C320BEE lacks punch?

[admin_exported]

Hey everyone

I know the C320BEE is a pretty respected amp so hope this doesn't seem bizzare that I'm posting this.

Having upgraded from a Cambridge Audio A5, I'm finding that bass lacks any punch. Don't get me wrong, the amp has power and goes (very) loud. To me, things like bass drums lack impact and weight. Adjusting the Bass control on the amp is useless and sounds terrible - makes the bass boomy and sounds like its adjusting too high a frequency.

A good example of this is Hotel California - Hell Freezes Over - The Eagles. When the drum kicks in at 0:32, it sounds very tight but almost as if the whole drum should be louder and have more of an impact. This isnt very technical but I could feel the impact a lot better with the CA A5.

Then when the rest of the music/instruments come in, the drum is almost lost in the music.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Anonymous]

As someone who usually leaves all EQ in the middle, I would fall back on my knowledge of EQ. If you usually crank the bass control on your other amp and its a certaan eq at a certain frequency e.g. shelving EQ at 100 hz when you do the same thing on a different amp it could well be a peaking /notch EQ at 75 hz the difference would be huge.

check this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization

p.s. I leave the EQ in the middle because you are either accentuating whats there, accentuating what isnt (does nothing) or taking it away. Either way you affecting the balance and probably losing a lot of "mid". At the end of the day its your choice but I dont wnat to ruin the mix after the producer engineer and mastering house has tweaked it to perfection.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks. EQ turned off (tone defeat on) on the C320BEE. Although I sometimes used the EQ on the Cambridge Audio A5, im pretty certain that with the Direct button pressed, it had more bass weight.

 

[manicm]

More proof tone controls are rubbish, ok I'm baiting here

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to say but it's the speakers which are not creating the necessary punch, your former amplifier was simply making the bass seem overblown and you took that to be a punchy sound, which is not so,

My advice is compare the NAD amp against the speakers you have and for instance the BR2's, then you will hear a big difference.

 

[Anonymous]

Im surprised you say the BR2 as I had considered these before purchasing the DM601s. I hadn't heard them but thought the bass wasn't as good.

My fathers Mission 780se speakers put out more bass and are far smaller. Not tried those with the NAD though...

 

[Anonymous]

If you are after a speaker with a very notable punchy bass, which is not overblown either, then I would look on ebay for the Mission M72's. I have heard both the DM 601's and BR2's and I have to say that the BR2's just have so much more life in them than the the B&W's. I would recommend you auditioning them with your amp if you can

.

They don't have as much bass as the M72's but are beautifully balanced and do sound very good, particularly it seems with NAD amplifiers.

 

[Anonymous]

jazzy639:
Hey everyone

I know the C320BEE is a pretty respected amp so hope this doesn't seem bizzare that I'm posting this.

Having upgraded from a Cambridge Audio A5, I'm finding that bass lacks any punch. Don't get me wrong, the amp has power and goes (very) loud. To me, things like bass drums lack impact and weight. Adjusting the Bass control on the amp is useless and sounds terrible - makes the bass boomy and sounds like its adjusting too high a frequency.

A good example of this is Hotel California - Hell Freezes Over - The Eagles. When the drum kicks in at 0:32, it sounds very tight but almost as if the whole drum should be louder and have more of an impact. This isnt very technical but I could feel the impact a lot better with the CA A5.

Then when the rest of the music/instruments come in, the drum is almost lost in the music.

Anyone have any ideas?

The A5 is an excellent amp for the money and is 60 watts per channel and the NAD is 50. Even though power isn't everything that sounds like a sideways step at best. If you use the tone controls and prefer the Cambridge I would have no hesitation in ditching the NAD.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Even though the NAD has only 50w per channel; it kicks well above that and will offer more control and a better overall soundstage than the C/A A5 amp.

I think the weak point in your system now are the B&W 601 speakers; good as they are, theyre not bass heavy and upgrading to the B&W 602 S2's or S3's, IMO, would solve this.

The Eagles isnt a great example of music though, more so with the B&W and NAD combo; the recordings have never been that good (unless youve got a re-mastered copy).

I've owned the NAD C320BEE amp and the C/A A5 amp and the NAD is so much better all round. I have also owned the above mentioned B&W speakers and know for a fact they'll improve your system straight away.

If you can accomodate floorstanding speakers; i'd say take a look at the Acoustic Energy AE Neo 3's on eBay. Can be bought for less than £200!

 

[matthewpiano]

'Hell Freezes Over' is pretty much a reference standard recording, so it can't be blamed on that.

I rate the NAD C320BEE/C325BEE amps very very highly and I agree that you could probably do with looking at your speakers as the necessary upgrade to get the bet out of your C320BEE. I'd be trying a pair of MS902is mounted on good solid stands with some Chord Company Carnival or Rumour speaker cable. The Rumour in particular will help you to gain plenty of low-down punch. Low-end punch and drive are one of the hallmarks of the NAD sound so it is worth perservering in my view.

However, I would also say that if your A5 is giving you the sound you want with the B&Ws, why change? The A5 gets a fair amount of stick but its actually a pretty good amplifier. Whenever I've slotted my old A4 in between upgrades I've always been pleasantly surprised by it.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry if this is off track, but Matthew, you've done a bit of kit swapping over the past few months haven't you from what I've seen on the forums - just wondering how you're finding the Quad 11Ls in your latest setup....

Julienne

 

[Anonymous]

Very true, sonically the Neo 3's blow the BR2's and the mentioned B&W's out of the water. To elaborate, on depth, scale, weight and authority there is no contest and in addition to which these speakers have excellent attack and timing. If you have room to place speakers about 0.5m from the rear wall and approximately 9 inches in from the side walls then these really would be a superb upgrade and at 201.00 (inc delivery) brand new on ebay, then they are not only a great speaker but a fantastic bargain price.

 

[Anonymous]

Words such as authority have very little to do with sound. All of this is also subjective and the the use of the word timing is total rubbish in any review of HIFI equipment.

 

[Andrew Everard]

shanemc: and the the use of the word timing is total rubbish in any review of HIFI equipment.

Bebecause...?

Oh and you left '...to sound good on radio' off the end of your statement about

shanemc:after the producer engineer and mastering house has tweaked it to perfection.

 

[Anonymous]

For goodness sake ...authority controlled sound but with great presence

Timing - Some speakers plod, they do sound out of sync with the sound, this one has great rhythm

 

[Anonymous]

I think everyone has jumpted the bandwagen blaming the DM601 S3s for the lack of bass. These are very good speakers, won numerous rewards, etc etc. They sounded excellent with the A5, I thought buying the C320BEE would only make them sound better.

As commented, Hell Freezes Over is an incredible album, its worth a listen. I'm not looking for bass heavy speakers, I just feel that the bass is too quiet. It's like the amp is bass shy.

This is a bedroom setup, there is no room for any larger speakers that what I've got. Unfortunately I cannot do a side by side comparison to verify what I think as I sold the A5 when I got the C320BEE. However, i'm 99% sure there is less bass, unnaturally less. Listenting through the Sennheiser phones or a pair of Sleek Audio IEMs shows more bass than whats there.

I'm not looking for lots of bass, just something that sounds right. With the A5, there were a few times where I plugged the port on the speakers as it sounded better.

Bottom line is, there was adequate bass with the A5, less with the C320BEE - I can't see how this can be the speakers. They are already big compared to the size of the room. They are about 1.6m apart, 70cm from back wall and I'm about 1.7m from the speakers (from the cones to my head). Its a small room, i'm close to the speakers.

I don't see why the speakers should be changed when the change of amp caused the issue.

 

[Anonymous]

As recommended, go to a dealers and compare the BR2' with the B&W's.

 

[Anonymous]

If after having done that, you still prefer the A5, sell the amp and buy another A5 from ebay

 

[Anonymous]

I know the C320BEE is a better amp. Its just better, thats what I keep telling myself. So going back to the A5 is like downgrading.

 

[Anonymous]

Lol seriously, if you prefer the sound from the A5 then go back to it, it's not a downgrade if the sound is preferable to you. However I know I keep bleating on about it but try it with other speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

"For goodness sake ...authority controlled sound but with great presence

Timing - Some speakers plod, they do sound out of sync with the sound, this one has great rhythm"

So authority is directly related to the upper register of frequencies? HMMMM ok

TIming some speakers sound out of sync with the sound? Are you saying they are out of sync with themselves? SO there is two events taking place? Hmm, ok again.

 

[Anonymous]

Lol I have nothing further to add if you are actually saying that some speakers lack in attack or dynamism, let me guess,,,all speakers are the same to.

You are truly arrogant and in a way it's funny but also very tireseome

 

[Anonymous]

Im glad you have nothing to add as your pseudoknowledge is a bore, dynamism isnt a word. All speakers are different depending on material used in cone and body etc and the type of crossover employed etc as well as size of cone, small cone are usually not so good for reproducing extremely low frequencies which is why subs have larger cones. You are putting words into my mouth.

 

[Anonymous]

I really have nothing further to say to you, you don't like the descriptions, tough

 

[Anonymous]

jazzy 639, I'm the owner of a NAD C320BEE. In my system, it sounds great, warm but not overly punchy. I'd have to admit that the speakers I use aren't big on bass, but what there is, the 320 controls well.

If the C320 doesn't suit your speakers, as seems to be the case, then you're right, you should think more about changing the amp than the speakers, especially as you seem to like the speakers a lot. The C320 isn't a better amp in the wrong system at all.