Bluetooth vs AirPlay

[chebby]

Having recently changed from a Marantz system (with embedded AirPlay) to a Quad Vena with built-in DAC and Bluetooth (but no AirPlay) I am now considering whether to get an AirPort Express to have AirPlay back again.

I was going to use an ATV3 but I reckon support for it will drop off pretty rapidly now the new 4th gen one is here (without optical for audio) and it has way too much TV functionality that I don't need anyhow. (That's ok it's a TV device. Not complaining.)

That leaves the AirPort Express. That'll be £79 + Toslink --> Mini-Toslink cable to connect to the DAC in the Quad Vena.

The big question is whether this will sound better - for the money spent - than the integrated Bluetooth I am using now (not forgetting the extra cables and clutter if I added the AEX).

I can't exactly 'demo' an AirPort Express first.

 

[gwynne61]

I use one of these to stream Spotify premium from iPad to dac it works beautifully. It also extends wifi signal and has an optical out to connect to the dac

http://www.amazon.co.uk/DigiFunk%C2%AE-Wireless-Receiver-Compatible-Streaming/dp/B00IHGMGNI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1443623675&sr=8-2&keywords=Airmusic

 

[daveh75]

http://www.whathifi.com/comment/920216#comment-920216

 

[chebby]

http://www.whathifi.com/comment/920216#comment-920216

Indeed, but I hadn't thought of the AEX. (And it's nagging me that it may sound better than Bluetooth.)

I guess it's unlikely anyone has tried both given the iOS/AirPlay vs Android/Bluetooth 'divide'.

Thanks.

Think i'll get an AEX and just try it anyway.

 

[tino]

An interesting comparison would be to play Bluetooth audio from a source that supports the aptX codec. Unfortunately the iPhone / iPad does not, so you may not be taking advantage of the 'better quality' that is available using the Quad Vena (which supports both aptX and the bog standard SBC codecs)

 

[chebby]

I got lucky today when - on a whim - I went into our local branch of CeX and found an Airport Express 802.11n (1st gen) A1264 for £25 in excellent condition.

This version supports AirPlay and is the 'plugtop' form (that I prefer). It has the dual analogue/optical 3.5mm minijack/mini-Toslink connector so I have ordered a Toslink--> mini-Toslink convertor from Amazon which will arrive tomorrow. (I already have a Belkin 0.5m optical cable and ethernet cable in place (from the old Marantz).

I wil test it tomorrow after the convertor plug arrives.

The chap in CeX is ok about a return / refund if things don't work out.

 

[ID.]

I look forward to reading your impressions. While theoretically superior I suspect that in practice there won't be much in it, but as an AirPlay user I secretly hope you can reassure me that AirPlay blows Bluetooth away.

 

[chebby]

I look forward to reading your impressions. While theoretically superior I suspect that in practice there won't be much in it, but as an AirPlay user I secretly hope you can reassure me that AirPlay blows Bluetooth away.

I doubt there will be much in it either which is why I have been dithering about investing a (possibly non-returnable) £79 in a new AEX.

I'd almost let the matter rest again when - coming out of the bank yesterday - I saw the CeX shop opposite and remembered they often have computers and accessories for sale. It seemed almost spooky when I saw the AEX 802.11n and realised it was the correct version (A1264). The condition and the price swung it. The sales assistant's offer to refund if I wasn't happy was also a bonus. (This is 2nd hand gear after all).

I connected it to mains and ethernet then factory reset it (it was still called 'Steve') and configured it with Airport Utility last night as a client device - with AirPlay enabled - on my Airport Extreme home network.

Just got to wait for the wee Toslink --> mini-Toslink adapter to turn up. ('Out for delivery' according to the courier's tracker.) Unfortunately it is a bit 'foo' being made by Audioquest!

I hope it's not too posh to get on with the £3.88 Belkin optical cable it will be attached to

 

[davedotco]

I got lucky today when - on a whim - I went into our local branch of CeX and found an Airport Express 802.11n (1st gen) A1264 for £25 in excellent condition.

This version supports AirPlay and is the 'plugtop' form (that I prefer). It has the dual analogue/optical 3.5mm minijack/mini-Toslink connector so I have ordered a Toslink--> mini-Toslink convertor from Amazon which will arrive tomorrow. (I already have a Belkin 0.5m optical cable and ethernet cable in place (from the old Marantz).

I wil test it tomorrow after the convertor plug arrives.

The chap in CeX is ok about a return / refund if things don't work out.

Word of warning, the early model AEXs are not fully supported by the latest Airport Utilities.

You may well be able to get it to work but it may not be that straight forward. My series 2, (plug in dual band) is stable when in use, but drops offline rather more often than it should when not. Easy enough to fix, but a sign that it is getting 'old'.

 

[chebby]

You may well be able to get it to work but it may not be that straight forward. My series 2, (plug in dual band) is stable when in use, but drops offline rather more often than it should when not. Easy enough to fix, but a sign that it is getting 'old'.

I have had it switched on (and configured as a client) since yesterday evening (about 12 hours) and - using AirPort Utility on my iPhone - it's been there with a green 'light' on the diagram without any droppages yet. The light on the unit is also within direct line-of sight and i'd notice it flashing if it went offline between times. It's not happened yet.

If I am going to keep it long-term then i'll deal with the problem you describe when it occurs. Thanks for flagging it though.

It will live out in the open (not on a floor or buried amongst cables) so will be able to 'breath' and not get hot. (I've checked and it only just gets detectably warm.) My AirPort Extreme 802.11n is almost nine years old and still going strong, so fingers crossed.

 

[chebby]

The Toslink --> mini-Toslink adaptor has arrived and i've been listening via AirPlay and the AEX to some BBC R4 comedy on iPlayer Radio (a major plank of my daily listening).

I'll get around to some pop and jazz later and maybe some drama. (BBC radio version of 'Cold Comfort Farm' is always a favourite and great fun.)

Sounds good so far.

 

[jamesrfisher]

Chubby,

i also have have an original airport express. Which I use for some streaming. Do you use the iMac just for streaming or as your man computer or do you have another Mac? There is a work around so you can still use the old Airport Utility for the AEX as long as you still have it downloaded. I can't go through it now as away for the weekend but if need be can post it later in the week.

 

[davedotco]

I found my AEX to be virtually free of dropouts once you get it working correctly, I use both a Macbook and a iPad without playback issues.

I have 'been around the block' several times with this and the cardinal rule seems to be 'keep it simple'.

Much of the setup is automatic, normally best not to mess unless you have issues.

 

[chebby]

Thanks everyone. My AEX is working fine. It was very easy to setup with the latest AirPort Utility on my Mac Mini (with 'El Capitan'). No problems or dropouts so far.

@jumbofisher ...

I am not aware of needing any 'work-arounds' or older versions of AirPort Utility. I think that's for the previous Express model to mine.

It is not the oldest version but the 1st gen (A1264) 802.11n with AirPlay support.

I barely use the Mac Mini for streaming. It's basically just a host for my library for syncing to my iPhone 6 and iPad Mini 3 (both 128GB).

Everything happens on these two devices including BBC iPlayer Radio, my own iTunes content, Apple Music, Spotify, TuneIn Radio Pro etc.

 

[drummerman]

Chubby

Oh dear

 

[jamesrfisher]

Chubby

Oh dear

oops, autocorrect.

Yours is the second with AirTunes support, mine is the a1084. Yours was the first with n wifi. I need an older airport utility, glad you don't

 

[chebby]

It's really a bigger difference than i'd imagined it to be and a little scary that i'd almost 'settled' for Bluetooth (which still isn't too bad to be fair) out of sheer convenience.

I will rejig a couple of cables (one needs to be shorter, one a tad longer) and make this arrangement permanent now.

 

[ID.]

It's really a bigger difference than i'd imagined it to be and a little scary that i'd almost 'settled' for Bluetooth (which still isn't too bad to be fair) out of sheer convenience.

I will rejig a couple of cables (one needs to be shorter, one a tad longer) and make this arrangement permanent now.

Good to hear.

Now for the blind ABX testing and hand to hand combat to the death or it's all obviously in your imagination, right? J/K.

 

[chebby]

Now for the blind ABX testing and hand to hand combat to the death or it's all obviously in your imagination, right? J/K.

I can get the same content playing on both iPad Mini and iPhone simultaneously (one via Bluetooth and one via AirPlay) and switch sources on the Quad Vena's remote. (Or have someone else switch them for me after having first acquired a blindfold.)

'Someone else' would have to be my wife and she'd think the exercise idiotic!

I could ask a friend around to assist, but who does that? I'd be embarrassed to ask.

EDIT: I found out I can have both Bluetooth and AirPlay running on the iPhone simultaneously (simpler) so now I am just changing source almost instantly (as quickly as the Quad's relays will allow).

The iPhone also remembers the respective volume levels for both Bluetooth and AirPlay so I can tweak them to be the same volume - as far as my ears can detect without a decibel meter.

I am sure I am still hearing a difference with AirPlay seeming more open and detailed so far. I've been playing across genres with Canned Heat and XTC and Buddy Rich (bass on 'Cardin Blue' from Very Live at Buddys Place) and Joe Cuba ('Bang! Bang!') along with some music from iPlayer Radio (Trevor Nelson's programme) and even YouTube (Julio Iglesias' live version of 'La Mer' as featured in the 'Tinker Tailor ...' movie.)

I have been right across the cheese board in fact with highpoints like the Singing Nun ('Dominique') and My Boy Lollipop and some old Beat numbers ('Mirror In The Bathroom' particularly).

 

[ID.]

Thanks, Chebby.

Unless it's easy to do with the flick of a switch I can never be bothered with detailed tests looking for differences myself and I'm not going to try to rope my wife into it either.

 

[chebby]

Thanks, Chebby.

Unless it's easy to do with the flick of a switch I can never be bothered with detailed tests looking for differences myself and I'm not going to try to rope my wife into it either.

Well I got it down to being as easy as flicking between two sources on the Quad's remote. (Even though the two 'sources' were actually Bluetooth and AirPlay operating on the same iPhone.)

 

[chebby]

Grrrr.

After (too) much deliberation and a/b comparisons I think I am nowhere. Using the iPhone's decibel meter - at a fixed position - I found that I had erred in the AirPlay setup's favour quite a lot in volume without realising, so I spent a while getting that right. (The iPhone remembers the respective volume levels once set.)

Now the differences are 'arguable' at best and i'm pretty sure a blind comparison would fail.

I'll have another go later this evening when I am more relaxed and make a decision.

I'll keep the AEX (silly not to for what it cost) and find a use for it upstairs (range extender at least).

I hate this. It's like work. If I spend any more time on it I may as well build my own.

 

[Andy Clough]

Have to say I've completely given up on AirPlay, and nothing to do with sound quality. The number of dropouts I was getting at home made it almost unusable. Might be my set-up (second gen Airport Express and Apple TV) but it has never been robust.

 

[ID.]

Mine isn't too bad. The microwave is the main culprit causing dropouts. As I have an ATV it's not worth trying to set up another streaming solution.

 

[chebby]

Have to say I've completely given up on AirPlay, and nothing to do with sound quality. The number of dropouts I was getting at home made it almost unusable. Might be my set-up (second gen Airport Express and Apple TV) but it has never been robust.

I had AirPlay courtesy of a Marantz M-CR603 for four and a half years and it was bomb-proof. No complaints there.

No dropouts all weekend with the AEX either. (That would have ensured it's departure immediately.)

(No problems with Bluetooth either.)

No, this is purely a quality decision between AirPlay and what seems like a very well implemented Bluetooth.*

* Others seem to have noticed this ...

"We first connected Carolyn's iPhone wirelessly with BlueTooth at home we were captivated to the point of spending most of our evening in awe of what the Vena was doing with what some may tell you is a less than high end source and means of transmission. It's that good. Even now, we'd suggest you first try a Vena this way".

(And that would be without aptX because of the iPhone.)