Bitter truth about HiFi home systems

[stereoman]

I have been thinking about it for some time and finally I decided to post here my outragous philosophical piece of writing about this wonderful hobby which is HiFi. As having been an audiophile, for many many years, unfortunately or fortunately I've come to this nasty conclusion. To be happy with your HiFi is like winning a lottery. Let me please state here some facts. First of all, imperfect technology or imperfect engineering of HiFi components. Indeed. We live in 2017. The amps have been on market for decades, yet how much they are really improved ? After all these years almost 80% of all mid budget ones sound like crap. It is a fact. CD players have improved significantly though but what about speakers ? With all this today's technology - again like with amps - 80% sound crap. Please take a breath and look at this point now. Let us start with all the reviews from WHF for example. How many loudspeakers in the last decade received 5/5 ? In comparison to those poor quality ones receiving 2 or 3 stars ? Definitely a smaller percentage. Out of these 5/5 LSs huge percent are beyond "normal budget". The same situation with amps. Can you go easily to any shop and straight off pick up an amp for 500 $ and be happy with it for years and years to come ? Almost impossible. Why ? Because they are simply not good. You have a choice. You can shell out for a better one for 1500$ or more. What about synergy ? Will it be good at home with the rest of the components ? Risk involved. I have also noticed that on almost each HiFi forum there are more dissatisfied users than those who are very satisfied with their systems. It all boils down to frustration. How much money do you need to spend to be really satisfied , is it possible ? Room acoustics, sound too bright, sound too muffled, not enough bass, too much bass and so on....constant system changes. What point does it make ? It all is only a case in point how difficult it is to build , buy and be glad with the sound. To be honest with you, the last good sound I heard cost about (from up) 5000 $ with no guarantee it coulld sound as good at home. The other in music studio when they deployed Focal monitor LSs with good amps. As much as I love this hobby and am personally very glad with my own system ( Leema , Cyrus , Yamaha ) I need to say much of the time of searching for right components was big frustration. Can you agree ? Here is also a link that inspired me sometime ago.

http://www.indiespinzone.com/other/highend.html

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I have been thinking about it for some time and finally I decided to post here my outragous philosophical piece of writing about this wonderful hobby which is HiFi. As having been an audiophile, for many many years, unfortunately or fortunately I've come to this nasty conclusion. To be happy with your HiFi is like winning a lottery. Let me please state here some facts. First of all, imperfect technology or imperfect engineering of HiFi components. Indeed. We live in 2017. The amps have been on market for decades, yet how much they are really improved ? After all these years almost 80% of all mid budget ones sound like crap. It is a fact. CD players have improved significantly though but what about speakers ? With all this today's technology - again like with amps - 80% sound crap. Please take a breath and look at this point now. Let us start with all the reviews from WHF for example. How many loudspeakers in the last decade received 5/5 ? In comparison to those poor quality ones receiving 2 or 3 stars ? Definitely a smaller percentage. Out of these 5/5 LSs huge percent are beyond "normal budget". The same situation with amps. Can you go easily to any shop and straight off pick up an amp for 500 $ and be happy with it for years and years to come ? Almost impossible. Why ? Because they are simply not good. You have a choice. You can shell out for a better one for 1500$ or more. What about synergy ? Will it be good at home with the rest of the components ? Risk involved. I have also noticed that on almost each HiFi forum there are more dissatisfied users than those who are very satisfied with their systems. It all boils down to frustration. How much money do you need to spend to be really satisfied , is it possible ? Room acoustics, sound too bright, sound too muffled, not enough bass, too much bass and so on....constant system changes. What point does it make ? It all is only a case in point how difficult it is to build , buy and be glad with the sound. To be honest with you, the last good sound I heard cost about (from up) 5000 $ with no guarantee it coulld sound as good at home. The other in music studio when they deployed Focal monitor LSs with good amps. As much as I love this hobby I need to say - 80% of time is only a frustration. Can you agree ? Here is also a link that inspired me sometime ago.

http://www.indiespinzone.com/other/highend.html

I agree the hobby is like a lottery

i spent years trying to get the combination right and always getting it wrong until I brought the Yamaha and Dali speakers but I've wasted lots of money over the years .

its hard to give advice in what components are good because they might be good for me but not for you it's a funny old hobby we have and probably the biggest money pit too

 

[abacus]

There are 2 types of Hi Fi buyers, those that take their time to find the right combination before purchase, (They only then upgrade when a new technology (Streaming is the latest) comes along, or an item fails) the other type are those that take notice of reviews as they believe if a reviewer finds it good they will, (A complete nonsense as everybody is different) and consequently end up swapping and changing all the time. (You appear to be in the second category)

There are also 2 types of sound that people look for, some look for something that sounds nice to them, (But in most cases is not very accurate) and those that want something to be as accurate as possible, (If it’s a bad recording then it sounds like a bad recording) and I would say you’re in the 1st category.

Price has nothing to do with quality, which is why a pro amp gives a more accurate sound than most Hi Fi amps at 5 (Or more) times the price; unfortunately they are usually not domestically acceptable looks wise. (I suspect you’re more influenced by name and price rather than sound accuracy) Another problem is that many manufactures of expensive Hi Fi amps colour the sound to get their house sound, hence it makes it more difficult to match to other equipment than an accurate (Straight wire with gain) amp.

Regarding CDs, then the DACs have improved considerably over the years, however if your CD player has a digital out, (Even if its 10 or 15 years old) then connect to a decent DAC for about £200-300 (Again go for a pro one, not a Hi Fi one) and it will easily better most of the £2000-3000 Hi Fi CD players currently on the market. (Price has never related to quality)

In the end, just buy what you like, (After taking the time to choose) then sit back and enjoy the music. (Forget the rubbish spoken by Hi Fi mags (WHF is particularly bad in this respect) otherwise you will just change for changes sake)

Bill

 

[stereoman]

I have been thinking about it for some time and finally I decided to post here my outragous philosophical piece of writing about this wonderful hobby which is HiFi. As having been an audiophile, for many many years, unfortunately or fortunately I've come to this nasty conclusion. To be happy with your HiFi is like winning a lottery. Let me please state here some facts. First of all, imperfect technology or imperfect engineering of HiFi components. Indeed. We live in 2017. The amps have been on market for decades, yet how much they are really improved ? After all these years almost 80% of all mid budget ones sound like crap. It is a fact. CD players have improved significantly though but what about speakers ? With all this today's technology - again like with amps - 80% sound crap. Please take a breath and look at this point now. Let us start with all the reviews from WHF for example. How many loudspeakers in the last decade received 5/5 ? In comparison to those poor quality ones receiving 2 or 3 stars ? Definitely a smaller percentage. Out of these 5/5 LSs huge percent are beyond "normal budget". The same situation with amps. Can you go easily to any shop and straight off pick up an amp for 500 $ and be happy with it for years and years to come ? Almost impossible. Why ? Because they are simply not good. You have a choice. You can shell out for a better one for 1500$ or more. What about synergy ? Will it be good at home with the rest of the components ? Risk involved. I have also noticed that on almost each HiFi forum there are more dissatisfied users than those who are very satisfied with their systems. It all boils down to frustration. How much money do you need to spend to be really satisfied , is it possible ? Room acoustics, sound too bright, sound too muffled, not enough bass, too much bass and so on....constant system changes. What point does it make ? It all is only a case in point how difficult it is to build , buy and be glad with the sound. To be honest with you, the last good sound I heard cost about (from up) 5000 $ with no guarantee it coulld sound as good at home. The other in music studio when they deployed Focal monitor LSs with good amps. As much as I love this hobby I need to say - 80% of time is only a frustration. Can you agree ? Here is also a link that inspired me sometime ago.

http://www.indiespinzone.com/other/highend.html

I agree the hobby is like a lottery

i spent years trying to get the combination right and always getting it wrong until I brought the Yamaha and Dali speakers but I've wasted lots of money over the years .

its hard to give advice in what components are good because they might be good for me but not for you it's a funny old hobby we have and probably the biggest money pit too

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO. The bitter truth, is in fact to do with the way people buy HiFi systems. Classic errors include:

- Star chasing and buying hifi like you would a dishwasher.

- Ignoring (or not being aware of) lesser known brands, which are often better....this means doing a lot of research.

- Not using knowledgeable specialist dealers, but large chains....or worse....internet box shifters.

- Not taking the time to listen to enough brands and different designs (eg. Valves vs Hybrid vs AB vs A vs D; or Metal vs Silk Dome; CD vs Streamer vs Vinyl).

- Getting fixated on measurements to the exclusion of musical enjoyment.

- Lack of understanding on how room acoustics effect the sound and the importance of correct speaker set up.

Putting together a system for playing music in a way that you love, is as individual and subjective as buying art, chosing clothes, or the colours you paint your rooms. Unless you are lucky, this requires a lot of effort....and the more you are spending, the more effort you should put in.

People are often lazy and want someone to tell them what is best....and when they come on here, are surprised to find the range of conflicting advice/opinion that they get.

 

[CnoEvil]

Price has nothing to do with quality, which is why a pro amp gives a more accurate sound than most Hi Fi amps at 5 (Or more) times the price; unfortunately they are usually not domestically acceptable looks wise.

I would argue that price is no guarantee of quality, but quality usually increases with price...and that, as prices get higher and higher, VFM usually gets lower and lower.

 

[stereoman]

There are 2 types of Hi Fi buyers, those that take their time to find the right combination before purchase. (You appear to be in the second category)

Hello. Oh no...not really. My end point is always to demo and to choose the sound I like no matter how good the review. The review helps though to go and demo it. BUT what I mean here - pls get me right - is the sound comparison. As a musician, I spent the other day a bit of time in recording studios. Believe me that what we hear - generally - on our HiFi systems is so far away from being the true sound of the original studio recording. For example, I had few occasions to hear original mastersound of the album in a recording studio. Bear in mind that the same album that you try to reproduce at home is like apples and oranges in this case. Really in most of the cases. This is first. Second is - no one expects of course to have a total reproduction of studio sound at their homes. Of course, but the components quality on the average is unacceptable most of the time for our times. I mean sound/price ratio. In last few decades we should be offered immaculate sound reproduction with a mid range budget. We do not live in 50s or 60s. But it's not happening. As Blacksabbath25 stated - sometimes and I can agree - it takes years to find a perfect synergy.

 

[stereoman]

IMO. The bitter truth, is in fact to do with the way people buy HiFi systems. Classic errors include:

- Star chasing and buying hifi like you would a dishwasher.

- Ignoring (or not being aware of) lesser known brands, which are often better....this means doing a lot of research.

- Not using knowledgeable specialist dealers, but large chains....or worse....internet box shifters.

- Not taking the time to listen to enough brands and different designs (eg. Valves vs Hybrid vs AB vs A vs D; or Metal vs Silk Dome; CD vs Streamer vs Vinyl).

- Getting fixated on measurements to the exclusion of musical enjoyment.

- Lack of understanding on how room acoustics effect the sound and the importance of correct speaker set up.

Putting together a system for playing music in a way that you love, is as individual and subjective as buying art, chosing clothes, or the colours you paint your rooms. Unless you are lucky, this requires a lot of effort....and the more you are spending, the more effort you should put in.

People are often lazy and want someone to tell them what is best....and when they come on here, are surprised to find the range of conflicting advice/opinion that they get.

Of course. Absolutely. But what I also mean is that the mid budget HiFi components should be nowadays riskproof in terms of customer satisfaction and good sound repro. Let me explain a bit more. Some great companies like - Cyrus or Leema, Harbeth, Yamaha etc. - are constantly striving to offer great sound repro for a very good price. This technology can be easily trickled down to Comet like shops around. But it is not happening. Right ? The other example I have noticed and what seems to be a good one is that many people here are posting a question regarding choosing the loudspeakers according to their musical taste. I only shake my head when I read this. I do not blame those people asking for an answer I just easily notice what they are expecting and not getting it. I mean, no matter what kind of music you listen to - a good loudspeaker needs to reproduce your best kind of music as good as any other one, metal , dance or calssical. Some state that this or this LS is better with jazz and not good for metal or the other way round. This is a case in point. It's because this particular LS is simply not good enough or not properly engineered. Most of the time the component quality is much more below average. That really should not be happening in - as said - our times with such developed technology. Of course, thanks God we have many profi companies that produce great HiFi but it is all known to us , the savvy audiophiles and even us, we also can spend years for searching for this perfect reproduction with all our knowledge. Some time ago I thought this is a beauty of it. Maybe it is...but I defintely personally prefer not to look for years That is why so many thanks goes to the great niche companies who understand the good sound reproduction and strive to produce sth at least PROPER SOUNDING.

P.S. Pls notice that this "problem" for some reason is not regarding other pieces of technology. Like TVs or Computers where the user purchase satisfaction is very high. Almost every second TV nowadays offers excellent quality no matter what price. I myself - in comparison to audio - never complained about "nowadays" TV picture etc. as many of them offer excellent quality. That seems not to be with audio. Interesting.

 

[ellisdj]

You cant really compare video to audio.

Audio Systems have a much harder job than video systems - Much Harder.

In fact I think the stereo system using the terms loosely has one of the hardest jobs of all home entertainment electronics, and it has to work in conditions that are completely wrong for it.

Its not always bad engineering of products as the cause for non satisfactory sound.

 

[Electro]

You cant really compare video to audio.

Audio Systems have a much harder job than video systems - Much Harder.

In fact I think the stereo system using the terms loosely has one of the hardest jobs of all home entertainment electronics, and it has to work in conditions that are completely wrong for it.

Its not always bad engineering of products as the cause for non satisfactory sound.

I agree .

 

[ChrisIRL]

Kef LS50 wireless go a long way towards addressing most of the issues highlighted in this thread. They do so for a not unreasonable price when you break them down to the individual components you get, not to mention the components they remove from the equation.

 

[CnoEvil]

- What brings customer satisfaction is hard to quantify, as it depends on the market you are after. The hardened audiophile wouldn't be seen dead getting their system in Currys....and the likes of Currys will only stock stuff they can shift, given the type of customer who shops there.

- Personally, I do think certain speakers lend themselves to certain types of music eg. Harbeth for Jazz, Classical and Acoustic. If this is your sole diet, then there is nothing wrong with slanting your system to this end. Not having a speaker that will make the most of Drum n' Bass will be irrelevent to Mac, as he almost never listens to it.

- IMO. (and I'm talking generally here) It is all too easy to fall into the trap of thinking that one's own view, is the correct one. Everyone has to find their own path....and it's all too easy (and expensive) to go down a Cul de Sac.

 

[stereoman]

You cant really compare video to audio.

Audio Systems have a much harder job than video systems - Much Harder.

In fact I think the stereo system using the terms loosely has one of the hardest jobs of all home entertainment electronics, and it has to work in conditions that are completely wrong for it.

Its not always bad engineering of products as the cause for non satisfactory sound.

Yes I understand. It makes more sense why it so difficult to find this elusive synergy maybe.

 

[stereoman]

Kef LS50 wireless go a long way towards addressing most of the issues highlighted in this thread. They do so for a not unreasonable price when you break them down to the individual components you get, not to mention the components they remove from the equation.

Thank you for recommendation. It's not that I am not personally dissatisfied. I can also give good credit for my system and especially great Leema Acoustics that I am absolutely glad with. The point is how difficult it is to search and find a perfect system for yourself and that it can take up to many years to find sth suitable what can bring frustration in the process.

 

[Samd]

Kef LS50 wireless go a long way towards addressing most of the issues highlighted in this thread. They do so for a not unreasonable price when you break them down to the individual components you get, not to mention the components they remove from the equation.

Thank you for recommendation. It's not that I am not personally dissatisfied. I can also give good credit for my system and especially great Leema Acoustics that I am absolutely glad with. The point is how difficult it is to search and find a perfect system for yourself and that it can take up to many years to find sth suitable what can bring frustration in the process.

Isn't it just a parallel with so many other walks of life? Buying cars, for example. My needs as a teenager (no comment please!) were a starting point; changed with marriage and children and many other times between; I now need a tank to tow my tin shed. If hifi is important to you your increasing years will bring about changes in your requirements; hearing levels etc.

 

[nopiano]

What the vast majority of those buying audio seem to want is a speaker or two like a Sonos. Something to play from their phone or tablet, not too big, or ugly.

Once you get to the tiny minority who consider buying "hifi" it is easy to think some gear suits this or that music better, or that you need to speak in a peculiar way! I do wonder what buyers expect, and whether those expectations are derived from experience of live musical events. Many new posters here seem to be upgrading from desktop speakers or soundbars.

As to your opening thoughts, I don't think amplifiers have necessarily improved hugely in sound, though most are much more reliable and quieter. Fitting good speakers into a typical home is still a challenge though. Yours are very compact, but most need plenty of room.

 

[tino]

Here is also a link that inspired me sometime ago.

http://www.indiespinzone.com/other/highend.html

I stopped reading the article when I read "... The fact is a record is pretty much the pinnacle of recorded sound".

 

[bigfish786]

I've been using decent audio equipment, in that time I've learned quite a bit.

and my honest opinion is that over 90% of people's gripes about their stuff is purely down to bad setup, browse through facebooks many hifi qroups, and you'll see photos of equipment crammed into tiny spaces, speakers bundles wherever they will go, turntables on top of speakers, "vintage" (eBay) crap that cost a fiver balanced on top of isolation platforms that cost more than the hifi did!

The list of stupidity is infinite.

Lesson one in hifi should always be optimise setup. Whether it cost 100's or thousands. Set it up properly. Create the soundstage. Then take it from there.

 

[drummerman]

I have been thinking about it for some time and finally I decided to post here my outragous philosophical piece of writing about this wonderful hobby which is HiFi. As having been an audiophile, for many many years, unfortunately or fortunately I've come to this nasty conclusion. To be happy with your HiFi is like winning a lottery. Let me please state here some facts. First of all, imperfect technology or imperfect engineering of HiFi components. Indeed. We live in 2017. The amps have been on market for decades, yet how much they are really improved ? After all these years almost 80% of all mid budget ones sound like crap. It is a fact. CD players have improved significantly though but what about speakers ? With all this today's technology - again like with amps - 80% sound crap. Please take a breath and look at this point now. Let us start with all the reviews from WHF for example. How many loudspeakers in the last decade received 5/5 ? In comparison to those poor quality ones receiving 2 or 3 stars ? Definitely a smaller percentage. Out of these 5/5 LSs huge percent are beyond "normal budget". The same situation with amps. Can you go easily to any shop and straight off pick up an amp for 500 $ and be happy with it for years and years to come ? Almost impossible. Why ? Because they are simply not good. You have a choice. You can shell out for a better one for 1500$ or more. What about synergy ? Will it be good at home with the rest of the components ? Risk involved. I have also noticed that on almost each HiFi forum there are more dissatisfied users than those who are very satisfied with their systems. It all boils down to frustration. How much money do you need to spend to be really satisfied , is it possible ? Room acoustics, sound too bright, sound too muffled, not enough bass, too much bass and so on....constant system changes. What point does it make ? It all is only a case in point how difficult it is to build , buy and be glad with the sound. To be honest with you, the last good sound I heard cost about (from up) 5000 $ with no guarantee it coulld sound as good at home. The other in music studio when they deployed Focal monitor LSs with good amps. As much as I love this hobby I need to say - 80% of time is only a frustration.  Can you agree ? Here is also a link that inspired me sometime ago.

http://www.indiespinzone.com/other/highend.html

 

I agree the hobby is like a lottery 

i spent years trying to get the combination right and always getting it wrong until I brought the Yamaha and Dali speakers but I've wasted lots of money over the years  .

its hard to give advice in what components are good because they might be good for me but not for you it's a funny old hobby we have and probably the biggest money pit too 

Aahh, the new system is always the best one ... until a few minor niggles become an irritant.

Then it's on to the the next new best system

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I agree with bigfsh about people poorly setup there hifi and cramming there speakers right in the corners and next to glass patio sliding doors thats amazing when you consider they may have spent loads of money on those floor standing speaker sitting there next to glass .

the other factor is when you first start in this hobby when you buy you first ever amplifier and speakers and you start getting interested and your buy the magazines and pick up stuff . And then the bug kicks in that first amplifier and speakers are now no good anymore yes you old gear will play music but that knowing that if I upgrade I will get a better sound then what I had . ( I think we will call that the hifi ladder )

I know it's been said on here before but I am a great believer in you get what you pay for I found when i got back into hifi again after not having a hifi for quite sometime so when I got back into the hobby again I went to richer sounds and I chose the marantz PM6005 + cd6005 + Dali Zensor 3s for a start it sounded very good for the first 12 months and then I started thinking what if I changed for something a bit better and before long it was the Marantz PM8005 + cd8005 + Dali Zensor 3s this time i like the marantz setup but the speakers were to blame .

so along came the Dali opticon 6s which changed things again and then it was time to change amplifier + cdplayer for the abrahamsen 2up and its matching cdplayer again trying to climb the ladder .

but even after awhile the cdplayer never worked properly out of the box I liked the amplifier but had it with poor customer service and getting stuck with something that if it broke I could not get it fixed so unless that cottage industry has excellent customer service and very good warranty do not bother . But at the time of owning the abrahamsen I had the chance to upgrade my speakers without losing any money and got the Dali opticon 8s .

then I went to a local hifi shop not far from me and brought the Yamaha A-S2100 and its matching cdplayer this is when I realized I found the perfect match to go with my Dali opticon 8s just wish I could turn the clock back and buy the Yamaha from the start and the speakers .

i think the problem lies with budget gear if you get into the hobby the budget gear is not as good as waiting and saving your money to buy quality components around the £1000 - 3000 mark or secondhand because it will save you money in the long run if you wait and do your homework .

its a great hobby it makes me happy I would be dangerous if I won the lottery *smile*

 

[Gray]

Best to just put things into perspective. When compared to (decent) live music, all hi-fi reproduction is a compromise. None of us have tried everything, so in that sense none of us know what we're missing!

The best we can do is to:

1) Choose well - Find the compromise(s) we can live with.

2) Set up well - Don't add compromises.

3) When it sounds good, be content - Easier said than done eh?

 

[steve_1979]

To be happy with your HiFi is like winning a lottery.

Yey! I've won.

 

[CnoEvil]

Star chasing and buying hifi like you would a dishwasher.

When I buy a dishwasher I always like to ask for advice on dishwasher forums first so that I can draw up a short list of possible options. Then I want to try out several different models in at least a couple of different shops so that I can narrow it down to the best two or three dishwashers in my price range. Next I take those two or three dishwashers home to see how they perform in my my own kitchen and to make sure they have a good synergy with my pots an pans. This is part is preferably done while wearing a blindfold (or so I'm told). Finally once I've made a purchase I like to try it with a few different mains cables to see what effect that might have on the cleaning performance.

Isn't this the way that everyone buys washing machines? Or am I doing something wrong?

Just get an Active Dishwasher if you want the best performance. *dirol*

 

[stereoman]

I agree with bigfsh about people poorly setup there hifi and cramming there speakers right in the corners and next to glass patio sliding doors thats amazing when you consider they may have spent loads of money on those floor standing speaker sitting there next to glass .

the other factor is when you first start in this hobby when you buy you first ever amplifier and speakers and you start getting interested and your buy the magazines and pick up stuff . And then the bug kicks in that first amplifier and speakers are now no good anymore yes you old gear will play music but that knowing that if I upgrade I will get a better sound then what I had . ( I think we will call that the hifi ladder )

I know it's been said on here before but I am a great believer in you get what you pay for I found when i got back into hifi again after not having a hifi for quite sometime so when I got back into the hobby again I went to richer sounds and I chose the marantz PM6005 + cd6005 + Dali Zensor 3s for a start it sounded very good for the first 12 months and then I started thinking what if I changed for something a bit better and before long it was the Marantz PM8005 + cd8005 + Dali Zensor 3s this time i like the marantz setup but the speakers were to blame .

so along came the Dali opticon 6s which changed things again and then it was time to change amplifier + cdplayer for the abrahamsen 2up and its matching cdplayer again trying to climb the ladder .

but even after awhile the cdplayer never worked properly out of the box I liked the amplifier but had it with poor customer service and getting stuck with something that if it broke I could not get it fixed so unless that cottage industry has excellent customer service and very good warranty do not bother . But at the time of owning the abrahamsen I had the chance to upgrade my speakers without losing any money and got the Dali opticon 8s .

then I went to a local hifi shop not far from me and brought the Yamaha A-S2100 and its matching cdplayer this is when I realized I found the perfect match to go with my Dali opticon 8s just wish I could turn the clock back and buy the Yamaha from the start and the speakers .

i think the problem lies with budget gear if you get into the hobby the budget gear is not as good as waiting and saving your money to buy quality components around the £1000 - 3000 mark or secondhand because it will save you money in the long run if you wait and do your homework .

its a great hobby it makes me happy I would be dangerous if I won the lottery *smile*

Very well stated. Completely true. Let me a bit clarify my point. Maybe my opening thoughts were a bit too harsh. But I hope all got the gist of it. So again HiFi Hobby is a wonderful thing just as much as music itself is. The other thing is - patience. Audiophiles need to have an enormous amount of patience. To begin with new speakers run-in time and to end with overall synergy and balance. As the other things concerned like positioning, the size room vs speakers etc. , I do not agree. After all those years my system played as good in every different home environment as ever. Be it against glass windows, in the corners etc. of course always tried not to pack my turntable on the speakers though ! There are limits and this is crazy indeed. But again, a good setup, believe me, will always sound good no matter what. You can only upgrade it slighty with better stands, positioning etc. but the very core of it will remain unchanged. What I referred to at the begining of my first post here was the limitation of the professional audio trickle down technology in today's world in popular chain shops. Of course we savvy audiophiles know more or less the proper reproduction and know what components we hunt for. An average customer never had a chance to listen to a proper HiFi audiophile system so they have no clue and comparison to the studio recording and go for Sonos or Bose sound with their exaggerated bass and exposed treble for the sake of anything else. I'm only saying that many good HiFi engineers must also be musicians to some extent because they create fantastic components. Others still go for mass production. That is why you buy sth mass produced without the musical heart and precision and after a short while you look for sth different. But also I noticed how many audiophiles have different listening criteria - the components of the system that you love can be totally rejected by another audiophile and vice versa. Maybe that is also reason why it is so hard to find a golden rule that suits all. Maybe it is extemely hard to achieve ? Still I believe in good engineering and that I can personally confirm with many niche audiophile companies who produce great stuff. For this sake we can here also read about new coming up MQA codecs - studio sound quality in our home. Interesting.

 

[stereoman]

then I went to a local hifi shop not far from me and brought the Yamaha A-S2100 and its matching cdplayer this is when I realized I found the perfect match to go with my Dali opticon 8s just wish I could turn the clock back and buy the Yamaha from the start and the speakers .

Yes, I know AS2100 is a great sounding amp. Thinking between Leema, Cyrus or AS1100 in future. All offer excellent sound quality. Apart from great Leema loudspeakers I never heard Leema amps though and wish I could have a listen to them. AS1100 is really tempting...