write out the model name in full?

Anyway - as I'm sure you know the 740A and 840A use a different volume control - not just a simple pot but a relay switched resister ladder. I was actually quite fond of the relays clicking! The complaint with the volume pot imbalance only inflicts the lower models and they are not just insinuations (or bad spelling...?!)
I have personally found CA products to be unreliable (including the 840A). Maybe (as the RS staff suggested many times) I was just unlucky. Maybe one member of staff who said "Aah - a 740A come back! Don't tell me - an output channel failed? We've had lots of those!" just had a lucky guess and the other member of staff (who quickly took over) was right when he said he'd never known that to happen before. I dunno, funny old world.
RS offer a money back guarantee for the 740 and 840 but not generally for other stuff - so make sure this is discussed before buying (and pref get it in writing so they can't 'change their minds').
I think the 740A and 840A are great sounding amps and hope CA sort out any reliability issues.
Hope the spellings been ok..![/quote] I'm not going to get into an argument over this. It just annoys me when people generalise - read all the posts and you might see where I'm coming from. I was merely starting my post with the correct model is Azur and not as the title suggests, Azure. As I type I can feel that this is getting petty and I need to stop. My main gripe is that people should listen before buying and that CA can't be that bad and all budget components will have issues. Done.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Gerrardasnails"][quote user="bloney"][quote user="Gerrardasnails"]I've just stumbled on this post and there are a lot of insinuations and bad spelling! For a start it's Cambridge Audio Azur. I have the 840 v1. I have no such imbalance so those generalising and saying all CA amps suffer this problem, are wrong. Also, RS offer home demos, many of it's shops have demo rooms, so if there is a problem, it can be uncovered before purchase or shortly after (they offer a returns policy). As John Duncan says, RS has and still does offer great budget hifi and also price matching, fairly local stores, in fact a lot of people would not be on here if it wasn't for RS.
I also have to disagree with Clare for once. I'm sure you were trying to steer clear of an argument Clare but over the last few years, the Azur range has won many stars with this mag and lots of others throughout the world, and quite rightly too. I really don't think that this would have been the case if this imbalance issue was a biggy.[/quote]

What do you mean "For a start it's Cambridge Audio Azur"? Not sure what you mean - are tyou just pointing out that people did not write out the model name in full?

Anyway - as I'm sure you know the 740A and 840A use a different volume control - not just a simple pot but a relay switched resister ladder. I was actually quite fond of the relays clicking! The complaint with the volume pot imbalance only inflicts the lower models and they are not just insinuations (or bad spelling...?!)
I have personally found CA products to be unreliable (including the 840A). Maybe (as the RS staff suggested many times) I was just unlucky. Maybe one member of staff who said "Aah - a 740A come back! Don't tell me - an output channel failed? We've had lots of those!" just had a lucky guess and the other member of staff (who quickly took over) was right when he said he'd never known that to happen before. I dunno, funny old world.
RS offer a money back guarantee for the 740 and 840 but not generally for other stuff - so make sure this is discussed before buying (and pref get it in writing so they can't 'change their minds').
I think the 740A and 840A are great sounding amps and hope CA sort out any reliability issues.
Hope the spellings been ok..![/quote] I'm not going to get into an argument over this. It just annoys me when people generalise - read all the posts and you might see where I'm coming from. I was merely starting my post with the correct model is Azur and not as the title suggests, Azure. As I type I can feel that this is getting petty and I need to stop. My main gripe is that people should listen before buying and that CA can't be that bad and all budget components will have issues. Done.[/quote]
Done??!! There's mileage in this yet!

Seriously though - I agree with everything you said above, but thought it relevent to put forward my experience. As I said, the 840A is very, very good - I was very sad to see mine (2nd...) go - but after my experiences, couldn't keep on going with it. After an initial response, CA stopped answering my emails to tech support and after a couple of months just closed the enquiry. Oh well.
Also, I think people are quick to look down on CA stuff without actually hearing it. No disrespect (thats always a bad sign, isn't it?!) but I was very disappointed with the 640A but found the 840A a different kettle of fish altogether.I suspect the volume pot CA use will be used on other amps in the price range and isn't going to be confined to CA.I'm starting to talk piffle, so I'll stop now, but I'll try harder to draw you into a pointless argument next time..!

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Fair play Bloney. I think that in this sort of price range (and it probably is the case the more you spend, the more you expect) there are always going to be shortcomings. I remember you mentioning your problems with your 840s before. Ironically (touch wood), I bought mine second hand (it looked brand new and still had the screen cover on and had only been used for "40 hours") for £485 delivered and I've not experience one thing I don't like about it. I had a Creek Evo before which I loved also but it couldn't be connected to my AV receiver's pre-outs (which I really need). I think because Richer Sounds stores are plentiful, they don't look very snazzy from the outside, and they sell a lot of cheaper stuff, CA products do get the snotty nose looking down on them. I have quoted this before and it's from our very own Thaiman, "the 840c is the best cdp you can buy for under £1000". Now TM has no affiliation to any company and he is into the higher end of equipment (many of his new buys I've not even heard of!), and he rates, albeit the top of the range, very highly. He obviously listens to the product first.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Gerrardasnails"]I've just stumbled on this post and there are a lot of insinuations and bad spelling! For a start it's Cambridge Audio Azur.[/quote]

Sincere apologies to anyone whom I've offended with my poor spelling. Yes, there were a few unfounded insinuations and generalisations in the early days of this thread, however there were also several posts by people with first hand accounts of a genuine problem with specific pieces of equipment.

Black Knight, I'm glad that Richer Sounds have done the right thing by you, as they did by me. It's a pity though, that Cambridge Audio seems relatively unconcerned by the problem.

 

[plastic penguin]

I've purchased What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision since January 2004 and enjoy their reviews, but I believe the only way to the solve the discontent with budget stuff from Cambridge is to write to the manufactuer en masse, or purchase an alternative brand.

I had a bad experience with Cambridge about 10 years ago. I took the amp back exchanged it for Arcam Alpha 7R, which I kept for 6 years.

I do believe that if there is a genuine problem with the balance, across the budget range, then one would hope the reviewers at WHFI?S&V bring these imperfections to our attention.

 

[Anonymous]

alas, reliability testing would mean they would have to keep the product for a lot longer than with a one off review............

 

[plastic penguin]

It's a quality control issue. the responsibilty, ultimately, stands with the manufactuer to make sure that its products, regardless of cost, works correctly. Then it's down to the supplier or distributor to respond to the mood of the public - people like myself parting with their hard-earned cash and hoping to use a product without deficiencies.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

[quote user="plastic penguin"]It's a quality control issue. the responsibilty, ultimately, stands with the manufactuer to make sure that its products, regardless of cost, works correctly. Then it's down to the supplier or distributor to respond to the mood of the public - people like myself parting with their hard-earned cash and hoping to use a product without deficiencies.[/quote] This is the last I'm going to say on this but I'm getting close to the 1000 mark in posts and have been using this forum for 6 months or so. This is the first I've heard of this "issue". What I have heard (plenty of times) is that CA products get offered up as items to buy, second hand or new. Now, could it possibly be that they sell so many units and some on here have experienced problems but there isn't a definite problem with the models? Let me see, a lot of different magazines and online reviews rate the Azur range from 340 to 840. I've not read anything in the reviews that suggest this problem. Could it be there are a few unlucky ones and not that the Azur range is afflicted with a problem that no other manufacturer seems to have?

 

[plastic penguin]

[quote user="Gerrardasnails"][quote user="plastic penguin"]It's a quality control issue. the responsibilty, ultimately, stands with the manufactuer to make sure that its products, regardless of cost, works correctly. Then it's down to the supplier or distributor to respond to the mood of the public - people like myself parting with their hard-earned cash and hoping to use a product without deficiencies.[/quote] This is the last I'm going to say on this but I'm getting close to the 1000 mark in posts and have been using this forum for 6 months or so. This is the first I've heard of this "issue". What I have heard (plenty of times) is that CA products get offered up as items to buy, second hand or new. Now, could it possibly be that they sell so many units and some on here have experienced problems but there isn't a definite problem with the models? Let me see, a lot of different magazines and online reviews rate the Azur range from 340 to 840. I've not read anything in the reviews that suggest this problem. Could it be there are a few unlucky ones and not that the Azur range is afflicted with a problem that no other manufacturer seems to have?[/quote]

I agree with you Gerrard. It might only be a one-off, but again, if it is a duff batch then surely CA should try isolate it and if any do slip through the net then recalling the batch would save a lot of discontent.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="plastic penguin"][quote user="Gerrardasnails"][quote user="plastic penguin"]It's a quality control issue. the responsibilty, ultimately, stands with the manufactuer to make sure that its products, regardless of cost, works correctly. Then it's down to the supplier or distributor to respond to the mood of the public - people like myself parting with their hard-earned cash and hoping to use a product without deficiencies.[/quote] This is the last I'm going to say on this but I'm getting close to the 1000 mark in posts and have been using this forum for 6 months or so. This is the first I've heard of this "issue". What I have heard (plenty of times) is that CA products get offered up as items to buy, second hand or new. Now, could it possibly be that they sell so many units and some on here have experienced problems but there isn't a definite problem with the models? Let me see, a lot of different magazines and online reviews rate the Azur range from 340 to 840. I've not read anything in the reviews that suggest this problem. Could it be there are a few unlucky ones and not that the Azur range is afflicted with a problem that no other manufacturer seems to have?[/quote]

I agree with you Gerrard. It might only be a one-off, but again, if it is a duff batch then surely CA should try isolate it and if any do slip through the net then recalling the batch would save a lot of discontent.[/quote]

guys let me clear this up for you - you might have missed my earlier posts in this thread...
there DEFINATELY is a problem with these amps - i have owned three different 540A's and as many A5's and also tested one 640A. They ALL have the same problem and CA are very aware of it . I emailed them numerous times to complain only to be told that the balance problem was (if i remember correctly) due to a cheap potentiometer being used (according to CA so they keep the cost of unit down).
it is not a fault - merely a cost-cutting (or "budgetting") decision that results in many unhappy customers
though i dare say many people who have purchased the units probably havent noticed this problem as they probably use there units at volumes significant enough (>20% volume) for the issue not to effect them.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Gerrardasnails"] I have quoted this before and it's from our very own Thaiman, "the 840c is the best cdp you can buy for under £1000". Now TM has no affiliation to any company and he is into the higher end of equipment (many of his new buys I've not even heard of!), and he rates, albeit the top of the range, very highly. He obviously listens to the product first.[/quote]

Firstly, in an attempt to goad you into another reponse, you really shouldn't ask Thaiman his opinion of the 840A then..!

And thirdly, I use -10dB GoldenJack atteunuators and wouldn't be without them - I think they would prolly help out many problems and may well cover up the balance problems some are finding.