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Calling David @ Frank Harvey

Snikoes

New member
Jun 11, 2016
10
0
0
Hi David,

I noticed in a different thread that you recommended it was good practice to connect single wired speaker cables to the top terminals of biwirable speakers.

Would this be your recommendation for all speakers? I ask as I was about to change mine but noticed KEF specify the bottom connections in my R500 manual.

Is it safe to use either? Does it make much difference to the performance?

(Your recommendation was to a blade owner I believe)
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
Snikoes said:
Hi David,

I noticed in a different thread that you recommended it was good practice to connect single wired speaker cables to the top terminals of biwirable speakers.

Would this be your recommendation for all speakers? I ask as I was about to change mine but noticed KEF specify the bottom connections in my R500 manual.

Is it safe to use either? Does it make much difference to the performance?

(Your recommendation was to a blade owner I believe)
Is the kind of thing those in the hi-fi trade say to enthusiasts in order to appear knowledgeable and to impress them.

Do you seriously think it is going to make a real difference, really...*ROFL*
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
0
18,890
Snikoes said:
Hi David,

I noticed in a different thread that you recommended it was good practice to connect single wired speaker cables to the top terminals of biwirable speakers.

Would this be your recommendation for all speakers? I ask as I was about to change mine but noticed KEF specify the bottom connections in my R500 manual.

Is it safe to use either? Does it make much difference to the performance?

(Your recommendation was to a blade owner I believe)
Ignore Dave. He seems to hold some sort of grudge against the hi-fi industry, and so likes to belittle those in it.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter which terminals you use (top or bottom), but I just tend to use the HF terminals (which in the case of a three-way speaker like the Blades is usually HF and MF) just out of habit. My reasoning for that, whether some see it as me 'trying to impress people' or not, is that in most cases, the signal usually has to pass through the links to reach the other terminals. Many report improvements to sound when using good quality cable links over metal plates, and if that is true (I've never tried it myself), then I'd rather plug the cable directly into the HF, which is much more important. If it does make a difference, all I would say is that lots of little things can make a noticable difference, even if they make no detectable difference on their own.

The KEF system works a little differently, so whether it makes a difference or not is highly debatable, but I still, out of habit, would plug them into the HF terminals.

Whether this is seen by some as me trying to impress people or not, I'll leave that up to individuals to decide.
 

lpv

New member
Mar 14, 2013
47
0
0
you will hear more difference if you place your speakers upside down
 

lpv

New member
Mar 14, 2013
47
0
0
David@FrankHarvey said:
Snikoes said:
Hi David,

I noticed in a different thread that you recommended it was good practice to connect single wired speaker cables to the top terminals of biwirable speakers.

Would this be your recommendation for all speakers? I ask as I was about to change mine but noticed KEF specify the bottom connections in my R500 manual.

Is it safe to use either? Does it make much difference to the performance?

(Your recommendation was to a blade owner I believe)
Ignore Dave. He seems to hold some sort of grudge against the hi-fi industry, and so likes to belittle those in it.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter which terminals you use (top or bottom), but I just tend to use the HF terminals (which in the case of a three-way speaker like the Blades is usually HF and MF) just out of habit. My reasoning for that, whether some see it as me 'trying to impress people' or not, is that in most cases, the signal usually has to pass through the links to reach the other terminals. Many report improvements to sound when using good quality cable links over metal plates, and if that is true (I've never tried it myself), then I'd rather plug the cable directly into the HF, which is much more important. If it does make a difference, all I would say is that lots of little things can make a noticable difference, even if they make no detectable difference on their own.

The KEF system works a little differently, so whether it makes a difference or not is highly debatable, but I still, out of habit, would plug them into the HF terminals.

Whether this is seen by some as me trying to impress people or not, I'll leave that up to individuals to decide.
voodoo as usual
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
lpv said:
David@FrankHarvey said:
Snikoes said:
Hi David,

I noticed in a different thread that you recommended it was good practice to connect single wired speaker cables to the top terminals of biwirable speakers.

Would this be your recommendation for all speakers? I ask as I was about to change mine but noticed KEF specify the bottom connections in my R500 manual.

Is it safe to use either? Does it make much difference to the performance?

(Your recommendation was to a blade owner I believe)
Ignore Dave. He seems to hold some sort of grudge against the hi-fi industry, and so likes to belittle those in it.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter which terminals you use (top or bottom), but I just tend to use the HF terminals (which in the case of a three-way speaker like the Blades is usually HF and MF) just out of habit. My reasoning for that, whether some see it as me 'trying to impress people' or not, is that in most cases, the signal usually has to pass through the links to reach the other terminals. Many report improvements to sound when using good quality cable links over metal plates, and if that is true (I've never tried it myself), then I'd rather plug the cable directly into the HF, which is much more important. If it does make a difference, all I would say is that lots of little things can make a noticable difference, even if they make no detectable difference on their own.

The KEF system works a little differently, so whether it makes a difference or not is highly debatable, but I still, out of habit, would plug them into the HF terminals.

Whether this is seen by some as me trying to impress people or not, I'll leave that up to individuals to decide.
voodoo as usual
The kind of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment.

I have heard so much of this nonsense over the years that I have simply become bored with it, a few really great bullshitters have a certain entertainment value, but from anyone else it is just nonsense.
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
0
18,890
davedotco said:
The kind of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment.

I have heard so much of this nonsense over the years that I have simply become bored with it, a few really great bullshitters have a certain entertainment value, but from anyone else it is just nonsense.
If someone asks for my opinion, they will get my opinion. An opinion isn't the "sort of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment" - this has nothing to do with auditioning the equipment, nor is it essential knowledge in owning or using decent equipment. It isn't a subject that usually comes up during demonstrations, and so, isn't a subject that is normally discussed.

It wouldn't be so bad if I was trying to sell the OP some "high quality links" to profit from it, but I'm not. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Evil me.
 

chris_bates1974

Moderator
Feb 28, 2013
96
34
10,570
I'm not sure what everyone's beef is here with David. Seems he was asked his opinion, and he gave it. Whilst stressing it was an opinion and that he wouldn't be sure what he did made any difference....

What is there to be bitching about in that?
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
David@FrankHarvey said:
davedotco said:
The kind of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment.

I have heard so much of this nonsense over the years that I have simply become bored with it, a few really great bullshitters have a certain entertainment value, but from anyone else it is just nonsense.
If someone asks for my opinion, they will get my opinion. An opinion isn't the "sort of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment" - this has nothing to do with auditioning the equipment, nor is it essential knowledge in owning or using decent equipment. It isn't a subject that usually comes up during demonstrations, and so, isn't a subject that is normally discussed.

It wouldn't be so bad if I was trying to sell the OP some "high quality links" to profit from it, but I'm not. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Evil me.
This isn't personal, I have never met you, it is really a 'rant' against the kind of nonsense that seem to emenate almost 'ex cathedra' from persons who are 'in the business'. I think perhaps you need to be a little more self-aware, assuming you want to maintain a reputation for being a compedent dealer.

As a salesperson, you will get pressed for your opinions, I understand that, some 'punters' simply want the argument and the temptation to respond is hard to resist. Best avoided if at all possible.
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
0
18,890
davedotco said:
This isn't personal, I have never met you, it is really a 'rant' against the kind of nonsense that seem to emenate almost 'ex cathedra' from persons who are 'in the business'. I think perhaps you need to be a little more self-aware, assuming you want to maintain a reputation for being a compedent dealer.

As a salesperson, you will get pressed for your opinions, I understand that, some 'punters' simply want the argument and the temptation to respond is hard to resist. Best avoided if at all possible.
I think you mean "competent".

Offering my opinion after it has been asked for isn't wrong. What I have stated also isn't wrong. If you have a problem with it, I'm not sure what I can do about that other than leave this forum. Which I won't be doing. If someone else asks me the same question, they'll get the same answer, whether you are in agreement or not.

Anyway, I have "innocents" to corrupt.
 

bigboss

Moderator
davedotco said:
David@FrankHarvey said:
davedotco said:
The kind of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment.

I have heard so much of this nonsense over the years that I have simply become bored with it, a few really great bullshitters have a certain entertainment value, but from anyone else it is just nonsense.
If someone asks for my opinion, they will get my opinion. An opinion isn't the "sort of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment" - this has nothing to do with auditioning the equipment, nor is it essential knowledge in owning or using decent equipment. It isn't a subject that usually comes up during demonstrations, and so, isn't a subject that is normally discussed.

It wouldn't be so bad if I was trying to sell the OP some "high quality links" to profit from it, but I'm not. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Evil me.
This isn't personal, I have never met you, it is really a 'rant' against the kind of nonsense that seem to emenate almost 'ex cathedra' from persons who are 'in the business'. I think perhaps you need to be a little more self-aware, assuming you want to maintain a reputation for being a compedent dealer.

As a salesperson, you will get pressed for your opinions, I understand that, some 'punters' simply want the argument and the temptation to respond is hard to resist. Best avoided if at all possible.
TBH, your attack was totally uncalled for. The OP specifically asked David a question to which David responded, without guaranteeing any performance improvement.
 

ID.

New member
Feb 22, 2010
207
0
0
This entire thread is nonsense.

Everyone knows a diamond configuration is best. :p
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
bigboss said:
davedotco said:
David@FrankHarvey said:
davedotco said:
The kind of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment.

I have heard so much of this nonsense over the years that I have simply become bored with it, a few really great bullshitters have a certain entertainment value, but from anyone else it is just nonsense.
If someone asks for my opinion, they will get my opinion. An opinion isn't the "sort of nonsense that turns 'normal' people off the idea of buying decent equipment" - this has nothing to do with auditioning the equipment, nor is it essential knowledge in owning or using decent equipment. It isn't a subject that usually comes up during demonstrations, and so, isn't a subject that is normally discussed.

It wouldn't be so bad if I was trying to sell the OP some "high quality links" to profit from it, but I'm not. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Evil me.
This isn't personal, I have never met you, it is really a 'rant' against the kind of nonsense that seem to emenate almost 'ex cathedra' from persons who are 'in the business'. I think perhaps you need to be a little more self-aware, assuming you want to maintain a reputation for being a compedent dealer.

As a salesperson, you will get pressed for your opinions, I understand that, some 'punters' simply want the argument and the temptation to respond is hard to resist. Best avoided if at all possible.
TBH, your attack was totally uncalled for. The OP specifically asked David a question to which David responded, without guaranteeing any performance improvement.
And got total nonsense as a reply.

If that had come from an ordinary member I doubt I would have got involved.

But it didn't, it came from a dealer, a very different proposition.

Rightly or wrongly this implies a degree of competence, expertise even, hence my comment on self awareness.
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
I think Davedotco got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning and is taking it out on DavidF from HiFix uneccessarily. I think DavidF sat on the fence very well with his response to the Ops question

Whether you are intending to or not Davedotco - this is how it is reading.

You could have left it after your first post but you have continued with it making it worse.

Your point was clear at the start - again just making you aware of how its coming across
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
ellisdj said:
I think Davedotco got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning and is taking it out on DavidF from HiFix uneccessarily. I think DavidF sat on the fence very well with his response to the Ops question

Whether you are intending to or not Davedotco - this is how it is reading.

You could have left it after your first post but you have continued with it making it worse.

Your point was clear at the start - again just making you aware of how its coming across
I do like to have a dig at 'the industry' from time to time.

It comes from my time as a full time BS merchant, both as a sales guy and in 'marketing'.

Maybe it is just the zeal of reformed, I am now a 'civillian'.
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
No offence to the OP, but this is the kind of question that highlights how a lack of understanding can leave the unwary wide open to the whims of foo-merchants who prey on naivety. I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of being a foo merchant, I just mean generally. One day someone will ask which order you should plug your hifi components into a regular power strip to get the best sound, i.e.: which component should go nearest to the cable-end and and which should go furthest from it. And people will actually debate over the order.
 

Snikoes

New member
Jun 11, 2016
10
0
0
I was responding to a post in a different thread by a highly respected dealer (in my view at least) and this thread has just become insulting and offensive.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
281
73
10,970
everyone sit down and have a cup of tea its not worth the effort and chill out but the truth cost nothing it would of been easy just to say it does not matter were you put the speaker cables david and that would of been the end of it . lets not fall out over bloody speaker cables *smile* lifes to short *smile*
 

RobinKidderminster

New member
May 27, 2009
582
0
0
Maybe if the OP had spent 5 minutes trying all the different configurations this thread would not exist. Like its going to explode? Or make any discernable difference? Go try it and report back with an interesting test for us to critisize.

No wonder I rarely contribute here.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
Blacksabbath25 said:
everyone sit down and have a cup of tea its not worth the effort and chill out but the truth cost nothing it would of been easy just to say it does not matter were you put the speaker cables david and that would of been the end of it . lets not fall out over bloody speaker cables *smile* lifes to short *smile*
To settle down with a nice glass of Mrs DDC's very potent citrus Sangria.

Might get a little forthright in my opinions later. Just a warning for those of you of a nervous disposition.

Apologies to the OP for diverting this thread. Hi-fi is really a pretty simple game, there really is no need to overcomplicate.
 

manicm

Well-known member
May 1, 2008
587
60
18,970
davedotco said:
Snikoes said:
Hi David,

I noticed in a different thread that you recommended it was good practice to connect single wired speaker cables to the top terminals of biwirable speakers. 

Would this be your recommendation for all speakers? I ask as I was about to change mine but noticed KEF specify the bottom connections in my R500 manual. 

Is it safe to use either? Does it make much difference to the performance?

(Your recommendation was to a blade owner I believe)
Is the kind of thing those in the hi-fi trade say to enthusiasts in order to appear knowledgeable and to impress them.

Do you seriously think it is going to make a real difference, really...*ROFL*

 
You're being unnecessarily combative here, whether it's right or wrong it doesn't really matter, FYI my old 685 manual did suggest connecting single wire to the HF section, while my dealer suggested playing around with connecting across left to LF and right to HF. You're right doesn't probably make a difference but doesn't excuse aggression.
 

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