Benefit of a streamer?

[The_Lhc]

I bought an external soundcard for my laptop the other day, specifically for playing music, only to find it doesn't support 16-bit 44kHz output (I kid you not), so I can't use it with WASAPI and Foobar! That's the kind of stupid ******* irritating, idiotic, ****-kicking, window-licking sort of bollocks that you have to put up with when using PCs and is exactly the reason why I don't want one in my living room attempting to play music for me. I've had my Sonos for over 5 years and I've never had one single issue with it (I'm fully expecting to go home this evening to find it all in a smouldering heap now of course!).

So you didn't bother to read the product capabilities before you bought it?

No, you're right, beyond the general guff on the webpage I didn't delve into the detail of what sample rates it did or didn't support (and probably wouldn't have realised the implications for WASAPI even if I had if I'm honest) but you kind of expect standard CD quality to be a given with these things, especially with the emphasis given to audio quality in said guff.

Hardly the fault of the Pc or the equipment.

No but you miss the point (more on that in a second), it is however the fault of the PC that with 4GB of RAM and a quad-core processor it still isn't capable of playing simple audio without stuttering just because I happen to have a number of webpages open in Chrome, that's just pathetic!

The point, however, is that with my dedicated streaming solution (Sonos) I don't have any of those concerns, I just press play. That's it. It sounds like a cliche but when I bought the bundle (two zoneplayers and a remote control) it *LITERALLY* (and I mean that literally) took me longer to unbox the components than it did to get them working and they've never stopped working since that day. That's worth a lot of money and I paid less for them than for a top end Media PC.

 

[The_Lhc]

If, as is argued, that most people already have such mobile devices, and their use is so simple, then there is no need for a standalone dedicated streamer, stream from the mobile device by simply adding a Sonos or AEX/ATV and you're good to go.I don't consider the Sonos a dedicated streamer, more part of a streaming ecosystem.

A dedicated streaming ecosystem. Sonos doesn't do anything else, it just plays music, it couldn't get any more dedicated and it's definitely a streamer. I'm sorry but I think you've got your wires crossed here.

No, not at all. I consider a dedicated standalone streamer as someting that can be plugged in and operated straight out of the box without any accessories. A Sonos device needs other Sonos devices or remotes added for full functionality.

Err, no, one Sonos device will operate by itself quite happily. I'm not aware of any streamers that don't come with a remote, so I'm not sure what your point is? It's entirely possible to run a Sonos zoneplayer without a remote at all if you choose to push audio to it using DNLA (which is possible, although not exactly supported but it works fine). The only thing the Sonos would then need to do is change volume and you can do that using the buttons on the unit itself, which seems to meet your criteria.

 

[cheeseboy]

No but you miss the point (more on that in a second), it is however the fault of the PC that with 4GB of RAM and a quad-core processor it still isn't capable of playing simple audio without stuttering just because I happen to have a number of webpages open in Chrome, that's just pathetic!

your pc sounds utterly screwed to be honest!

 

[iMark]

IMHO a dedicated streamer system made by a specialized audio company could work.

We can agree there then, as that's what is being debated. You might think my SBT doesn't count, and I'd have thought the same until I heard it!

Of course it could. But there would be a lot of things to consider before it would beat my MacBook + Airport Express + DAC + iPad remote control in SQ, usability and backup options.

First of all you need decent software for ripping, catalogueing and playback. Furthermore you would have to think of a backup plan in case the hard drive in your streamer concoction would die. And then you would have to think of upgrading options. People have very critical of Apple for creating a walled garden. In fact ALAC is now a standard supported by other makers and if I wanted I could convert all my current ALAC files to FLAC if I wanted to change my environment.

Another thing to consider is the possibility to upgrade your WiFi environment if standards change. With bog standard equipment there is always room for upgrades and improvements. A decicated streaming device means you will be locked in to that particular brand. It's utterly laughable that a company like Cambridge Audio produces a streaming device that doesn't even support ALAC files, to give just one example.

 

[The_Lhc]

No but you miss the point (more on that in a second), it is however the fault of the PC that with 4GB of RAM and a quad-core processor it still isn't capable of playing simple audio without stuttering just because I happen to have a number of webpages open in Chrome, that's just pathetic!

your pc sounds utterly screwed to be honest!

Of course, it's a PC, that's the default state. I mentioned it to the windows expert here at work the other day, he suggested it needs a complete rebuild. What a load of nonsense! I don't mean he's wrong, I mean it's nonsense that something like that should be necessary.

 

[iMark]

Hardly the fault of the Pc or the equipment.

No but you miss the point (more on that in a second), it is however the fault of the PC that with 4GB of RAM and a quad-core processor it still isn't capable of playing simple audio without stuttering just because I happen to have a number of webpages open in Chrome, that's just pathetic!

[/quote]

That sounds like a rubbish PC of very bad wifi. My 5 year old MacBook with 2GB of RAM and a dual core processor is perfectly capable of streaming music without any problems, even while browsing the internet or doing other things.

 

[cheeseboy]

Of course, it's a PC, that's the default state. I mentioned it to the windows expert here at work the other day, he suggested it needs a complete rebuild. What a load of nonsense! I don't mean he's wrong, I mean it's nonsense that something like that should be necessary.

not necessarily. Totally depends on the user. some people will click *anything* and then they wonder why their pc is screwed when they've allowed half the internet access to ti and it's being used to relay spam to half of china In those instances a rebuild is faster than a fix.

In the meantime, get a copy of linuxmint, put it on a usb stick and run that. you'll probably find most of your issues solved and you've not had to rebuild anything (tongue in cheek by the way, but if you have a spare 5 minutes, try it!)

 

[The_Lhc]

Of course it could. But there would be a lot of things to consider before it would beat my MacBook + Airport Express + DAC + iPad remote control in SQ, usability and backup options.

There aren't really, using the same DAC it'll sound exactly the same.

First of all you need decent software for ripping, catalogueing and playback.

So do you.

Furthermore you would have to think of a backup plan in case the hard drive in your streamer concoction would die.

So would you.

And then you would have to think of upgrading options. People have very critical of Apple for creating a walled garden. In fact ALAC is now a standard supported by other makers and if I wanted I could convert all my current ALAC files to FLAC if I wanted to change my environment.

My streamer supports both already.

Another thing to consider is the possibility to upgrade your WiFi environment if standards change. With bog standard equipment there is always room for upgrades and improvements.

Most streamers can have additional formats added through firmware updates, which is almost exactly the same as you downloading a new codec to support another format.

A decicated streaming device means you will be locked in to that particular brand.

No, not necessarily, most of them are using standard protocols and using a Linn streamer (just by way of example) doesn't mean you have to use a Linn DAC or something.

It's utterly laughable that a company like Cambridge Audio produces a streaming device that doesn't even support ALAC files, to give just one example.

That is poor but it doesn't mean the same applies to all streamers.

 

[BigH]

No but you miss the point (more on that in a second), it is however the fault of the PC that with 4GB of RAM and a quad-core processor it still isn't capable of playing simple audio without stuttering just because I happen to have a number of webpages open in Chrome, that's just pathetic!

your pc sounds utterly screwed to be honest!

Of course, it's a PC, that's the default state. I mentioned it to the windows expert here at work the other day, he suggested it needs a complete rebuild. What a load of nonsense! I don't mean he's wrong, I mean it's nonsense that something like that should be necessary.

Who made this PC? So we can avoid them.

 

[The_Lhc]

Hardly the fault of the Pc or the equipment.

No but you miss the point (more on that in a second), it is however the fault of the PC that with 4GB of RAM and a quad-core processor it still isn't capable of playing simple audio without stuttering just because I happen to have a number of webpages open in Chrome, that's just pathetic!

That sounds like a rubbish PC[/quote]

It's a Dell but it's the same hardware as all the others underneath.

of very bad wifi.

Nice try but this is just playing audio stored on the internal HDD!

My 5 year old MacBook with 2GB of RAM and a dual core processor is perfectly capable of streaming music without any problems, even while browsing the internet or doing other things.

Ok, open up 35 webpages, most of which are running Javascript or annoyingly big animated adverts and let me know how it gets on.

 

[The_Lhc]

Of course, it's a PC, that's the default state. I mentioned it to the windows expert here at work the other day, he suggested it needs a complete rebuild. What a load of nonsense! I don't mean he's wrong, I mean it's nonsense that something like that should be necessary.

not necessarily. Totally depends on the user. some people will click *anything* and then they wonder why their pc is screwed when they've allowed half the internet access to ti and it's being used to relay spam to half of china

I'm not one of those people though.

In the meantime, get a copy of linuxmint, put it on a usb stick and run that. you'll probably find most of your issues solved and you've not had to rebuild anything (tongue in cheek by the way, but if you have a spare 5 minutes, try it!)

It's more faff though isn't it? It's not that I couldn't (I'm a UNIX system administrator), I just can't be bothered when I've got a perfectly good streaming system working perfectly well at home (I only use the laptop for listening to music at work, my phone does a better job of it!). That's kind of my point. All that effort and buggering about, just to listen to a few tunes.

 

[BigH]

It's a Dell but it's the same hardware as all the others underneath.

of very bad wifi.

Nice try but this is just playing audio stored on the internal HDD!

OK I looked Dell, their cheap PCs are good value no doubt but if you want anything special they are very inflexible with their options and if you want high grade stuff like SSD and high Ram then prices are expensive, I went to Scan computers who were cheaper and better spec,, come with decent sound cards, video cards as standard or you can upgrade at decent price. I think Dell are built down to a price so you may get a good processor but they will cut down on other components and then do sneeky things like not supplying the Windows software disk unless you pay extra.

 

[BigH]

As for speeds I can play anything, the only thing that is slow is this forum sometimes. I can even have a large 1 GB photoshop image open and play spotify or whatever, your guy at work is maybe right it needs sorting out.

 

[The_Lhc]

It's a Dell but it's the same hardware as all the others underneath.

of very bad wifi.

Nice try but this is just playing audio stored on the internal HDD!

OK I looked Dell, their cheap PCs are good value no doubt but if you want anything special they are very inflexible with their options and if you want high grade stuff like SSD and high Ram then prices are expensive, I went to Scan computers who were cheaper and better spec,, come with decent sound cards, video cards as standard or you can upgrade at decent price. I think Dell are built down to a price so you may get a good processor but they will cut down on other components and then do sneeky things like not supplying the Windows software disk unless you pay extra.

I wouldn't have thought anything "special" would be required just to play some music, if quad core and 4GB of RAM isn't cutting the mustard then I'm not convinced the peripherals are going to be important.

To be honest, it does what I want it to do perfectly adequately and that's view webpages and do the odd Excel spreadsheet. I just expected it be able to play a couple of songs without struggling as well. Too much to ask for though apparently.

 

[cheeseboy]

It's more faff though isn't it? It's not that I couldn't (I'm a UNIX system administrator), I just can't be bothered when I've got a perfectly good streaming system working perfectly well at home (I only use the laptop for listening to music at work, my phone does a better job of it!). That's kind of my point. All that effort and buggering about, just to listen to a few tunes.

Let's be honest, you're not interested in getting the issue sorted, you just want to whinge don't you?

 

[Overdose]

No but you miss the point (more on that in a second), it is however the fault of the PC that with 4GB of RAM and a quad-core processor it still isn't capable of playing simple audio without stuttering just because I happen to have a number of webpages open in Chrome, that's just pathetic!

your pc sounds utterly screwed to be honest!

Of course, it's a PC, that's the default state. I mentioned it to the windows expert here at work the other day, he suggested it needs a complete rebuild. What a load of nonsense! I don't mean he's wrong, I mean it's nonsense that something like that should be necessary.

Perhaps it isn't? I'd say the fault is more likely to be with the operating system than the hardware anyhow. Does the onboard sound chip not function?

 

[BigH]

It's a Dell but it's the same hardware as all the others underneath.

of very bad wifi.

Nice try but this is just playing audio stored on the internal HDD!

OK I looked Dell, their cheap PCs are good value no doubt but if you want anything special they are very inflexible with their options and if you want high grade stuff like SSD and high Ram then prices are expensive, I went to Scan computers who were cheaper and better spec,, come with decent sound cards, video cards as standard or you can upgrade at decent price. I think Dell are built down to a price so you may get a good processor but they will cut down on other components and then do sneeky things like not supplying the Windows software disk unless you pay extra.

I wouldn't have thought anything "special" would be required just to play some music, if quad core and 4GB of RAM isn't cutting the mustard then I'm not convinced the peripherals are going to be important.

To be honest, it does what I want it to do perfectly adequately and that's view webpages and do the odd Excel spreadsheet. I just expected it be able to play a couple of songs without struggling as well. Too much to ask for though apparently.

But you say you can't even play a track and have a few pages open? And it does not support the 16bit files? For music I would have a SSD. Did you get the Windows disk? One reason why I would never buy a Dell again, had so much trouble with my last PC.

Why did you buy a quad core with 4GB for surfing the net?

 

[The_Lhc]

It's more faff though isn't it? It's not that I couldn't (I'm a UNIX system administrator), I just can't be bothered when I've got a perfectly good streaming system working perfectly well at home (I only use the laptop for listening to music at work, my phone does a better job of it!). That's kind of my point. All that effort and buggering about, just to listen to a few tunes.

Let's be honest, you're not interested in getting the issue sorted, you just want to whinge don't you?

Partly but I would like to get it sorted, I just don't want to have to go through the rigmarole of a complete system re-installation to do it. It's not a big enough problem for me to go through all that, just a minor irritation, I just get annoyed at the things in general though, like why the hell does the phone sync software on this thing need to be using nearly 300MB of RAM? That's nuts, it does nothing for 99% of the time it's running and wastes 300MB!

 

[The_Lhc]

No but you miss the point (more on that in a second), it is however the fault of the PC that with 4GB of RAM and a quad-core processor it still isn't capable of playing simple audio without stuttering just because I happen to have a number of webpages open in Chrome, that's just pathetic!

your pc sounds utterly screwed to be honest!

Of course, it's a PC, that's the default state. I mentioned it to the windows expert here at work the other day, he suggested it needs a complete rebuild. What a load of nonsense! I don't mean he's wrong, I mean it's nonsense that something like that should be necessary.

Perhaps it isn't? I'd say the fault is more likely to be with the operating system than the hardware anyhow. Does the onboard sound chip not function?

I think it's a driver issue of some sort, the onboard chip does function but playing back any audio, be it local files (flac or mp3), spotify (free, so only low bit-rate), youtube video, videos on the BBC website, gives this regular stutter (every ten seconds or so), coinciding with a blip of CPU usage up to about 10-12% from the virus-scanner (although even if you disable the virus-scanner the issue still persists).

 

[cheeseboy]

Partly but I would like to get it sorted, I just don't want to have to go through the rigmarole of a complete system re-installation to do it. It's not a big enough problem for me to go through all that, just a minor irritation, I just get annoyed at the things in general though, like why the hell does the phone sync software on this thing need to be using nearly 300MB of RAM? That's nuts, it does nothing for 99% of the time it's running and wastes 300MB!

Yup, some software is an absolute (insert rude word here).

I would however recommed updating all the drivers - if the music is stuttering, sounds like could be a driver issue.

Just make sure you do the chipset drivers as these can cause all sorts of wierdness!

edit - you beat me to it. At least that's one thing dell is good at, finding the drivers on their website

 

[Overdose]

I think it's a driver issue of some sort, the onboard chip does function but playing back any audio, be it local files (flac or mp3), spotify (free, so only low bit-rate), youtube video, videos on the BBC website, gives this regular stutter (every ten seconds or so), coinciding with a blip of CPU usage up to about 10-12% from the virus-scanner (although even if you disable the virus-scanner the issue still persists).

I just don't get on with Windows. Not much use to you I guess, but I prefer Linux for these things. Each operating system has its pros and cons, but Windows should work a lot better than it does given its cost.

Perhaps there is some other settings work around?

 

[BigH]

Things like the iplayer is notorious for having problems that is more to do with BBC bandwidth and your ISP and broadband speeds than your pc I would say.

Sounds like you have some serious issues though even my old Dell (7 years old) with 1GB ram runs bettter than your one.

Ifind Win 7 much better than XP, shuts down in 5 secs and opens in about 10 secs not minutes like before. Could upgrade to Win 8 for £15 but did not bother as that seems more for mobile/ipads/touch screens than PC based monitors.

 

[The_Lhc]

But you say you can't even play a track and have a few pages open?

Few=close to 40... Chrome is using over 2GB of RAM at the moment.

And it does not support the 16bit files?

Sorry, my fault, that's a separate issue, the onboard sound card supports every bit and sample rate I could want but stutters with playback, it's the external USB sound card I bought that only supports 16bit-48kHz or 96kHz or 24-bit 48/96 kHz (so no support for 16bit 44kHz CD quality audio if using WASAPI).

For music I would have a SSD. Did you get the Windows disk? One reason why I would never buy a Dell again, had so much trouble with my last PC.

No, I didn't get a windows disk.

Why did you buy a quad core with 4GB for surfing the net?

It was the best spec for the money that I was prepared to pay, I do a bit of gaming on it occasionally but mainly because I'd used lesser spec machines and been very irritated at waiting for them to do anything, so I was happy to over spec it to get smoother performance. I also wanted the option of being able to do a bit more with it if I wanted to, I just haven't really needed to do much else with it.

 

[The_Lhc]

Partly but I would like to get it sorted, I just don't want to have to go through the rigmarole of a complete system re-installation to do it. It's not a big enough problem for me to go through all that, just a minor irritation, I just get annoyed at the things in general though, like why the hell does the phone sync software on this thing need to be using nearly 300MB of RAM? That's nuts, it does nothing for 99% of the time it's running and wastes 300MB!

Yup, some software is an absolute (insert rude word here).

I would however recommed updating all the drivers - if the music is stuttering, sounds like could be a driver issue.

Just make sure you do the chipset drivers as these can cause all sorts of wierdness!

edit - you beat me to it. At least that's one thing dell is good at, finding the drivers on their website

You'd think so wouldn't you but the sound card driver is 4 years old and completely up to date apparently! That was the first thing I looked at!

 

[The_Lhc]

Things like the iplayer is notorious for having problems that is more to do with BBC bandwidth and your ISP and broadband speeds than your pc I would say.

I thought that initially but it doesn't explain the local file issue, nor the fact that the other people in the office have no such problems and I can stream the same thing using my phone without any slowdowns or stuttering.

Sounds like you have some serious issues though even my old Dell (7 years old) with 1GB ram runs bettter than your one.

Like I said, in general use, it's fine, it's just this one issue with audio that's got me stumped.

Ifind Win 7 much better than XP, shuts down in 5 secs and opens in about 10 secs not minutes like before. Could upgrade to Win 8 for £15 but did not bother as that seems more for mobile/ipads/touch screens than PC based monitors.

My neighbour's got Win 8 on his new laptop, wtf is that all about? :O