Black Ravioli

[ifor]

Do any of the "fundamentalists" here now anyone that's colour blind? If you do, try telling that person that he/she can't see the view from the window any differently from you, because however you measure the light it's exactly the same for both of you.

We do not yet, and probably never will, fully understand the brain and the interestions between our senses.

I really want to edit out my typos, but the edit function seems to have disappeared.

 

[ifor]

Until then, if it looks like snake oil and tastes like snake oil then it is snake oil. If you want to buy it nobody is stopping you.

But who's to say that 'we' see and taste snake oil the same way. The brain is an amazing thing.

Back to the original point though, yes, ASA were quite right in their judgement because objective claims were being made that cannot be objectively substantiated. This shouldn't stop BR advertising effectively so long as they don't make such claims.

 

[The_Lhc]

I really want to edit out my typos, but the edit function seems to have disappeared.

You can't edit a post once it's been replied to.

 

[hammill]

But who's to say that 'we' see and taste snake oil the same way. The brain is an amazing thing.

I agree completely - I will never know if when I see the colour blue it is the same as when you see the colour blue. I am also perfectly happy to accept that other people can see/hear things i can't, but it should be reproducible that they can if it is being advertised

Back to the original point though, yes, ASA were quite right in their judgement because objective claims were being made that cannot be objectively substantiated. This shouldn't stop BR advertising effectively so lon as they don't make such claims.

Again, I agree.

 

[Anonymous]

I own 16 of the basic BR pads, they go under my CDP, my Pre, and my monoblocks.

For me they made a clear difference in a good way.

I don't even really care how they work. I do not open up my loudspeakers to see how they work either!

I also remember the last thread, and second that steve 1979 should do another test with the pads on the chassis.

 

[BenLaw]

Just a short postscript if I may - I have a friend who uses room tuning crystals, Shanti electromagnetic stabilisers, Harmonix feet, Cardas wood blocks to support his cables (they are rather thick and heavy )and all manner of doodads with his hifi, many of which some people would classify as voodoo BS. He's what I would call the quintessential tweaker and is always on the lookout for new tweaks.

But is he delusional? Maybe. Frankly though, who cares? His wife certainly doesn't and neither does he. It's his money and his ears - even if there really isn't a sound quality improvement, as long as he believes it's money well spent, then who am I to tell him he's wasting his money (or not)?

Although interestingly according to David's definition that guy is more into his music than someone who thinks all that stuff may be a bit silly, doesn't spend time researching, obtaining, comparing and discussing it, and listens to music through a straightforward system. Does everyone agree?

A criticsm often levied at "tweakers" (by the objectivists), is that they are more interested in messing about with their system than listening to the music.....so I read David's post as confirming that it's possible to be a tweaker and a music lover; rather than insinuating (because he did not make the remark directly) that the other group were not into their music to the same degree.

Anyway, I'm sure he will confirm what he meant.

David said 'The second group are those genuinely into music and hi-fi'. [/b]No insinuation, he's been very direct and divisive.

On this forum, I read the accusation that way round far more often than the other way round.

 

[Native_bon]

The hifi world is just like every other part of society am afriad. Some will use you, some will intimidate you... & some will just sale you rubbish.. Again its all down to listening as far as i am concerned. Some products are marketed very well, & when buying a product of that nature you expect great things... But sorry i always got my ears. & i trust them.

Example lastest eidition of Hifi choice did a group test of dacs ranging from 300 pounds to 1,500.. This included the Chord Qute HD at £990 & Audiolad M-dac £600.. The M-dac came tops in the group test while the Chord Qute has only 3stars!

Also in lastest edition of Hifi world the reviewer said the chord Qute is one the best sounding dacs he has ever heard.. I rest my case.

I for one still do not believe that 2 channel amps are far better than AV AMP!! The difference is so hard to notice sometimes that its not even worth the trobule. Everyone has the free will to say things the way they see it.. May be one day.. just may be one day, we shall know how we have been taken for a ride!!

I think we have to use are ears.. The problem being most of us as humans are followers. Even when are ears are telling us the truth we choose not to even believe are ears but what others tell us..

 

[CnoEvil]

I own 16 of the basic BR pads, they go under my CDP, my Pre, and my monoblocks.

For me they made a clear difference in a good way.

I don't even really care how they work. I do not open up my loudspeakers to see how they work either!

I also remember the last thread, and second that steve 1979 should do another test with the pads on the chassis.

It takes a brave man to put his head above the parapet on this thread, so I appreciate your support (again). Maybe I should now make 2 appointments to get medial help.

 

[ROTH AV]

I just got moderated and edited in a really weird way.

 

[Native_bon]

I have bought expensive speaker cables buy only got them cause I thought it was worth the asking price... It was on a 2month trial period.. But it still came down to my ears again. Always trust the two things sticking out both sides of ur head.. Simples!! Also i changed from a target hifi support to a quaddraspire support & noticed better performance from the latter. All down to my ears.

Thats not to say some stuff out there are just snake oil.

 

[Anonymous]

You have all that nice equipment and you cannot see the difference between an AV amp and dedicated stereo amp?

I have a decent AV amp (Sony STR 5400ES) bought for its apparent musicality. Now, I absolutely hate when people on internet forums use the term "night and day difference", but to my mind the differnence is absolutely night and day.

 

[CnoEvil]

I just got moderated and edited in a really weird way.

Were you in a Kebab shop?

 

[The_Lhc]

I just got moderated and edited in a really weird way.

Don't worry, I read it, it was funny but I guess the bit about licking vinyl in a floor covering shop (hmmm, strawberry...) could have been construed as a personal attack, given there are two people in this thread that have actually bought the product in question (BR, not vinyl flooring).

 

[Native_bon]

You have all that nice equipment and you cannot see the difference between an AV amp and dedicated stereo amp?

I have a decent AV amp (Sony STR 5400ES) bought for its apparent musicality. Now, I absolutely hate when people on internet forums use the term "night and day difference", but to my mind the differnence is absolutely night and day.

Well you see.. thats not to say all AV amps are like your sony AV amp!!..

 

[Frank Harvey]

Although interestingly according to David's definition that guy is more into his music than someone who thinks all that stuff may be a bit silly, doesn't spend time researching, obtaining, comparing and discussing it, and listens to music through a straightforward system. Does everyone agree?

I agree there will be people more into the equipment than the music, and that's fine, but personally I do think you have to be into the music to want your system to sound the best it can, by whatever means necessary. What's the point otherwise?

 

[ROTH AV]

Sometimes I have flashbacks to that night.

And it is one of those days.

 

[Anonymous]

You have all that nice equipment and you cannot see the difference between an AV amp and dedicated stereo amp?

I have a decent AV amp (Sony STR 5400ES) bought for its apparent musicality. Now, I absolutely hate when people on internet forums use the term "night and day difference", but to my mind the differnence is absolutely night and day.

Well you see.. thats not to say all AV amps are like your sony AV amp!!..

How do you listen to music. CD through your oppo blu ray plaer? and then through a £600 Marantz AVR?

And those through SF Cremona????

Total mismatch if ever I heard of one. Those are KILLER speakers. Why are you feeding them this way, its tantamount to cruelty.

I lived with music though my AVR for a year or two. Trust me, your speakers deserve far better and you are simply missing out. With equipment like that, no amount of Black Ravioli is going to make a jot of difference.

 

[ROTH AV]

Yeah - makes sense.

Nothing wrong with licking a bit of vinyl (or rubber) though.

I have a story about that too.

Doesn't involve a kebab shop but does involve dwaves again (different ones to the kebab shop night though).

 

[Native_bon]

You have all that nice equipment and you cannot see the difference between an AV amp and dedicated stereo amp?

I have a decent AV amp (Sony STR 5400ES) bought for its apparent musicality. Now, I absolutely hate when people on internet forums use the term "night and day difference", but to my mind the differnence is absolutely night and day.

Well you see.. thats not to say all AV amps are like your sony AV amp!!..

How do you listen to music. CD through your oppo blu ray plaer? and then through a £600 Marantz AVR?

And those through SF Cremona????

Total mismatch if ever I heard of one. Those are KILLER speakers. Why are you feeding them this way, its tantamount to cruelty.

I lived with music though my AVR for a year or two. Trust me, your speakers deserve far better and you are simply missing out. With equipment like that, no amount of Black Ravioli is going to make a jot of difference.

Cause I use my ears.. I dnt care what anyone thinks.. I only care of what sounds good to my ears!! I dnt seem o have a problem with it.. Have you heard my system..?

 

[CnoEvil]

Yeah - makes sense.

Nothing wrong with licking a bit of vinyl (or rubber) though.

I have a story about that too.

Doesn't involve a kebab shop but does involve dwaves again (different ones to the kebab shop night though).

I'd like to see what you might end up doing with some BR!! :shifty:

 

[Singslinger]

Slightly off-topic but for luxury products pride of ownership plays a big part. Consider the simple wrist watch. There's no way a mechanical watch lIke a Patek or Rolex will keep better time than a quartz-powered Seiko or Casio yet when many people are asked to name a good watch, I'm pretty sure they're more likely to mention one of the high-end Swiss brands than a much cheaper Japanese brand.

Why would anyone pay a massive premium for a Rolex (an entry level model costs about £3000) when a Seiko costing under £100 keeps better time, ie measures better, offers more features and is so much cheaper to maintain? My guess is pride of ownership that comes from clever marketing. People will buy into the company's history, heritage etc or they are fans of the celebrities that endorse the watch (Tiger Woods, Roger Federer). In the case of Patek there's an aura of exclusivity as well, the company only makes about 50,000 watches per year compared to Rolex, which produces almost one million annually.

But whatever the reason, you cannot use rational analysis to explain the purchase decision, ie you cannot tell a prospective Rolex buyer that he's wasting his money and he'd be better off with a Seiko because it will keep better time than the Rolex.

I think when it comes to high-end audio, a similar emotional response will apply - people will pay big bucks for pride of ownership, even if the claimed sonic superiority cannot be measured scientifically.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cause I use my ears.. I dnt care what anyone thinks.. I only care of what sounds good to my ears!! I dnt seem o have a problem with it.. Have you heard my system..?

...but don't you have your eye on a lovely Electro amp?

 

[Native_bon]

Cause I use my ears.. I dnt care what anyone thinks.. I only care of what sounds good to my ears!! I dnt seem o have a problem with it.. Have you heard my system..?

...but don't you have your eye on a lovely Electro amp?

Yes of course i do.. But am ok for now.

 

[Anonymous]

You may not care what anyone thinks but you do presumably care about and enjoy music.

In that case, please take this advice, it is genuinely meant.... go to a local dealer that does higher end hi fi, or wherever you got your cremonas from. Tell them, you use an AVR and people say, a dedicated stereo amp is better. Please can they show you what a decent stereo set up sounds like, as you might be interested in a decent stereo amp if you like what you hear.

Now... you have nothing to lose by following that advice, and quite a bit to gain.

Thats all im saying, and I mean it in a friendly way.

You have all that nice equipment and you cannot see the difference between an AV amp and dedicated stereo amp?

I have a decent AV amp (Sony STR 5400ES) bought for its apparent musicality. Now, I absolutely hate when people on internet forums use the term "night and day difference", but to my mind the differnence is absolutely night and day.

Well you see.. thats not to say all AV amps are like your sony AV amp!!..

How do you listen to music. CD through your oppo blu ray plaer? and then through a £600 Marantz AVR?

And those through SF Cremona????

Total mismatch if ever I heard of one. Those are KILLER speakers. Why are you feeding them this way, its tantamount to cruelty.

I lived with music though my AVR for a year or two. Trust me, your speakers deserve far better and you are simply missing out. With equipment like that, no amount of Black Ravioli is going to make a jot of difference.

Cause I use my ears.. I dnt care what anyone thinks.. I only care of what sounds good to my ears!! I dnt seem o have a problem with it.. Have you heard my system..?

 

[Anonymous]

On another forum I saw a picture of them decommissioning a submarine and it really does look like there are pads of BR coming off it!