The blurb with my Abrahamsen amp and CD player tells me to 'burn it in' for 96 hours. I asked Abrahamsen about this and they say it can be done at an hour a time, any volume or setting but eventually I will notice quite a difference. Can anyone comment on this? It sounds strange! I would be particularly interested to hear if any of the other Abrahamsen owners have noticed any difference after said 96 hours? I'm still quite a way off that total yet.
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Burning in hifi components
- Thread starter Pavlo
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They do sound even better given time, I certainly noticed this after sending my original V2.0UP to Ivan at IPL to test. The new one I opened didn't sound quite as natural. It's back to the former glory of the original now! As to 96 hours, whether it actually improves, or it's a figment of my, or others imagination I cannot be certain. I shall enquire if there are any scientific measurable reasons for stating this. In the meantime just enjoy the improved sound! *music2*
Al ears
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Personally I've found that if it doesn't have valves in (and your doesn't) then the 'burn in' time is pretty much nonsense.
The more conspiracy-minded of us might say it is a cunning marketing ploy, implying future improvement, to stop you taking it straight back to the shop. 🙂
The more conspiracy-minded of us might say it is a cunning marketing ploy, implying future improvement, to stop you taking it straight back to the shop. 🙂
Electronic components suffer from infant mortality. If they are going to break, they will break early, or last a long time. 'Burning in' is a technique where a component (or complete product) is run at elevated temperature to encourage devices that would fail early in life to pack up immediately. This is used where warranty claims need to be managed or in 'mission critical' devices (jet engine controls, medical equipment etc etc) where failure has consequences. This has nothing to do with HiFi.
'Running in' is where a mechanical system changes in performance over time as mating surfaces wear together, or where the characteristics af a component change with use. This could apply to the mechanical components in a speaker - the compliance of the cone surround and voicecoil spider MAY change with use, and this MAY impact the speaker performance.
Applying the term 'burning in' to amplifier performance smells of snake oil.
'Running in' is where a mechanical system changes in performance over time as mating surfaces wear together, or where the characteristics af a component change with use. This could apply to the mechanical components in a speaker - the compliance of the cone surround and voicecoil spider MAY change with use, and this MAY impact the speaker performance.
Applying the term 'burning in' to amplifier performance smells of snake oil.
Indeed, however talking to the man from Atlas cable at the Bristol show he designed some of the Linn streamers, was saying cables form a directional well somthing, all to do with the diealetric, personelly I think he is wasted selling cables. I do however belive resistors and capacitors "settle down" in terms of slight movement of values when used and heat cycled.
I don't belive in it either. Think manufacturers put things like this on their products to discourage people returning them. Some say Dacs improve with burn-in, not sure about that, have not found that to be the case. I think most of the burn-in improvement is your hearing/brain adjusting to the new sound. Same with playing music for the first time, sometimes its jarring but then after a few plays you get used to it.
iQ Speakers said:
Perhaps a career on the stage would suit him better?
iQ Speakers said:
I am very impressed by your efforts with your speaker company, but with all due respect, I would stick to building speakers and leave the electronic design to others.
steve_1979
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I have an HND in electronics you know! And Cheers.
Indeed once worked for an ATE Load board manufacture for semiconductors, we also supplied burn in sockets to test and burn in semiconductors, we helped Motorola take their yield on 68000 CPU way up, now thats a long time ago!
Indeed once worked for an ATE Load board manufacture for semiconductors, we also supplied burn in sockets to test and burn in semiconductors, we helped Motorola take their yield on 68000 CPU way up, now thats a long time ago!
I worked for Commodore repairing PETs an 64's etc to component leval, I remember when the Amiga arrived in R&D it had a 3D bouncing ball on the screen we all stood in awe!
Can of worms this. There are some genuine reasons why some components will benefit from "run in" and others won't, but in most cases we've found (not surprisingly) that the biggest difference between the sound of something out of the box and run in is with speakers. The only omission to that rule for some odd reason is Focal - their speakers always manage to sound just as wonderful out of the box as they are when theyre run in - or could that just be my ears?!
matthewpiano
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Yep, my Rega RS1s improved quite significantly over the first 50 or so hours of use. Same with my Dynaudios too.
Covenanter
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matthewpiano said:
No you think they did!
Chris
PS Semi-conductors don't burn in, nor do resistors, some capacitors may..That's all!
Chris
Im.not sure about burn in but how do you explain what iq speakers said about listening to his abrahamsen amp then giving it to someone then putting on new unit. He said it did not sound natural. If he was alreay used to the sound he would not of heard any difference?????
Also in my experience i demod the hegel h160 mid range and top end sounded good from the off but something wernt right for me with the bass. On the one cold play disc i played ( and i know the song very well) the bass sounded very rough like a vibrating sound as if the speakers were being overdriven. Well after about an hour this totaly went away and it sounded very smooth and normal again. So i want to know whats all that about???
Also in my experience i demod the hegel h160 mid range and top end sounded good from the off but something wernt right for me with the bass. On the one cold play disc i played ( and i know the song very well) the bass sounded very rough like a vibrating sound as if the speakers were being overdriven. Well after about an hour this totaly went away and it sounded very smooth and normal again. So i want to know whats all that about???
Andrewjvt said:
There's a distinction between these "burn in" periods some manufacturers talk about and equipment getting up to working temperature.
Regardless of anything, if I'd spent a wedge on an amp, then they turned round and told me I had to wait for 96 hours or whatever for it to "sound right" I'd be a bit suspicious quite frankly. All that should be done before I receive it in my grubby mitts, just like any other piece of electronic equipment on the market.
Speakers, obviously different kettle of fish.
cheeseboy said:
This is what I've found. Most amps I've owned seldom sounded right when stone cold.
Just bought a laptop. Made sure I didn't type above 5 words per minute for the first couple of hours to let the processor burn in. After that I kept it down to 10 words per minute, just so the RAM and the I/O system could settle down. Now that I have been using it for 50 hours, I feel comfortable using it for web surfing, safe in the knowledge that the graphics processor is properly burnt in.
Claptrap? you bet. But no more so than the nonsense on this thread about burning in. The tolerances in a PC are hundreds of thousands of times more critical than an amp, yet the damn things work straight out of the box.
As cheeseboy points out however, temperature has a very significant effect on component performance. Critical electronic timing components are kept in temperature controlled 'ovens' to ensure that they remain stable, and 'thermal runaway', where an increase in temp causes a component to draw more current and in turn get hotter leading to ultimate failure is a well known problem.
Good designers design around thermal sensitivity, but it would not be impossible for an amp to have slightly different performance after it has reached a stable operating temperature.
Claptrap? you bet. But no more so than the nonsense on this thread about burning in. The tolerances in a PC are hundreds of thousands of times more critical than an amp, yet the damn things work straight out of the box.
As cheeseboy points out however, temperature has a very significant effect on component performance. Critical electronic timing components are kept in temperature controlled 'ovens' to ensure that they remain stable, and 'thermal runaway', where an increase in temp causes a component to draw more current and in turn get hotter leading to ultimate failure is a well known problem.
Good designers design around thermal sensitivity, but it would not be impossible for an amp to have slightly different performance after it has reached a stable operating temperature.
With the amp the difference in sound if any is minumal! It might be my imagination etc.
Semiconductors, typically military spec go in burn in ovens in special quick release burn in scokets and run, cycled in high tempratures to acceletrate failure if its going to occur. Nothing to do with sound.
Semiconductors, typically military spec go in burn in ovens in special quick release burn in scokets and run, cycled in high tempratures to acceletrate failure if its going to occur. Nothing to do with sound.
I remember several bench tests where amplifiers showed either decreased or increased distortion during warming up so something can clearly happen depending on design.
With my stuff, it's been a long time since I've actually tried to listen out for any changes but did think I could hear something slightly change within the first few seconds when I did. - However, I usually switch my stereo's on a couple or five minutes before I would listen 'seriously'. For background music it just comes on.
With my stuff, it's been a long time since I've actually tried to listen out for any changes but did think I could hear something slightly change within the first few seconds when I did. - However, I usually switch my stereo's on a couple or five minutes before I would listen 'seriously'. For background music it just comes on.
Electro
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Personally I don't worry about burn in , if you buy a piece of equipment that you like the sound of it will probably sound very good from first switch on and if it seems to improve after a few hours of use then that is a bonus *smile* .
The only thing I will say is that high bias class A/B amplifiers like the Abrahamsen do seem to sound a little better after an hour or two of use from switch on especially in a cold climate .
The only thing I will say is that high bias class A/B amplifiers like the Abrahamsen do seem to sound a little better after an hour or two of use from switch on especially in a cold climate .
steve_1979
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steve_1979 said:
Unfortunately not. Vaguely recall would have been more apt but it was probably HifiNews&RR/Paul Miller
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